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I've tried to stay out of this but I feel I need to post an opinion.
For starters, I believe that this is a sight dedicated to support foster and adoptive parents. If this is the case, I don't understand why we spend so much time on posts meant to hurt each other's feelings and belittle the efforts that the families here are making. Anyone here who is either a foster or adoptive parent is to be commended. It isn't an easy task to take in, raise, and love children that are not your own, whether they stay with you or not.
We approached our state program with the intent of being strictly adoptive parents and were not interested in an infant. We found information from the state saying that there were "hundreds of waiting children that desperately needed homes." We had the money, we had the space, and we had plenty of love to share with these children, and none of our own, so we went to orientation. Mistakenly(?) the agency assigned us a foster care worker instead of an adoptive worker for our home study. I had reservations because of the issue of loss but she talked to us about how there was a hold on home studies for adoptive parents and that a large number of foster children are adopted byt their foster parents if there is a tpr.
We thought about it and decided that this would be a great way to have children in our lives. We could help out kids who needed it and in the meantime enjoy having them with us. We hoped that eventually things would work out for us and the right time and children would come for us to adopt. We have had several children come and go very quickly. We had a 12 year old boy with us for 2 years and he just left us. At the time he was placed with us, we were told that his mom would never be able to take care of him again, but a few months later things looked up for her and we have never treated him any differntly one way or the other. We even picked mom up and drove her on visits so that they could see each other.
We now have a sibling group who's parents are not living. They are 8 and 11. These kids have been with us for almost a year and we are hoping to adopt soon. If it were not for foster/adoptive parents, what would anyone suggest should happen to these kids? Is it the right thing to do, to take them from their home and send them to live with strangers who have paid to adopt them? OR, is it better to let them live with and get to know a family who will love them and that they love?
Just as we say that children are not property to be "stolen" from their family, they are also, not property to be abused, neglegted, or sold to the highest bidder.
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Gee--child care is not cheep---and what would she do if she had to take leave?
I don't feel that parenting is a RIGHT and I do not feel that everyone who wishes to parent should have the right to adopt. I am sorry about the fact that some can get pregnant and I am not sure I like that any more....
I was a 21 year old mom of two and our household income was 40,000 a year in the 80's and we ended up bankrupt with children to care for....My older children did NOT have all the things I wanted to provide them with....they did not do all the things I wished they could have done...When the choice was dinner or little league we chose dinner...
I will NEVER raise children in poverty again...I would not have adopted unless my husband earned the kind of income that would allow me to be the kind of mother I want to be....
Many families who are in poverty are the families who have children in foster care--while poverty is not the reason to lose your child it is the cause of deep stress and can lead to very bad family situations.... It is hard to not be abusive when you cannot keep the lights on....or when you life is all about making ends meet.
$20,000 a year is not enough money to support a cat--I do not feel a person has the right to adopt a child into poverty.
It is simply not the same thing to compaire birth and adoption...The bold fact is adoption takes much more then average people and is not a sex act it is a conscience choice.... The standards need to be much higher for adoptions...Sorry that is just the way it is....
Not trying to be inflammatory here, but people need to consider the fact that $20,000 in the big city is not the same as $20,000 in small-town-middle-America. For example, my brother-in-law's home, approximately the same size as mine, was recently appraised at 1/3 (!) the value of mine (his being located in a small town and mine being located in Houston city limits). Making broad sweeping statements about how much money someone needs to make in order to qualify to raise a child properly is not only ridiculous, it's classist.
jodybird, I agree wholeheartedly. I live in a small midwestern town where on $20,000 a year a small family can live modestly and still have their child involved in activities such as little league. The cost of living varies greatly across the country. It also varies from person to person depending in each person's personal values
I live in Kansas and there are income guidelines for adopting and fostering. Dawn, I can only tell you I had a single friend who put it ALL except for $3,000 that she had saved on credit cards. Then when she got the $10,000 she paid it off. This was of course after finalization.
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The federal poverty level for a family of two in 2003 was $12,120, so $20,000 for a family of 2 isn't the federal poverty level, but I can tell you, here in rural America, where I live, $20,000 isn't enough money to raise a child and not be poor.
Of course it's classist, well, more accurately incomist (class and income aren't the same). But as Anna said, adoption isn't the same as giving birth.
And the person who raised the $20,000 threshhold lives in New Jersey, where I find it difficult to imagine one could live alone for that kind of money without subsidies from the state.
I only used $20,000 as a figure of what I thougth a low income individual would make that may still want to be a parent.
The bottom line was that because of the high cost of adoption (there is another long post on that starting up now too) many people are now being directed to try the foster/adopt system looking to add to their families as an alternative. They are willing to foster/adopt even with all the heartaches that it may bring, the ones that I have met are not being dihonest, they want the best for the kids, but they want to parent them forever very bad.
Originally posted by ArmyWife55
NO MATTER WHAT I WANT, i will do whats best for that child.. and i will support that child's right to live with his/her bio mom and dad IF THEY CAN TAKE CARE OF THEIR CHILD.
I totally agree!! My conflict of emotions comes in when I know I can to better then them! Even on a good day most of these kids struggle. I know I can provide something better then "adaquate". How do you combat those feelings?
I don't know if you can combat them. You may just have to learn to control them. It is hard knowing you can give them "better" but the truth is if the bio family is adequate and they are returned to them there is nothing you can do. That is why fostering to adopt is so hard in my opinion. They were born to the biological family and that is just the way it is. I am not trying to be harsh, just truthful.
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Goodness, such a big thread to read all at once. A great discussion. I'd like to add a few things.
About the infant domestic adoption and the cost behind it, I'd like to say that a pap puts out all that money without any guarantee that they will receive a baby. Some don't get matched, some have bmom's who change their minds about placing, and some have to wait for years and years. It's not right to have to spend TENS of thousands of dollars to have a baby and it's VERY different than spending money for the birth of your bio child.
About the ASFA being pased to help the older child who's spent years in limbo, that's true, but it also benefits the infant, placed in a loving home, which is willing to adopt the child after tpr, bc the baby doesn't need to be moved around through other homes. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to foster-adopt an infant.
It really makes me sad to see so much division between foster parents, foster-adopt parents, and adoptive parents. I hear so many "straight adoptive" parents say that they went that route bc they couldn't handle the heart-break of "losing" a child, but then bash the foster parent who hopes to adopt their fc. YES, we know the risk when we go into fostering in the hopes of adopting, but that doesn't mean we can't hope to adopt our fc!
There is NOTHING a foster parent can do to NOT support reunification efforts! WE have NO power in the decision of the fc going back to biofamily. WHAT can we do to sabatogue RU efforts? NOTHING! We are NOT the decision makers!
You can not compare having a child, who was already tpr'd and placed in your home for adoption (but still technically a fc) with having a child placed in your home who has not had a tpr. The risk of losing the latter child is HIGH, no matter what cw's say. The judge could make ANY decision that they choose. They do not have to go by DCFS recommendation nor abide by ASFA. In addition, biofamily is allowed to come out of the woodwork at ANY given time!
That said, we have had two failed adoptions (straight fc) and have had over 20 children placed as foster children. One child we lost on tpr appeal, to an aunt who came forward after 20 months. We told DCFS that we were in fc to adopt. We now have four kids who will never leave. I would do it again, and recommend it to others, but I would warn of the risks.
I beg to differ. I have seen reunification efforts sabotaged by FPs. I live in KS and the FPs have a GREAT deal of input. They are the ones that hear what goes on visits, how a child behaves at visits, how the BP is when they pick up and drop off, some even testify in court. It is very easy to sabotage reunification efforts, fill the childs head, be hateful to the BP, make mountains of molehills etc. etc. There are also things to do to support reunification help the BP get resources, encourage the bond, help with visits, etc. It can go both ways!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>They are the ones that hear what goes on visits, how a child behaves at visits, how the BP is when they pick up and drop off, some even testify in court. It is very easy to sabotage reunification efforts, fill the childs head, be hateful to the BP, make mountains of molehills etc. etc. There are also things to do to support reunification help the BP get resources, encourage the bond, help with visits, etc. >>>
Here we are required to provide documentation about what the child's behaviors are before, during, and after visitations. We have to tell the workers about any problems the child has in day care or school. We are not required nor encouraged to help the bp's get resources. There are homebuilders who do that. We are not involved with visits (most of the time).
Fp's should not be filling the child's head with untruths, nor should the fp's be hateful to the bp's, but those things can not go against RU. RU in determined first by the DCFS workers, with input from the lawyers, and then by the judge. What kind of influence does the fp have in Kansas?
Are you a fp or adoptive parent?
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Leca im sorry to hear that. Here we also have nothing to do with visits. The cw are in charge and there when we drop of the kids. we just come by, chat a little with the bparents and leave, same with picking them up. I think leaving a foster parent responsable for the visits is a conflict of interest. Everybody raises their children diffrently. The bparent might be doing nothing wrong just differently then the foster parent does things and to some people that is a big deal and to them it is abuse or neglect. Some people believe in spanking and some dont. To some its abuse and to some it is not. Maybe they dont mean sabotage, maybe to the foster parents it is something seriouse and a big deal. Here we also have nothing to do with reunification that is the decision of the court, we just be supportive even if we dont agree.
I know this has nothing to do with the conversation, but be careful helping too much the bparents. A lot of bparents depend on others too much. They need to learn to get their own jobs and their own rides. If they dont learn they might get back in position they were in the first place and their children back in foster care.
I am licensed to foster but have never and will not until my kids are grown and gone. We are not required to help the BP with resources etc but I know alot that do. We have a shortage of workers here and I know alot of FP's that arrange visits and meet BPs halfway or take the kids to the BPs house. This is not required but these are just very involved FP's. One lady I know even invits ** to all the kids ballgames. She has a great relationship with her. If the kids go home she knows she will still get to see them. But one of my friends wants to adopt the fosterkids at any cost and is constantly undermining mom and sabotaging reunification!