Is contact hard for you?

Yes, Ifind it hard, because I feel there is some sabatoge going on. Our daughter came to live with us a year ago. Prior to that she had been living with grandmother, who had adopted her older sister and was going to adopt her, then changed mind. I can understand that, T has ODD and is hard to deal with. As a single woman handling her along with her sister would be a handful. We agreed to keep contact so that she could spend time with g'ma and sister. However, g'ma would say things like "Don't call her mom, she hasn't adopted you yet" and "if you change your mind you can come back here". The second one was not true at all. First off nine year olds really don't get to choose where they live, and secondly, since she had not adopted T in the four years she had her, and had in fact stated that she would not, no matter what she would not be going back to g'ma. Afer spending time with g'ma T would come back thoroughly confused. There was a period where we had to stop contt altogether. After a few months we were able to reestablish contact, and T is now legally adopted. During all this birth mom was really not in the picture, as she was in jail. However, New Years Day T called g'ma to wish her happy new year. When she got off the phone she "had a secret". She made a point of letting me know she had a secret, which meant she wanted to tell me. Well, after some prodding she told me that she had been talking to her birth mom, who had gotten out of jail the day before and had stopped doing drugs, but she wasn't supposed to tell me till after she had "talked to the judge"!!??!! Other than one phone conversation with g'ma we have had no contact since then. During the phone conversation I told g'ma what b mom had said, and that for the time being we would not be having contact. I don't know if I am right or wrong - but the fact that bmom told her to lie to us is very disturbing. If b mom had contacted us and asked to see T we would have arranged something, but now I a filled with mistrust. I am praying about this, but so far do not have a clue as to how to handle it.

Secrets with children are not a good thing. In fact, that's the term many molesters use and is the phrase that is used in one book about how to talk with children about sexual predators. 'This is a secret just between us.' Kids are better able to determine if something is ok or not by knowing that secrets are not ok vs. the older idea of 'good touch'/'bad touch'. So, secret touch is not ok. Secret meetings, secret touch, secret gifts, secrets that exclude the people who care for you...all not good. Kids need to know this so that they can determine if something is ok or not. If you have to keep something a secret from your mom and dad, it isn't a good thing. Having a secret with a family member that you can't tell about is really not ok. Especially if that family member is a convicted felon.Yikes.We're dragging our heels about contact. We've had a request for contact, but this is months after the adoption was final and there is no mediation set up or anything. I'm a bit hesitant, due to the tone of some of the things that were shared...so right now I'm going with my 'gut' and not doing any contact that reveals identity. Basically we're kind of waiting to see how a couple of back-burner situations pan out, but it's all so overwhelming at times for me (with 4 adopted, and each adopted has bio dad and bio mom, extended family, 1/2 sibs on each side, adopted sibs' families, etc. etc. etc.) that I've just tabled the whole thing for now. Is that ok? (Well, doesn't matter. I'm being stubborn and giving me some down time!)

Wow. If my son's birth family EVER told him to keep a secret from me, there would be no unsupervised contact at all for years and years.I think you need to set some very strong boundaries around this, and explain that there will be NO SECRETS from you, ever!

mom2GRLC - I completely understand where you are coming from! I do not like contact with birth family (especially biodad). I too am torn when it comes to biomom and biograndma. I know the whole situation has been hard on them (fostering and then the adoption). My two girls are such a miracle! They have a lot of family members, even a number that live in town, and probablly would never have been adopted outside the family if it weren't for biomom. She decided she wanted the girls to stay with us after getting to know us and pushed for over a year to have them stay here. She told other family members not to come forward, etc. So on one hand, I am extremely grateful to her for my wonderful children and I know it was a very painful and difficult decision for her to make. On the other hand, it is hard to see her and biograndma because all that pain and what ifs kind of sit in the air. I know the grandmother feels a lot of guilt because she would have kept the girls but couldn't due to age, health, etc. They are both nice people and the girls have seen them a few times since the adoption last November and they will call occassionally to see how the girls are doing. Than there is the biodad. I have a lot of issues with him having contact with the girls. He has proven time and again to lie, manipulate, controlling, disrespectful, etc. He is not someone I want my children to be around. He treats the girls like possessions and trophies to be paraded around - not children to be raised and cared for. He is one that will not accept "NO" as an answer. He will keep pushing or contacting someone higher in athority until he gets the answer he wants. I get so upset just thinking about him. With him, it is very difficult to figure out what to do. I don't want him completely cut out of the girls' lives forever, I don't think that will do them any good. But I don't know where to exactly start. I guess I would like for the girls to know that yes they have a biodad and what he looks like and feel secure with that information so they don't have to wonder who he is. Like you said, visits and contact are hard with the bfamily. There are a lot of emotions running on both sides. You said you've made it work over the past few years, so that gives me hope. Part of our added stress with contact right now is that the adoption was just finalized five months ago. The bfamily was used to weekly contact with the girls and now they do not have that. The time between contacts has been increasing which has helped the girls and our time to bond with them so they aren't torn between so many people. They have definitly been doing much better, happier, more affectionate, etc. I think they are feeling very safe and secure here and know they are not going anywhere. Anyway, I just wanted to respond to your post and let you know I feel the same things. It also helps me to know there are others out there going through similar feelings and situations. Thank you!

I don't have contact with any of my bio's... as far as adoption goes, my first adoption I agreed to contact and the bm became so hard to deal with that I limite contact to letters only, then she started showing up at my house and my son's school and told him if he told, he'd be in trouble. He was 11 at the time and told me right away; I filed a restraining order and won. I do allow her to send letters to a PO Box but she doesn't. After my experiences with her, I wasn't open to even considering contact with my other adoptions. As for foster care, that is the #1 reason I don't foster kids anymore... I can't take being pushed around, threatened and treated like poo by them. I have only had good experiences with one bio family, and that family actually got reunification after only one month! Now because of not having contact with bio. families, it's being written in my new adoption homestudy that I'm not open to that, so I will likely only get refferals for kids who's bio. parents are out of the picture. ;~) Kelly

For my son there is a mediation agreement--I agreed to 4 visits per year as well as letters and photos. Although I don't truly regret the decision to do this, it does make me uncomfortable sometimes. Especially after I read the file on my son and his bios before finalizing the adoption. Some things really surprised me about them when I read the file and it has tainted my view of them now, although the bmother has now vanished and I only have contact with the bfather and his mother. And the bfather has had another son last year. After reading of the neglect and possible abuse associated with the bmother I am glad she's not involved now. She had already lost 3 kids before my son was born and lost all of them to the system because of her inability to parent even though she was given so many opportunities and help from the State (they took the kids away after 3 months of trying to get her help with housing, a job, daycare, etc.) I don't want to deprive my son of his roots but sometimes I look at these people and wonder how they can be the way they are...they don't seem to have any common sense. And I guess they had no great examples to learn from growing up since they both seemed to have had dysfunctional families to start with...it's just hard sometimes to look at these people and not want to smack them. I hope this gets better as time passes but I have a feeling that maybe they will be so involved with the "new son" that they will not continue with the visits. There is one due this month and I haven't heard anything from the bfather (he usually calls my cell phone), only time will tell...

YES!!! I actually HATE visits! I get all torn up inside right before them...and I stress about what to say. I have nothing in common with the family and I always feel like my parenting is under a microscope. I hate the sence of entitlement they project, and I hate that they pretty much extend an invitation to every relative with a 100 mile radius. Do I think it is healthy or a blessing? No way! I only say this because the last visit Bear (only 22 months) stood in a corner right by the front door with his nose burried in it. He acted as though he has spent his entire life in time out! He was scared of all the people and would not even come to either of us. They were grumpy that he did not jump into their arms and pounce all over the gifts they had given him. He has a very huge stranger danger issue as it is, and here these people are trying to paw and fawn all over him and he doesn't know them from Adam. As for telling them no, I actually had to copy the adoption agreement and send it to b-mom after the last visit. She e-mailed me weekly for almost a month asking for another visit. She claimed to have never received a copy of the agreement. I explained to her that the agreement was in place so that I would not have to feel as though I were denying her, but so that we all understood the terms and respected them. That is why we ALL signed it. I further reiterated that the visits were for HER and not her whole family and that I did not think it was healthy for Bear to be bombarded with so many strangers. I asked that in the future we follow the terms that we agreed upon. Of course I have not heard from her since and that was a month ago. But boundaries are boundaries and THEY are not my family...Bear is and I don't think this arrangement is in his best interest at this point. Also, just yesterday b-gma e-mailed asking to see him this week. She expressed that she had been seeing alot of b-mom lately and they are getting along great. If that is the case, then she knows about the letter I sent...so I ask myself if this is a game they are playing. Are they both trying to push the boundaries? Is b-mom trying to "back-door" the situation? See what I mean? How can this be good for my son?

we are still in the process of adopting our foster kids (all siblings, #3 with just a different dad), the older 2 visit their dad once a week either at a park or social services office. it's monitored so there is someone there to make sure nothing is said bad about us. (he's willing to relinquish his rights so i don't think he'd be the type anyway). the mom had visits that i had to monitor. i was actually glad to meet her and know what the kids might look like someday. she was really shy, and actually quite reserved with the kids (she hadn't seen them in months but didn't really seem very responsive) she hasn't visited since (last was before christmas) the baby has a trial on monday, mom never showed to pre-trial, we will probably be able to adopt her too. part of me was glad to meet the mom, was able to ask her about her family, about some of the people i hear the oldest talking about and if they have aunts and uncles. i'm partially glad she's not showing to visits now though, i'm glad that if we're going to adopt the kids they haven't had a chance to really re-establish a relationship with her.they do get one phone call a month with the maternal g-ma but i put it on speaker phone and don't just let her talk to the kids individually, so if i hear (which i haven't yet) anything inappropriate i can stop the call.in the end, they're a blessing and a curse.

I can certainly understand the mixed feelings about visits.We verbally agree to limited contact.we finalized our adoption of our son in july.tried to have a meeting with bmom in dec,but she could not make it!so next month we will try again.We are trying this for our son,but would stop it in a minute if it turns out to not be the best thing for him.he has had a visit with his bsis,and that went well.We dont really think his bmom will continue with contact,but who knows.i am anxious about the visit,ahveing never done this before.he is our son now,and realy worry how all this will affect him.for some familes this is a great thing,but not for all.I just try to put the focus on my sons feelings and not mine.

We too have a hard time with visits, but ours is as case such as MRSRED, where Gma was telling our dd what she should be doing and saying. We have a call once a week, 15minutes on Wed. and then a once a month visit, because of soooo many problems we were having with DD after unsupervised visits and phone calls, we had to stop. All visits and phone calls are supervised, what a change it has made in our DD's life!!! The second Gma starts to say something that is not o.k., she gets one warning, the next is either hang up the phone or we leave during the physical visits. We are done having her thinking she could "control us" and tell us what we needed to be doing. Our 1st and formost worries are about DD, and we will do whatever we need to protect her. Our issues we are now facing with visits and phone calls is DD doesn't really want to do them. She is tried of each week Gma yelling at her, or "Demanding" answers or telling her what she should be doing. DD announced last wed, she didn't want to call each week, now we are faced with that issue....... I do somewhat feel that visits are important to her past, she lived with them for 7 years before being removed from their care, we can't just erase those 7 years. However, we do wish we would have "changed our open agreement" to read, subject to change......Its not a legal court paper, but GMA still likes to "BRING IT UP" when she thinks we aren't being Fair.....

I don't think a kid should be forced to have contact if they don't want it. I know it is hard for the b-family to deal with, but why have your child resent you because you...or the b-family are forcing an issue? In the end is it REALLY in the best interest of the child? That is a problem I am having with our b-mom...these visits are all about HER and what HER wants and needs are and she could care less about how it effects anyone else. For example, she posted photos of not just the son she placed with us, but of our other son AND out home on her myspace page...publicly. When I locked our photo share account to guest password access only, she was mad at me because I have denied her the one thing that gets her thru every day. What about the safely of US, our children, and our family?? What about the fact that the father of the son she placed with us is a incarcerated sex offender and if he can find her we don't want him to find our children! Where does one draw the line on when enough is enough and open adoption is NOT a good thing?

I guess, looking at this, it is time for me to update it! My last post was a year ago, and I am happy to report that things have improved over the last 12 months. After that telephone call with b mom we had no visit at all for a couple months. Then slowly we began to allow more contact. By April T was able to spend a weekend with b mom and b g'ma (they were living together at the time). I think that the biggest difference is that (a) they realize that I hold all the cards. We do not have an open adoption agreement. It is my kindness, and nothing more, that allows visits to happen. If at any point I feel visits are not in T's best interest, or I feel they are not following my 'rules', visits can and will be put on hold. And (b) they can see a difference in T. Yes, she is still a handful. Yes, she still qualifies for her diagnosis of ODD. But she really has come a long way, and they recognize that. Now we do occassional day visits and occassional over nights. I personally invited them to come to T's dance recital in June, meet us at the airport when we flew in from Disneyland on T's birthday, attend the band performance in the park that T participated in, and attend the Christmas Program at our church where T had a speaking role. I have found that when we have problems they are usually with T herself, not with things they are doing or not doing. For instance, last fall we went three months with no overnights. But that was because T had lost all overnight privileges, even those with friends due to her behavior when she would come home from spending the night away from home. All in all, I think we have a pretty good relationship with b family. I think it is better for T this way, than it would be for no contact at all. I would not want this type of contact with our adopted son's b family or our hopefully soon to be adopted daughter's family. But the circumstances of removal are completely differnent, and the level of harm done prior to removal is much higher.

We are waiting for termination of rights to go through so we can adopt. This kids are seeing their bio grandma whenever she feels like it. She sends lots of expensive presents for the oldest and one or 2 small things for the others. It causes jealousy for the kids. They feel left out. She knew the older on best has not really seen the others much. But still I feel it is wrong to dote on one and not the others. We live in a closed adoption state, so it is our choice wheather or not to keep her involved. I feel torn, Sometimes I think -no way, then she starts showing interest and being kind to us. I wonder what is best for the kids, I have seen some small amounts of manipulation on her part. The old caseworker was really good and kept very limited contact with her. The new one gave her our phone number, and lets her see the kids with as little as 5 hours notice. We have repeatedly said we would like at least 48 hours notice ( othere caseworkers demanded 1 week notice which I prefer, but I feel with this cw we have no say). I also have gone to screening my calls because I really feel uncomfortable talking to her and she is weird on the phone. She will not call for several weeks, then call 2 or three times on week. We are planning to move to another state when all is finished , not because of her but because we have aging grandparents we want to be close to. I wonder should we tell her, should we get a PO box, should we only allow letters sent through DFS. Should we limit the presents she sends. A foster mom friend told me that in her experiece after about 6 months she would fizzle out and not want any contact. I have read a few books that say it is better for the kids to have contact, but this family is crazy and dangerous. I feel like it would be better for them to have a fresh start, and not see them again. I would like to keep a file for when they have questions and are older. but I wonder is it truly best for them to have contact or is that just one adopted child opinion and they assume the rest feel that way. We also spent $150 on making Grandma a photo album of everything we have for the last 18 months. Got her a framed x mas photo of the kids and made a dvd for her. She knows that we have this stuff for her, but has not shown up to get it, and she will not let us mail it to her. I wonder why bother trying.

alright, i'm not sure if anyone's still looking at this, but i'd posted quite a while ago about how it's a blessing and a curse to have visits. my kids (we're doing the adoption signing on monday) haven't had contact with their 'tummy mom' since before christmas (of 07, it's now september of 08) so they don't even really talk about her any more, or the bdad. our kids know that M and C will always be their 'tummy mom' and 'the dad that made them' we didn't want them to have to choose which parent got called 'mom and dad' so we just let them call them keep calling them that, and it seems to be best for them. we'd be totally open to a couple visits a year and having the bparents send stuff to our PO box (gang ties have given us a confidential placement) but when the agency that was going to mediate the terms tried to contact them, neither one of them would respond and it was closed. now it's completely up to us if we want them to ever have contact again, we are open to it, but it's the bioparents who are dropping off the face of the earth and not wanting any. i'm not sure how we'll explain that to the kids some day, how their bioparents didn't want to keep seeing them, but i'm sure some how it'll work out. when they're old enough to handle it, we'll give them their court documents which will tell them objectively about their story, the bp's, how they were removed and why, and we won't have to raise them with subjective views about them. they can decide for themselves what they think about them. anyway. the kids are good and know that M and C loved/do love them very much but that they weren't making good choices, and didn't/couldn't keep them safe.