infertile vs not infertile couples

Best laid plans... love that line :) lol Sex is always a risk IMO. To find out after using precautions that you are experiencing infertility, I cant imagine that pain. I've never used a birthcontrol, so each time I've had sex was always a risk. (condoms but no hormones, just dont believe in it for me, though feel every woman has her own choice to make). Always a risk. And in fact each time I became pregnant, I wasnt using anything. Very risky. Both times in monogomous relationships and not using protection for over a year. I was seriously wondering before I had Karma if I was infertile. As a 15-16 year old girl, almost hoping I was. Each time I got by period, was relief followed by shock! Should have learned then to use a condom. Karma's dad thought maybe it was him, and after a while we didnt even worry about pregnancy, then there we were, pregnant. With Josh, we so rarely did anything that we felt the likelyhood of pregnancy was slim, besides in some sort of sick deranged way, him and I wanted a child together even knowing we wouldnt raise the child... maybe I'm nuts :)

I suppose I must admit that you are right, every time a person has vaginal intercourse, there is a chance of getting pregnant. The chance of getting pregnant while on doctor controled birth control (paragard or mirena IUD, depo 90 or 30) is very small (1 to 2%). The chanceof condom misuse leading to pregnancy is around 8 to 12%. I was on my 76th week of depo 90 with shots faithfully every 10 weeks when I had a condom misuse issue leading to a breakage and subsequently my first daughter's birth. We never could pin point what caused the depo to just quit on me. Both of the pregnancies that followed were a result of taking prescription medications that no one warned me would negate the birth control. I blame that on the doctor that prescrbed the medication and on the pharmacy for not warning that teh medication cuold negate birth control. Though, if I'm being truthful with myself, I should admit it is still my fault. I should have done the medical research myself. Does anyone know a bookstore where I can buy a 2005 PDR in the central PA area? Now, I have a two page list from the pharmacist of generic medications. Anything that is made from all of those generics negates birth control. The doctor thought I was nuts when I presented him wiht the list and made him promise that my new allergy medication was not anything even remotely related to anything on the list. Maybe I'm paranoid. I believe that having sex and not considering the possibility of pregnancy is a bit irresponsible but getting pregnant while on usually reliable birth control (not something like the rythem method) is like eating at your favorite restaurant and getting food poisening. You chose the restaurant but trusted that kitchen staff was adhering to proper food prep procedures. When you choose a reliable method of birth control with a low chance of pregnancy, you trust that it will preform as expected. It's not your fault that the restaurnt got a bad batch of shrimp and it's not your fault if the medication you took wasn't up to standard. It's really nobody's fault. Sometimes these things happen.

To the original post... I want to say...I understand your feelings completely. I may not agree with them but in another time I may have felt the same way. When I found out that the man I was in love with and was going to marry was told he was sterile I was torn and angry at every pregnant woman I saw. Now, if I had shared these feelings with anyone at the time I'm sure I would have been seen as irrational and illogical (and I'm not saying that your feelings are) however, it was how I felt and I couldn't help it at the time. Well, the Dr was wrong and we conceived and gave birth to a beautiful little girl 9 weeks prematurely. The feelings then were some jealousy and anger at mothers who were leaving the hospital with their babies when I had to leave without mine. She finally came home and eventually we decided to try to conceive again only to find that we had to deal with secondary infertility (mine). So, now I'm bothered by any mother that I see not totally appreciating her children, or others that I knew were aborting and especially upset with close friends who had one child and a troubled marriage. They decided to have another baby to see if it would help their marriage...(hello?) They conceived within two weeks and DH and I had been trying, testing and going through procedures for 3 years. In my opinion, they had no right!!!! Eventually one of the procedures I went through enabled us to conceive so I was again able to forgive everyone in the world that I couldnt' relate to before. After raising those two wonderful children, a friend tried to talk me into taking her sister's baby "temporarily" to help her out. I had no intention. I had no desire for a baby, especially someone else's. Then one day I ran into this woman at the park. She was busy with all of her babies. The one she wanted me to take, (8 weeks old) and she also had a 1, 2, and 3 year old. She had her hands full and asked me to take her baby for a minute. I knew as soon as I looked into those eyes that there was something special between us. As Cobb said, I believe our spirits were meant to travel together. I've had several babies in my care and never felt anything like this no matter how much I loved and cared for them. Fortunately the bmom eventually decided to have us adopt our dd. I guess my point is, and I hope this makes sense, right or wrong in other peoples opinions, we are all entitled to our feelings AND also, no matter what our situation, fertile or not, childless or not, if it's meant to be it will be. We never had any intentions of adopting after giving birth. We only wanted two children and were blessed with a daughter and a son. BUT, Hannah was meant to be ours and found her way to us. Thank God, because we weren't even looking. It was just meant to be. Again, I hope this all made sense and I hope I didn't offend anyone or bore anyone. Nancy

Ok. I've typed and retyped this message and after sitting here for three hours I'm just going to post something brief and then be done with this thread. I am a (presumably) fertile woman who recently completed a newborn adoption with her female partner -- and both of us work full time. Fun, huh? And, along with said partner, I'm just as 'ideal' of an adoptive parent as anyone in a infertile hetero, upper-middle class two-parent family. Ask my son. He's pretty infatuated with his moms. :) I find it interesting that people are using class, sexuality, race and family structure to be so divisive and competitive. Blanket statements regarding who's a better parent/adoptive parent or who should/shouldn't be able to adopt a certain way based on the above classifications completely misses the point, in my opinion. The 'ideal' family in my world is one who provides a child (any child -- whether they join their families through birth or by adoption and regardless of age, race or special needs status) with many loving adults in many roles (parent(s), extended family, caregivers, friends, godparents, teachers etc etc). These adults are stable and loving and consistently act in the child's best interest. This family creates a safe and enriching world for a child to grow and explore, while providing appropriate boundaries and high expectations. This family is motivated by love, teaches kindness and respect and recognizes that there is no such thing as "perfection". These families exist in all configurations (birth, adoptive, same or opposite sex, two parent and single, families with one or many children, families of all races, religions, cultures, socio-economic statuses....) In my opinion, each and every one of these families can choose to build their family any way that works for them -- through birth, adoption, foster/adopt, kinship care... and has the right and the responsibility to determine the characteristics in a child they are capable of and excited to parent. My partner and I (who are as married in our hearts as any of the mom/dad families here) are really awesome parents. Hands down. We rock. We both parent differently (this isn't exclusive to opposite sex parents) and our son will reap the benefits of cooking with my partner and reading stories with me. We're blessed with an uncommonly large group of close friends and family, all of who have committed to the long term care, guidance and loving of our little guy and he will not want for adult attention (from both sexes). If all kids could be so lucky.

This is what it is really all about. I love the above! This is the best thing I have read today, here or anywhere (including the national story of the two nimrods who faked the treasure find, which WAS pretty entertaining)! Binyasa, YOU do rock! Frankly, this is how hubby and I feel about ourselves too. :D Your little guy is quite lucky indeed, as are the two of you!

What a lovely sentiment, and how true. What it all comes down to is that we are blessed to be the caretakers of children. Regardless of how that happens, (birth, adoption, etc.) it's an awesome responsibility, and one that we should all appreciate. For each of you who has traveled a rocky path to becoming a parent, I take my hat off. I've walked a little of that road and apparently it was one I needed to walk. Do I wish it would have come more easily? Not if it meant not having my wonderful son. :) I would be proud to introduce my son to the vast majority of you. I believe he would learn perspective and life experience that I can't offer him. You have certainly done so for me. :) Best, Kelley

Beautiful, Kelley (and Cobb and Nancy before). "I would be proud to introduce my son to the vast majority of you. I believe he would learn perspective and life experience that I can't offer him. You have certainly done so for me." I couldn't agree more. Warmly, MMM

I'm torn and angry at every pregnant woman I see. Expecially if they are enjoying being pregnant. Since I was considering adoption during my pregnancy, I wouldnt say that I fully enjoyed being pregnant. Jealous? definitely. I might be called the same things for my feelings now about pregnant women. And like you, I just cant help it right now. Same here. I hate that any parent treats thier kids like dirt. I wonder why if they hate parenting so much that they didnt place their own child. I know we're sort of seeing a different perspective to adoption, me being a birthmother instead, but I think some things we can say, I've been there too! And hating pregnant women (after placement for me, after placement/birth with help of fertility treatments for others) is definitely something we have shared. Okay, maybe not hating them, but a saddened jealous feeling that is at times overwhelming. Expecially when its a pregnant woman who has a bunch of kids already that appear to not be well cared for... Jealousy, sadness, anger... all at once.

Just wanted to add my own opinion too... I think whoever has the will/desire/love in their hearts to parent a child should. If you are able to provide a healthy, safe, nurturing home for a child, then great. In my opinion, just because you are married doesn't mean you are an ideal parent. Maybe both parents work. Maybe their is conflict in the relationship. Maybe whatever. For me, I am single, but in a serious relationship. I'm currently waiting a match as a foster/adoptive mother. I feel no rush to get married, despite my love for my boyfriend. Marrying him is not going to make me a better mother. My children will be around male role models consistently. They will feel the love of many people. My dad lives three blocks away. In addition, I will be a stay at home mother even though I'm single. I think it is easy to sit in judgement of someone who you deem as "less worthy" to raise children. But the truth is, parenting, love, adoption are all very complicated, complex things. And it is up to each parent, each worker, or each potential birthparent to decide what is best for them, and for the children.

I just had to say AMEN.... To Binyasa.. Well stated. Also, I couldn't post without saying your son is beautiful :) What a great snapshop of a newborn! Isn't it the most fun? We should end this message string since it's on such a positive note..

Binyasa - Well said! PlareB - To clarify, when I said I felt everyone was entitled to have a family, whatever "family" means to you. That definition is different for everyone, and doesn't necessarily include bio children or legally adopted children. I have a church "family" and I consider my dearest friends "sisters", so I was referring to a more broader sense of family. Sorry that was so confusing, and I can understand your point. Thanks for commenting!

i had to add my two cents to this already lengthy thread. As to whether adoptive parents should be fertile or unfertile... this discussion totally misses the point. Adoption should never be about giving a child to a family. Children are not commodities. Parents don't deserve children, it is the other way around. It should always be about finding the very best placement for the child, regardless of whether that family is fertile, unfertile, gay, straight or covered in polka dots!

B.coffman. I agree. I almost wish you hadn't posted though. I've been doing a good job of avoiding this thread, but now that's it's reared it's ugly head again, I find I can't pass it by. I took EXTREME offense to the post that said basically that single parents and same sex couples should only adopt the older children and special needs children. The implication I got off of this was that since single parents and ss parents aren't as good as that they should get the children that aren't as good as. I'm going to leave it at that. I keep typing more and erasing it because I will get banned if I put down my full thoughts on it. So I will leave it as, no matter how politely spoken, this entire thread is extremely offensive to many groups of people and I can't believe it's even being discussed.

Cleo: I understand your frustration and anger. I do think, though, that without threads like this one, I would never have seen those on this forum who are so supportive and in agreement with things that I believe in. I find that although it started on a note that was offensive to me, I feel better having read many of the posts...not worse. :o Kelley

Wow, we're a heterosexual, fertile (with 3 bio kids) CC couple who only consider special needs/older child adoptions AND I SAH (and homeschool to boot). So, do we get an acceptable pass for our intentions to adopt? Seriously, as frustrated as someone may be because their deep desire to parent a child is not being fulfilled whilst they see those they feel are less deserving in some way competing with them for the children they desire so desperately, its not one person's place to make that decision. Believe it or not, it really and truly is about parents for children, not children for parents ultimately. And, if you are going the domestic newborn route, your opinions aren't really going to matter a hill of beans. The domestic (CC especially) newborn scene is a birthparent dictated situation. For those wonderful healthy, CC newborns its all about the desires of the birthparents, not the couples wanting to adopt. And, the reality, as a few other birthmothers mentioned, is that there is NO ideal couple for all birthparents that is the same across the board. While Brandy and Michelle were 100% positive that the families they choose needed to be infertile and have no other children, my criteria was as opposite from that as could possibly be. What were my critieria? It was a simple process. I went through over 100 profiles and eliminated all but 8 in a matter of 10 minutes. End of story. I eliminated those profiles on ONE category, and one alone--which I was 100% unwilling to budge on. Any couple who wasn't open to ANY and ALL races was automatically eliminated from consideration for my healthy, CC bdaughter (not a drop of alcohol, drugs or smoking and not a single missed prenatal in all 9 months). I didn't care what the reasons given where. At 17, I considered the mere idea that someone would be unwilling to consider a child based upon the color of their skin to be racist, and I was completely and categorically uninterested in considering such couples. Truth is, the second criteria I had was that I absolutely DID want a family with other children. I settled for a couple who didn't have any children because I liked them better than the only one of the 8 profiles that did already have children. But, I very much wanted a couple with children already in the home. And, I actually know several other birthmothers who also searched based upon the desire that there BE children already in the home. If only infertile couples with no children were allowed to adopt, I probably wouldn't have found the family I was looking for. I wouldn't have choosen such a couple. I would have done what I did when the one couple I liked fell through. I turned to strictly private adoption and approached someone I knew personally to adopt my child who already had children in the home. Because I was NOT placing my children in a home without other children. (The first couple ran a daycare out of their home, so at least there were children in the home already.) I understand being frustrated. But in domestic newborn adoptions, each birthmother is going to search for the family she feels is best for her child. If a birthmother wants an infertile couple, then the precense of fertile couples (or couples who have previously adopted) is simply not going to impede her ability to search for what she desires. Just like the precense of infertile couples with no children never stopped me from searching and finding a family WITH children to place my child with. And, I never regretted it, because it was NEVER my desire for her to be an only nor an oldest child. I wanted her to have a big brother very specifically. She has a big brother. I searched for that big brother regardless of who was presented to me.