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Shelly - Take a look at the post by Sak9645 I linked above. She goes into a ton of detail about the reasons the SS office gives for not giving SS #'s and the reason they are wrong. And also ways to deal with it. The SS office is wrong about this and you are right! Regardless of her visa type, she qualified for a social security number the day she entered the US. Check out that post. I think it will help. Don't give up!
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if you go to the office and pick the number up. We were in this same predicament last year. The reason they say it takes two weeks is because they mail it to you. You cannot use a tax id #....they will kick it back and then it will most likely be too late to refile. Ali
We just did this yesterday. My husband took my son's permanent resident card, passport, and our paperwork -- I think they only needed the BC and translation and the Adoption Decree and translation. He said there were no problems and we can just change his citizenship and name after the readoption, but keep the same number. Our SS office had no problem with it. They just gave him a number as a permanent resident. They said it will take 2 weeks to get it.
Dpline, THANK YOU!
Thank you also to everyone else who helped me. It was because of the info I received on all the boards (I Xposted this), that we were able to sort things out. At least I think they are sorted! :)
I called the SS man back who waited on us Thurs. I read him the paragraph from the SS website saying she qualified as a perm resident for a SS card. He finally agreed to list her as a perm resident but said he put the app in under her new (readopted) name. He said he is sending the INS copies of our new BC and readoption/name change papers and he said he'll see what happens. He told us to still get the COC papers in ASAP. ( I don't understand why, but will do anyway).
Hopefully with everything sorted they should approve it, since she is a perm resident and will match what they have on her app. They may or may not change the name , which I could care less. As long as we get the card and number for taxes, we can worry about the name later after we get the COC with the new name.
So with fingers crossed we will see what happens.
It was such a headache.
I learned a heck of a lot these past couple days.
I think our mistake was that since we readopted and had the new BC, we assumed since she is technically a US citizen we could file as a citizen, and her new name. We didn't realize we must file as a perm resident, and just use the name on the perm resident card even though we legally changed it. After we apply for the COC and send them the name change, then we can take the new COC with name change into the SS office and change the name and status.
The name thing threw me and I thought since she had a new name, that should go on the app. I did not know that the SS had to send the forms to the INS. After I learned that, I realize that makes sense why whatever paperwork the INS has at the time of the SS app, is what you should apply under. Like technically we readopted and changed her name and she is a US citizen. BUT we didn't file for the COC, so the INS still has her listed under her old name and as a perm resident. And both apps much match.
But to pass some blame back to the SS offices, they should have known this and told us this. We asked if we could file as a Perm resident when they said we couldn't file as a citizen without a COC or US passport. We were told we could NOT apply as a perm resident because they couldn't list us as her parents. I still don't understand that one! But I now know they were dead wrong.
I came to the conclusion that both offices had no clue about the 2 different types of visas. They assumed that ALL adopted children got a COC automatically and we could only file as a citizen with a COC or US passport.
They didn't realize that the IR3 visa families can file as a citizen right away and show their coc. Later they can show the new COC if they changed the name, but the
IR4 familes its different.
They didn't know that IR4 visas come home as perm residents and have to readopt and file to get the COC. Therefore they will get IR4 families who want a SS card as a perm resident (which is ALLOWED).
When I tried to explain this to them, they told me I was wrong and readoption is an option. I told them it may be for the IR3 visa in some states or if they don't want to change a name, but for the IR4 visa you must in order to get a COC. Its not optional.
So hopefully our experience will help make it easier for future families if you are reading this.
Please note it is my understanding that IR3 visas file as a citizen and therefore do require a COC or US passport.
But IR4 visas may get one before you readopt and before you apply for the COC as a perm resident. And if applying as a perm resident, you do NOT need to show a COC or US passport.
Wheww. I think I got that all right? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I hope I'm done with this all now and the SS card will arrive in a few weeks. Please, please,please. :)
Thanks again,
Shelly :)
You are welcome, but thank Sak9645. Just borrowing her info! If you ever need to know anything about USCIS/SS/government agencies, do a search for her posts and you will get great info. :)
shellydm
Please note it is my understanding that IR3 visas file as a citizen and therefore do require a COC or US passport.
We went and got a SS number for my daughter within 48 hours of the time she came home on an IR3. Because we obviously did not have the COC, she was listed as a permanant resident until I came back with the COC later. They would not accept the IR3 visa in her passport as proof of citizenship. Same with my son. Now if they were correct in doing this I don't know, but the would not list either child as a citzen without the COC.
I think our mistake was that since we readopted and had the new BC, we assumed since she is technically a US citizen we could file as a citizen, and her new name. We didn't realize we must file as a perm resident, and just use the name on the perm resident card even though we legally changed it. After we apply for the COC and send them the name change, then we can take the new COC with name change into the SS office and change the name and status.
I really wonder if they are right about this part. I can see not showing her as a citizen until you have the COC (sort of,) but if you have the paperwork showing a legal name change, why can't they use her new, legal name? What is the difference between that and when you get married and change your name and have your name changed with SS? That is her legal name!
I am still confused about the sending the forms to Immigration. What forms and what is it accomplishing? You are the second person that has posted this lately and in almost 3 years here I had never heard of paperwork going from SS to INS before.
Regardless, I am SO glad you got it straighted out! And hopefully they are better informed now and won't give other parents the difficult time they gave you! (Got to have hope! ;) )
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Thank you for correcting me.
So even an IR3 visa can apply as a perm resident when you first get home, before the COC arrives in the mail. Thank you, got it. I didn't know that. I am still learning! :)
The guy at the second SS office said they have to send the SS application to the INS to confirm the immigration status before they can approve the case. So the SS app goes to the INS.
I too am confused why he wants us to file our COC papers ASAP as I don't understand how it relates.
At first, he said he was going to file her as a citizen and use her new name. He said it wouldn't match what the INS had since we didn't file the COC papers yet with the new name and proof of citizenship. So told us to get the COC papers in ASAP. He wouldn't file us as a perm resident.
Then Friday morning I called back and read him the bit from the SS site saying we could file as a perm resident. So he said he would file her as a perm resident, but was going to use her new name and supply photocopies of the new BC and readoption papers. It is on its way to the INS now. He said they may or may not allow the new name on the card. I would MUCH rather him file it under her perm resident name, to be sure it would go through. But again we went back and forth and this was as far as he would budge.
So since they are filing the SS app as a perm resident which matches with what the INS has (besides the name), I don't see why the COC papers would help or hinder. But he insisted that we file the COC papers ASAP, at the same time of his SS app.
Who knows?? :)
Well, we got our daughter's SS number almost immediately after homecoming, readoption took awhile and didn't happen until Oct '05. So we couldn't file for our COC until after that happened, and then I just kind of kept putting it off until this August. So we just got her COC Feb '07. I agree that you should file for the COC as soon as you can, but it won't hurt anything if you wait ahile.
Here's the info we received from our agency...hope it helps.
File for a Social Security Card for your child. This is done by
taking the translated and original birth certificate down to your
local social security office and filling out a fairly simple
application form. Unfortunately, there are a few offices where the
staff is unaware of how to do this and they may tell you that you
must get a passport or citizenhip for you child first. This is not
correct! Please advise the person helping you that you need resident
alien status for your child and that as soon as you receive the
proof of citizenship or passport later on, you will present it and
they can change the status in their system. If they still refuse,
ask to speak with a supervisor. If they refuse to get a supervisor
or the supervisor says no, ask for a formal written denial because
they are wrong! This happens only about 1-2% of the time, hopefully
it will hot happen to you.
HTH
shellydm
The guy at the second SS office said they have to send the SS application to the INS to confirm the immigration status before they can approve the case. So the SS app goes to the INS.
Not that I don't believe they said this, or for that matter even do it, why on earth do they have to confirm her status with INS? Do they think she is in the country illegally? You have a passport with a visa on it. That doesn't prove anything? And the child is eligable for a SS# with either an IR3 or and IR4 visa.
'Who knows' is right! :D
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