How will attachment therapy help?

Thanks for attempting to explain more of what you're seeing.I agree with Linny. I don't think attachment therapy will help you attach to them. I also think that it's okay to admit that it isn't working and that what's best for the kids may be a different family. Trying a therapy just to say you've tried everything is likely to be an exercise in futility. Unless you can honestly want to work hard to make it work, therapy won't help. It might be better to move forward with disruption rather than prolonging it. It won't get easier with time. I doubt that after therapy you'll all of a sudden feel at peace about disrupting. You can't properly parent like this as you have stated. What is best for the kids? To drag it out and extend the time you have together before disrupting? I'm not sure. The only thing I see coming out of this therapy is possibly getting your husband to understand where you are and what you are going through. You can't be the mom you want to be without his help and support. Suck it up and bear your cross is not support.

I believe attachment therapy may help. Attachment therapy is not just for the kids, its for the entire family, teaching and leading attachment. It sounds to me like they have very RAD behaviors. They are pushing you away. If their behaviors reduce, you may find it easier to bond with them. There was a time when I couldn't bare to even be in the room with my daughter. She would push, irritate and control with the goal of me leaving. We are human, so it worked. Attachment therapy helped. It was for me more than her actually. I saw first hand how hurt she was. I saw how scared she was. Yes, I knew she was hurt and scared, but in therapy I saw it more clearly. That helped me. During those few hours a week, I saw a wounded child. I kept that image in my mind throughout the week and, as a result, I could tolerate more. I think it depends on where you are. Do you want to fix it? You need to honestly ask yourself that. If you don't, then disrupt. If you do, it will be a lot of work on everyone's part. You situation as it is now is not acceptable for any of you.

If attachment therapy is something you want to pursue, one option is finding a therapist who is trained in Theraplay, which is a specific type of attachment therapy most often used with adoptive families. I've seen it be very effective, both with peers and professionally. Ask the therapist for credentials, program outline, etc. i can give you more info on how it works if you have questions.

I wish you the best and hope you try therapy. Try to prepare yourself emotionally/mentally to pursue it. You stated they have NO trauma because you've had them since they were babies. I would like to point out that trauma can occur in the womb.

Thanks for the bump up- time for an update. Thank you also, to the 2 folks that PM'd me. We had an initial, (and of course due to stupid insurance/requirements, for now, our only) appt with the therapy team. They listened to what was going on and immediately pointed to our marriage and decided that was the larger issue. I don't wholly agree with that, but I guess being on the brink of divorce isn't exactly helping things either. Let me be clear, we are only in turmoil over the kiddos. As I've read elsewhere, parents of children w special needs are always more likely to divorce. This now makes perfect sense, and sadly seems to be inevitable at the moment. We cannot agree on how to proceed. My husband wants to parent these kids, and I do not feel I can. Up to this point, I have been the one leading the charge in getting these children the support they need. I have every therapist, psychiatrist, OT, wraparound, etc on speed dial. I go to every appointment, beg for help, etc. I go to therapy for myself. I have read every book I can get my hands on, tried different techniques, changed the way we feed them, signed them up for therapeutic summer camp, enrolled them in after-school activities, seen specialists to rule out medical issues. I have actually shouldered the cross!!! (see my previous post for 'cross' reference) The therapists' recommendation was for him to work on becoming a better husband and father- and I am totally in support of that. But, particularly for these children that are SO hard to parent, I'm worried he won't be able to do it, at least not in time to save the marriage/family. He has childhood trauma that he not dealt with- and I have asked him for the span of our marriage to go to counseling. All of these things are not surprisingly compounding and I see so much of his previous trauma coming back into play. I absolutely understand why he won't give up on these kids, as they represent his younger self, the boy who WAS given up on. And, darn it, I LOVE him for all of that. But that still doesn't mean he has what it takes to support me, to appropriately parent them. There is a ton of inappropriate parenting going on in our house, for which we are both at fault. The difference, as I (finally) see it, is I have identified everything and worked HARD to make changes, improvements. He has not supported me effectively, and made zero effort to change his parenting approach. He insists that he will parent our adopted 2 as a single dad. I fear for everyone if that becomes a reality. But mostly I mourn for our two bio's that will lose out on a full-time dad, a "complete" family. I don't know what to do- the therapist also warned me that if we proceed with dissolution I may very lose my family anyway because my husband will be overcome with resentment over dissolving. If anyone has suggestions, words of encouragement, I would gladly take them.

So, not to be snarky, but you feel that your limited knowledge of RAD based on internet research and reading books trumps that of a therapy team? Do they have experience with attachment disorders because you had talked about attachment therapy? See, here's the problem I see. . . . . you are projecting your lack of attachment onto them. It's very possible they are attached to you and are acting out to get more of your attention. They can tell you don't feel the same about them that you do about your bios. You've got a situation where you are applying a label that others don't agree with, kids that want desperately to be loved by the only mom they have ever known and who don't/can't understand why you don't love them the same as your bios. Negative attention is better than no attention. If that's all they can get from you, they'll take it. I think that if you want to save your marriage, you need to at least for now, give up on getting a RAD diagnosis. There's so many other things that could be causing the same symptoms and honestly, there's no real trauma in their lives unless you inflicted it. And focus instead on working on your marriage. You might be surprised at how they change if you can change your opinion towards them and if your marriage gets more stable. Kids can tell when they are in an unstable situation.I hope you can save your marriage, but you sound more like you expect him to change, accept every diagnosis you've decided on and disrupt an adoption he doesn't feel needs to be disrupted. You will have to choose.Divorce sucks. I've been there as the child and the adult. But worse is being in a home with unhappy parents. This question isn't for you to answer to me, but yourself and I mean no judgement by them. - What are you willing to do to save your marriage? What is more important to you - disrupting the adoption or your marriage? I'm truly sorry you're going through such a hard time, but my sympathy is still with these 2 children you adopted. You have some hard decisions to make. When I was facing my divorce and struggling to make a decision I read a book called something like "Too good to leave, too bad to stay." It was a series of questions to ask yourself and they told you whether your answer was significant. For example, the question that clinched it for me was "If God gave you permission, would you feel you could leave." For me it was an immediate and unhesitating yes, which meant I did need to leave. But the book was about helping you determine whether or not you had something worth saving still, or if you'd be happier leaving. Maybe you would find it helpful.luluwaits - I'm sorry but developmentally a fetus is not able to experience emotional trauma. The only trauma that could occur in womb would be either physical or medical. If drugs were done during pregnancy it could interupt the development process. If an accident or violence occured against a pregnant woman, the fetus could receive physical trauma. But nothing that would cause RAD. There is NO evidence that emotional trauma can occur in utero.

I like when someone says "not to be snarky" and then does it anyway. Hill, I hear you- you're concerned about the children. We've previously had this discussion, perhaps you've forgotten. I'm concerned for them too! I don't know how to do anything different than what's been happening and have exhausted all my emotional resources doing what I've tried so far. My husband has been (and really, continues to be) unsupportive. He doesn't know how to do anything differently, and until I brought it to his attention, he thought this was just how families act. I have run out of resources- he will not attend marriage counseling with me, he is starting individual therapy as I mentioned, but he has to do his own trauma work before even getting to a space where he can work on our marriage/support me emotionally as I battle TWO emotionally draining children and parent two others and run a household. When I say I am seeking a RAD diagnosis, i really could care less what letters they assign to my children as long as someone gives me USEFUL support. Actual, helpful, supportive resources. NO ONE has done this, and attachment-based therapy is our last hope, and, almost exclusively that is reserved for children with a RAD diagnosis. My son has a play therapist who is trying, and working with me. We continue to ask, but I just don't know how long, how much more I can endure. ITS ME- I'm saying the problem is me. I'm a bad parent to these two children. I HAVE tried to work on my marriage- I'm in therapy, trying anything the two of us can think of. I can't save my marriage by myself. I'm not placing all of the blame on him, but I AM saying that I have put time and effort into saving this sinking ship and more and more, realizing he hasn't/can't. I come back to your words about projection- do you have a (helpful) suggestion about how to stop doing that? Let's assume you're right- that they are healthily attached to me, and I'm just projecting my issues onto them. What does that look like? And wouldn't that mean that my husband, who believes he is at least appropriately attached to our AD, would have a much easier time parenting her? Even he would admit that's not the case... Thank you-ish, for your response. I do hear what you're saying, and I know you are most certainly in the majority. If I knew what to do to make it different, I would.

Miss S, I think you have to make a decision.You sound like your're in the same place you were a week or so ago. Nothing seems to have changed. Nothing in your attitude, nothing in your actions. The only thing you can control is your attitude and your actions. If you can't change your attitude towards these kids, you NEED to disrupt for their sake. At least one of my points, is that the RAD diagnosis doesn't apply here as there is no trauma. And it seems that multiple therapists have now told you that. They also seem to be pointing to other issues in your life that are a bigger concern and do have major impact on kids. I don't think you can get help for the kids issues until you work on what the therapists want you to work on. If he won't go to marriage counseling, then it might be time to move on. I'm sorry about that. There's no reason why he can't be in individual counseling and marriage counseling at the same time. They aren't mutually exclusive. While some of his past trauma certainly impacts your marriage, there are still things he could be working on that might help, if you were doing counseling together. I guess, what I keep coming back to,is sometimes you do just have to move on. Sometimes it's what is best for everyone. You seem to be stuck in your decision making process, like I was about my divorce. That's why I thought the book I read might be helpful. I do feel for you and the kids, but at some point, you have to make a decision to do something to change the situation for everyone. And right now, you are the only one who can do that.Here's the book I referenced. [url=http://www.amazon.com/Too-Good-Leave-Bad-Stay-ebook/dp/B002JPGQ34/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392810350&sr=1-1&keywords=too+good+to+leave+too+bad+to+stay]Amazon.com: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship eBook: Mira Kirshenbaum: Books[/url]

possibly OT but I just wanted to second that book recommendation to anyone struggling with whether to stay in a relationship. It helped me tremendously with deciding what to do about my marriage 15 yrs ago. Also I agree that there should not be RAD here as the children have been with you their entire lives. It sounds to me as if you are the one who is not attached and perhaps there is a way for therapy to work on that issue? Sadly, I do not see any way for you to disrupt the children's adoptions without inflicting devastating emotional damage. I do not say this to make you feel worse, but because it needs to be considered.

This seems to really illustrate what you and others have described as the problem. You are battling two of your children and parenting the other two. Can you stop battling them - not do you think that they are in a place where you will be able to do this, but are you capable of not battling them but of parenting them? Maybe you need to not be in therapy to try to save your marriage, but to deal with your own issues that are getting in your way. For what it's worth as a therapist I have often found that my patients who are having trouble with attachment with their kids often have some sort of attachment issues themselves. I'm not saying this is the case with you, because you're not my patient, as far as I know I've never met you, and it would be foolish for anyone on here to think we can tell you what your problems are. However, trying to fix your marriage, kids, etc. without first looking at yourself, or dealing with your issues in an attempt to fix your marriage or kids, is likely not going to work. Do you want to relate to people and the world differently? If so, try talking to your therapist about that - the idea that the way you are in the world and with the people you love is not working for you, and you want to do things differently for yourself. If you don't, and your focus really is on changing your kids or your marriage, things are likely to keep going the same way that they have been.

Thank you again to the PMers- please consider sharing all of your kind words and thoughts with everyone?! I think it would help more than just me. No, you're right, I haven't made the decision to get a divorce or dissolve two adoptions in the last week- I came here seeking help and support. I am finding judgement instead. I am going to disagree- While the DSM V may indeed insist that trauma be present in the first few years, I tend to believe there is life outside the DSM. Perhaps you do not. I feel you want to blame me for all of my children's struggles. I am a confident enough person to know that this is not accurate. You may be able to bully other people around with your judgements and condescension but I will not be one of them. You're right again- we may never be able to get past our own issues to get to a point where we can work on parenting- somewhere I read that children w/RAD have a tendency to strain marriages and bring out emotional issues in the parents....but I guess since my kids don't have RAD, this doesn't apply to me. Thank you, hill, for angering me enough to fight another day- to make sure that mothers, parents out there who feel the same way I do hear me saying I am going to fight another day. I AM stuck- but I am fighting. Thanks, ruth, for your thoughtful words. I don't want to relate to the world differently. I really don't- I want to relate to my two adopted children differently, but generally feel I am a pretty sane person otherwise.(for now) I have loving relationships with my family and friends and believe it or not, my husband. IF we divorce, it will be only because we cannot co-parent these children anymore, not because we do not love and respect each other. I also like your focus on the word battle- I find even when I attempt a positive interaction, it becomes negative, thus becoming a battle. I definitely have a snarky side with my children (WHAT!) and my defenses are up with them because I have been so hurt and so pushed away. I do not know if I can overcome that. Yes, but I fear that if we do not disrupt and make significant, (and seemingly impossible) changes, the same outcome will befall all of us. I had a great role model for motherhood. My mother loves us all deeply and unconditionally- my fear is that I will not be able to give that to them, and they deserve it! What will they look like as adults if they do not get that immensely important piece?? Thanks again everyone, even you, hill, for helping me think critically about this. This obviously weighs heavily on my mind each and every day, and it is helpful to be heard.

I did not read all of the responses. The children could have attachment problems because amom could not attach to them which caused them trauma-sorry, but that's a possibility. If your marriage isn't working out and dad wants to leave and parent the adopted children, he should. They are children and it's not okay to decide they are too much trouble to parent. They are human beings. They aren't dangerous. However, if you don't like them, and dad loves them like they are his, then let go and let them stay with the parent that can attach to them-problems and all. My son had a horrific past and is still dealing with things that make relationships hard but he's a very good father and his daughter comes first. Children are highly perceptive and I would bet that despite your actions, they can sense that you love their siblings more then them is this is more likely the problem then RAD. Even if dad moves out with the adoptive children, he can still be dad to the bio kids as well.

Miss S, How are things going now? Any better? I'm so sorry that you're living in this impossible hell where good options don't exist. As sad as it is for your children that you're not attached to them and as much harm as that may have caused I don't believe it's fair to place blame. We don't choose our emotions and we can only do so much to affect them and it sounds like you are through therapy. I'm sure if you could change the way you feel and view your children you would. I don't doubt that your kids have some kind of emotional problems, some that may have been caused or worsened by your relationship, but I wonder if maybe their problems and behaviors feel worse to you because you're not attached to them. Biology has given us the wonderful hormone oxytocin that starts flowing when you have a baby and make you fall in love with the baby. If that didn't happen to mothers chances are pretty good than many moms would abandon that screaming, needy, messy little creature and the baby would subsequently die. In that sense moms have to fall in love with their babies to ensure the survival of our specie. Moms have to sacrifice themselves almost completely when the kids are small but they do it because they love the child. If you don't fall in love with the child, however, all the things moms can put up with otherwise become intolerable. Now, your oldest kids are not only "ordinarily annoying". They have additional problems, whatever the cause. Not being able to tolerate the regular bad stuff the extra just breaks the camel's back. The only solution to this problem that I can see is if you would develop those feelings for your kids but is that possible at this point? Or has it gone too far? It would be like trying to fall in love with your husband again when your marriage has fallen apart and your on the brink of divorce. Can we make our emotions do that? At this point, you have to do whatever would be best for these two kids. Whatever you do everyone is going to be hurt. There is no way around that. But you should do what will cause the least amount of long term damage to your oldest children. My opinion, which may of course be way wrong, is that the best thing for them is to dissolve the adoptions in the best way possible with professional help and careful planning in the process (no quick placement with the first home studied family that expresses interest, etc.). Staying in a situation this infected with a mother who doesn't love or want them will cause major damage and as a result their behaviors will likely get worse. Dissolving the adoption will also leave scars but it will give them the opportunity to develop new, loving and lasting relationships that can function as the base we all need to be whole adults. Keeping the kids, imo, is not fair to them and it definitely should not be done in hopes of saving your marriage. Of course your husband has to be on board with this since he's their parent just as much as you are. If he won't support a dissolution your only option may be to let him have the older kids. And you know what, it may not be that bad of an idea. Of course he doesn't know what he's in for but he will soon and he may just rise to the occasion. Since he's more attached the frustrations may be easier for him to deal with. Maybe you would do a better job as a part time mom to them. But whatever you do, don't allow things to remain the way they are for those kids. If you can't love them and want them don't keep them! Let your husband raise them or find them a family who think they are the best thing ever. I hope things will get easier for all of you soon. Good Luck!

I truly believe people adopt with the best of intentions. You have heard opinions and you have expressed that you know that the largest current issues are (1) your ability to parent these children as they deserve, and (2) your husband's lack of involvement to date in parenting these children, coupled with his desire to continue parenting these children with or without you. I am not judging. I only ask that, if you are not willing to parent these children but your husband is, and your marriage is disintegrating due to the issues with regards to these children, why not let let him experience parenting the children as a single parent firsthand? Have you considered that this might be best for the children? Yes, your bio kids will miss out on having a full-time dad. However, he will still be their dad, and rather than disrupting and placing these children in a damaging situation with strangers, why not allow their father to remain that? While I recognize this is not the "ideal" answer, you must at least consider what is best for these children. Your bio kids will still have YOU. Your husband may very well step up once he is truly, solely responsible. And these adopted children who are still so very young will have continued support from a parent, and will also still have you in their lives in some way. Since your husband has issues of abandonment, this may turn out to be the best thing for both the children AND him (even if you see him as lacking at this point). Please, please consider everyone, not just you and your bio kids. Again, not judging, just asking that to fix this, you consider something that may be painful short-term but good for everyone involved long-term. I think that you should also still go forward with attachment counseling for these issues. If the situation I describe above happens, it will help you to deal with this situation as well. Whatever happens, I wish all of you well and hope that this works out for the best for everyone. Please keep us updated.

I think you should go to a nice counsellor. He will definetly provide you with best solution for your problem. For more information visit [URL="http://lifetrackcounseling.com"]family counseling Littleton CO[/URL]. I love kids and have 1 adopted kid of 6. I just love him so much.