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Ok, bear with me here. This is going to be kind of long, but I really need some advice from someone who knows what is what.
I adopted a daughter from foster care in June 2007. She was with me from Oct 2005. LONG process. Dad had custody. Grandma came on all visits. Bio-Mom MIA. Not seen my daughter Savannah since she was 4. Bio-mom has 12 other live kids and 1 deceased. She has lost all of them to foster care and then to adoption or to the Dads.
So the TPR for Mom went with out a hitch. It was final in Oct 2006. Dad went after. His was also Oct 2006. He asked that his Mom (Grandma) be left out of the custody issue as she was filing to get custody. Grrrr So they allowed it. So Dad gets TPR and of course files an appeal. He loses that and files another to the supreme court. He loses that too. He basically did nothing he was supposed to do court ordered. He didn't agree with their assesments of him. LOL UH Right. So DID NOTHING. They upheld in both courts. That was Dec.
Then comes Grandma...she had a home study but failed due to the small place. So she moved to a house that was bigger, only she never actually moved in there. So she failed again. Then JUST before the custody hearing between her and I she got it approved. Savannah was in foster care for over 2 years and NOW she wants her. Why did it take so long etc etc. Anyway....there were questions as to how much acess Grandma would allow with Dad and they were totally emeshed from years of reliance on each other. She sat in there and lied.....said Savannah always smelled and her hair was gross. LMAO Funny thing was her one therapist that was with her from the beginning still going with Dad, said she changed. She was clean and dressed so nicely. Happy. Observed the rules. Total opposite of what Grandma said. LOL She did it to herself. So anyway. Shorten this to say she is bonded totally to me. Was calling me Mom from May 2006 after asking if she could. Decided she wanted to stay with me forever not to soon after.
Dad can't see Savannah, but Grandma did. I was upset cause they would tell her things like if you pick Kim you will never see us again. Dad had 2 other kids he had no idea where they were and he "found them" That truth is they kids found him. They wanted to know about Savannah. He lied to them and told them she was with her MOm and her Mom travelled for business. That did it for her older sibling Tom. He now wants nothing to do with Dad ever again. Savannah he adores. Allie is her sister and she was very upset that Dad lied.
So....since the adoption we have become very close to Savannahs other siblings. Tom is 21 and Allie is 16. They are wonderful and Allies' family has embraced us as one of their own. Her Grandma and Grandpa are that to Savannah too. She loves them all and I am very happy with that side of the open adoption.
Now, here is my problem. Dad is a weird guy. He just gives me one of those vibes. Just "off" He is an alcoholic and has some major mental issues that he needs to adress. But I agreed to let him see Savannah on the understanding that I was the boss of them and it would stay civil or we would bolt. I am not really scared of him, but I am scared of what he might do. I am a single Mom. His Mom ....Grandma comes on most visits we have had and I told Savannah we would see them.
We saw them about every other weekend this summer. Since adoption finialzation. We did a picnic. Went to a small zoo. Went bowling. Had fun stuff. I told them that once summer was over it would be less. They got pretty upset.
My friends say stop the visits and let them go to once or twice a year. I agree they are not going to be every other weekend. BUT what is too much. What isn't?
The one friends husband works with kids from foster homes in group homes. He says he thinks they are trying to establish a consistant visit schedual so that Grandma can go to court and try to get visitation. When I won in court, they said that they hoped I would continue to allow Savannah to see Grandma as she does love her. I have and she does. It is up to my sweet girl. What she wants. If she ever says no......them be ****ed its done.
But, I think it has been qute a much this summer and told them now with school we will make time to try and see you around Christmas and Grandma hung up on me. Can she do this if the adoption is finalized? The court agreed 100% Savannah is much much better off with me. What happens though if grandma does complain in court Will they grant her visitation rights? At the end they had changed to supervised only when in the beginning of the case they were alone. Things happened that made them rethink that and they became supervised only. They had some real issues with Grandmas behavior and things. So now I am worried sick. Can she disrupt this adoption? I am allowing them access. But the minute I don't allow it when they think they should get it.....they get upset. The court said allow access to grandma....what does that mean. A few times a year or everyother weekend? Am I wrong in doing this?
I should say that Savannah is very happy and very settled. She knows she is safe with me. I go on the visits and she is never alone with them nor do we go anywhere but in public. She has no desire ever to go back. She has said she misses them, but she is happy here. She is settled and I AM Mom now.
So......any suggestions and comments????
AD Savannah :female: Adoption final June 5th 2007
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I think the visits go well. Savannah is 8 and she really loves them. She does good after the visits, so behavior is not the issue.Well, Dad had a lot of issues involving drinking and driving, mental things and such. That aside....he loves his daughter. That is obvious. SHE loves him. I don't want to NOT do any visits. She had not seen her Dad since TPR in Oct. She saw him after the adoption. I am ok with this. Dad is a bit scary at times, but he never intentially hurt Savannah. He did try he is just not parent material. As the saying goes the apple does not fall far from the tree. Grandma has a lot of issues too. BUT ....she too truly loves Savannah.
I just got all upset when friends started telling me that Grandma could go to court and get court ordered visits if she established regular visits were going on. The adoption is final. They turned her down for custody, but did say they hoped I would continue to let her see Savannah. I let it happen more in the summer, but now school has started it is going to be much less. Probably won't see them now until maybe Christmas.
I don't NOT want to have visits, but I don't want Grandma getting unsupervised visits with Savannah if she goes to court. There were some issues that went on when she had unsupervised time with Savannah during the foster time. Not hurting her physically, but some mental game play going on.
I just an worried now that she can take it to court under Grandparents rights and get court ordered visits. THEN....my big fear is she is going to push for unsupervised and quite frankly.....IF that happened they would totally steal her at some point. I have no doubt in my mind.
Just frustrated and worried. Thanks for the input.
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I do not think your worries are warranted - you are her mom and the courts saying they "hope" you continue contact falls way short of legally requiring you to maintain contact. I think the amount of interaction going from frequent to "not until Christmas" is what caused the level of upset. Good luck.
I agree that stopping them until Christmas is probably what set them off. I would offer once a month during the school year. In my state, once the TPR happened and then adoption, she is no longer legally a part of their family and Gma would not be able to ask for Gparent's visitation. You will need to check with your state office to be sure. Another thing that would have bearing is if you have a visitation agreement of any kind.
I'm sorry but the bf has been terminated for a reason. If the courts found him unfit there should be no more questions. If he has this many issues, very limited contact should be your goal. If she wants to find him when she is of age support her 100%.
As far a gram goes, she has no rights once your adoption is final. She is now YOUR daughter. They have no claim to her.
We adopted our son in Febuary with the agreement that we would try to keep contact with his grandma, older sister and his little brother. The lady that adopted his little brother just stopped coming to the visits with no further contact. The bio grandma brought the birthmom to our last visit, so I just walked out (I never agreed to that). On his birthday his sister called and we let her talk to him. She wanted to know if we could start visits again, we told her to have her grandma call us, she never did.
I was not raised with my bio family and did just great. Contact is not always what is best for the children. Sometimes you have to help them move on with their lives.
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There was another thread on here somewhere that was a really interesting discussion on parents that were TPR'd, but were in an open adoption. A lot of the postings there had some interesting points. Suggestions that potentially DSS was dropping the ball for a lot of these kids. If the parent's skill are poor enough that their rights are terminated, how are they a positive influence on a child. One mother really felt that she had sort of been bullied into an open adoption, because she felt it was the fastest, and surest way to make the adoption final. She felt a lot of social workers promise the parents open adoptions so they put up less fuss about TPR (some sign willingly with promises of open adoption, because it makes them feel like they won a small part of the fight in some way) and Aparents agree to open adoption because they are just so scared that they will lose this child that they love so much. I think there are many cases where parental rights are TPR with really valid reasons, but every one agrees on an "open adoption" and then the aparents are left to make really tough choices about what is best for the child. Clearly being with their bparents was NOT best for them, so frequent contact with them may not be either. You are her mom now, so you need to do what is best. If they didn't give the gm unsupervised visitation, or custody, they aren't going to grant her legal visitation rights either. Once a month visits are more than generous. Even every other month, or 6 times a year is more than a lot of aparents feel is in their child's best interest. Follow your gut. Good luck!
Yes, I don't see how grandma could win visitation after a TPR, because in the eyes of the law she is NOT the grandparent anymore...or can you imagine the mess we'd have of grandparents trying to find and win rights to visit children adopted at birth, or in closed adoptions? I'm pretty sure that this would never be allowed after a legal adoption.
Ditto what everybody else says.Savannah's birth-gma is no longer any legal relative to her at all. YOU decide who she will see and when. So have as many visits as seem healthy to you, and don't hesitate to put some strong boundaries around what kind of behavior Gma and Dad have at visits. Tell them "these are the rules, and if you can't abide by them, you can't visit." You are in charge. Nobody can see Savannah unless you say they can.
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vernellinnj
I agree that contact is not always best but we should also remember (as someone said previously) often times the reason for removal and ultimate TPR is largely due to poverty.
I second the idea that the option of an open adoption thru the foster care system is a politically correct way of offering the birth family an option to still be able to see their children when they thenselves know they are not going to get it together enough to ever be reunified. It is a legal way to tear at the emotions of both the b-family and the a-family...each of whom are in a catch 22 of sorts. In this situation, unless there IS an open adoption agreement in place, I would stand firm to what YOU want and feel comfortable with. It seems as though THEY have controlled the situation up until now, and they need to learn what boundaries are. We have a legal agreement, and I had to litterally copy and mail it to b-mom after our visit earlier this year as she was pushing for more and more visits. My opinion was that the terms in the agreement were what I felt comfortable with, had I wanted anything more, I would have agreed upon that. I know once I put my foot down, they realized that WE are the parents and WE would further call the shots. Even more so this last visit when DH put b-mom on the spot about her coming "court date"...asking why she was having to go to court. Go figure...possession! WE will will not tollerate our son being exposed to this, and have made it very clear. Over the last year, I have come to the conclusion that open adoption thru foster care is NOT always a positive thing, and the idea that doing something that is "in the best interest of the child(ren)" has become lost in the world of "political correctness". I may get blasted for saying so, but my son gains nothing from these forced visits with people who are basically utter strangers twice a year.
I think at some point you have to help your children let go of the past. Taking them to see people that you are not comfortable with is something they will pick up on. If you have a real good open relationship with the bparents and they are not still dealing with whatever issues that put their children into care in the first place, then maybe it would be ok. But they were still removed for a reason. At some point you have to realize the courts thought you were the parent for this child, not the bparents.
My fd right now just sobs when she is leaving her visits with her parents. It is like she is emotionally spent. When I pick her up and hold her she calms down right away. She still loves her parents but even at 3 and a half knows this isn't working for her anymore. With limited vocabulary (she has speech delays) she has even said she doesn't want to go back. What good would an open adoption do for her?
The focus is supposed to be on the children. NOT what is best for the bparents so they don't get upset. They had their chance, now give the children a chance to thrive without them.
KimberlyKat
I just got all upset when friends started telling me that Grandma could go to court and get court ordered visits if she established regular visits were going on.I don't want Grandma getting unsupervised visits with Savannah if she goes to court. I just an worried now that she can take it to court under Grandparents rights .
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November 4, 2007
We are about to finalize the adoption of our 2 kids in a couple of days, and we too were told to think about an open adoption. And we agreed because we thought it would all but guarentee the kids staying with us and also because we thought it would be in the kids best interest to have some form of contact with the bps. Our case is different in that my DH is in the Navy and we are leaving Hawaii on Dec. 1, so visitation will not really be an issue once we leave... So tha leaves letters and phone calls..... However, as time has passed, I have come to realize that even though TPR has happened, I feel that these people still have a responsibility to be a decent and positive people in their lives. The kids have already learned a major life lesson from them: how not to be. But as long as these parents continue to commit crimes, do drugs, go to jail, carelessly create other children, etc. They are not the type of contact with their birth family that they need. Many days I wished that I could wave a magic wand and make them disappear. But without them, I would not have 2 of my children. You are now the mom. Its your job and responsibility to provide her with a stable life. And you have done that and the court agreed to let you do that by allowing you to adopt. Gma can fight for custody, but I doubt there is a lawyer anywhere that would take the case, its simply unwinnable. Continue you the visits as you see fit, and with how S feels. Now the situation is not about their feelings, its about S. She is 8 and is capable of understanding and having some input. If she is ok with not seeing them until Christmas, well, then thats how it is too be.
Navy Rp Wife, hi I completly understand. I to am a Navy wife. We thought the same thing about transfering, and the family kinda being phased out. So far the birth mom's still angry she blames me for loosing her kids. As far as contact with my kids, No way! I keep contact with the family just so my kids will know who their birth family is. Other than that they are not stable enough to be around my children. Same issues, drugs ect..
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