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I was reading this article about black middle class kids and how they adjust to various peers.
[url=http://aliciapatterson.org/APF1002/Lane/Lane.html]Children of the Black Middle Class[/url]
I am sure my babies will have a few issues when they get bigger and get out in the world. First of all they will most likely be very literate and well spoken and I doubt if they will have any particular accent. (My Athena's diction is just superb even at 2.) I don't know what their preferences will be in clothing and music and so on, and I wonder how they will adjust to various different peer groups that they may encounter. Just reading about these kids makes me think that the same issues will be present with my kids and even more accentuated.
Here is one part of the article that I was thinking about.
Both children, products of private schools, have two groups of best friends. At school, those friends are white. Weekends, holidays and vacations, they are black.
For Erika, having two groups of friends, and adhering to an unwritten social code, means some subjects are taboo with even best friends. "When I talk about boys, I cant talk to Katherine (who is white). But I can with Dyan. ItҒs hard to explain why."
Although the Gibson children agree that their parents and relatives dont have an "ethnic" way of talking or walking, they act out the stereotype in fear that they will be shunned by some blacks.
Like others interviewed, the Gibson youngsters said they can assume "black" and "white" mannerisms, depending upon who theyҒre with.
"When Im with my black friends I donҒt walk straight, my shoulders are down, I kind of bob up and down when I walk, and I dress and speak differently," said Bert Gibson. "The black kids wear white sneakers and are furious if someone steps on them. The white guys wear Izod shirts and sweaters tied around their shoulders."
Like chameleons, they move spontaneously between what they perceive as racial mannerismsa cultural schizophrenia.
A few days earlier, Erika had run into Michelle, a black girl, "I said ֑hey, how ya doin. Whuts up."
Moments later, Erika said, she ran into Katherine. "My speech pattern, my whole attitude changed."
Sometimes the Gibson teens practice dances together that black friends will expect them to know. Bert plays basketball in Harlem and learns the moves up there.
"I wonҒt do that dance at my school until it catches on with white kids," said Bert. "Then I pretend Ive just learned it."
I'm not sure I am going to take any action, just observing and wondering. What are your thoughts on this? If you have older kids, what have you noticed with regard to this sort of thing?
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I tell my kids that no one's better than anyone else; them included and they don't get to judge people. I also tell them first impressions are important. If someone hears them talking slang/hip hop and wearing baggy pants, they'll get a negative impression; it's not fair but it is what it is.
That being said, I get compliments all the time on my oldest, who is now 15 and a darker complected teenager. I get how he can carry an intelligent conversation with an adult/how "nice" he is, etc. So far I've looked at it as teaching others. Maybe people won't be so quick to judge.
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Reading this reminded me of when I was a teenager, in Hawaii. My father was career military and was transferred to Hawaii when I was 15. My high school was less than 10% white, and almost all of the white kids had fathers in the military. Most of them stuck together but I didn't feel like I fit in with them. I soon found local friends and a local boyfriend, and learned to speak Pidgin English. I spoke totally differently with my friends than I did with my family. It never dawned on me that anyone would think there was anything wrong, or worrisome, about it. I think most teenagers speak and behave differently with their friends than with their parents, to some extent. I didn't read all of that article, but it doesn't sound like the kids used the different language and other behaviors because they felt like they wouldn't be safe, or anything like that. I'd like to know what the kids, whom I guess would be 40ish now, would say about it all, now. There certainly weren't many black kids adopted by white parents in their age group. We first started looking into transracial adoption 1976 and were told no so many times that we stopped asking. Ironically, it was when we stopped asking that we were offered a biracial baby, in 1989. He now says that he feels there are a lot of advantages to growing up in a multiracial home. He is comfortable with people of every race and combination there is and realizes that not everyone is. He primarily sees himself as a black man and he does wear baggy pants, but so does his older brother, who is white (and his other white brother used to, too). Its just what they choose. My 16 year old son, who is very black, uses fewer of what would be considered AA mannerisms than my biracial son. I am just glad they all feel free to be themselves!Noelani
Having a dual identity is a given for middle class blacks. Until AA's have a more balanced socioeconomic span things are going to stay the way they are...
The article is from the 80's and things were point on for that time period because I was in high school in college during that time. It really depends on where you live and how isolated your kids may be. Some areas have evolved and some haven't change one bit. The high school my kids will be attending is stuck in a time warp.
Paranoia... isn't that a requirement for having a black card?
Most do switch on various levels regardless of race etc;Actually I am in my 40s, and Black as is my DH. I think there are a few others around..so you can find the answers based on their experience. lol My dh was called a spear chucker, and jungle bunny etc while in prep school. Funny thing is my son who is raised in the burbs. He came home saying similar that his peers all interact with racial jokes. Black jokes, red neck jokes, Latino jokes. The article is about middle class Blacks who were raising Black kids back when, experience of same race to same race. The OP is applying it to the TRA section for opinions. Funny my kids (AA) are exposed to the same you just mentioned. to all types of people and experiences. Which is why I use class levels or area differences when discussing such.
noelani2
Reading this reminded me of when I was a teenager, in Hawaii. My father was career military and was transferred to Hawaii when I was 15. My high school was less than 10% white, and almost all of the white kids had fathers in the military. Most of them stuck together but I didn't feel like I fit in with them. I soon found local friends and a local boyfriend, and learned to speak Pidgin English. I spoke totally differently with my friends than I did with my family. It never dawned on me that anyone would think there was anything wrong, or worrisome, about it. I think most teenagers speak and behave differently with their friends than with their parents, to some extent. I didn't read all of that article, but it doesn't sound like the kids used the different language and other behaviors because they felt like they wouldn't be safe, or anything like that. I'd like to know what the kids, whom I guess would be 40ish now, would say about it all, now. There certainly weren't many black kids adopted by white parents in their age group. We first started looking into transracial adoption 1976 and were told no so many times that we stopped asking. Ironically, it was when we stopped asking that we were offered a biracial baby, in 1989. He now says that he feels there are a lot of advantages to growing up in a multiracial home. He is comfortable with people of every race and combination there is and realizes that not everyone is. He primarily sees himself as a black man and he does wear baggy pants, but so does his older brother, who is white (and his other white brother used to, too). Its just what they choose. My 16 year old son, who is very black, uses fewer of what would be considered AA mannerisms than my biracial son. I am just glad they all feel free to be themselves!Noelani
The article being from 1987, I can relate to it a bit. I lived in a majority AA suburb a good portion of my childhood, and went to the local public school, and then a private school which was about 50/40/10 white/black/Asian. In elementary school (public), there were not many issues with being friends with white or black kids or how anyone talked. Once we got to middle school though, it changed, and some of the black friends I had would act different if other black kids came around. I noticed the same thing with my friends in private school, when they were with friends who did not go to the same school.My DH and I kind of wonder how all our kids will talk, if they will end up having the local Maryland/Bawlmer accent or not. Mine comes out more when I'm with local friends than just at home with DH. When I worked, I could certainly speak properly with no accent (at least I think so!).Most of the black kids/young adults I see in this area dress more preppy (polo shirts, jeans), than what you see in inner city Baltimore.
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I think about this all the time. I live in a very diverse neighborhood (although it seems to be getting a lot more asian). Kids are completely mixed by race in grade school. I can't really tell a middle schooler from a high school kid but it seems that by high school, I don't see as many mixed race groups of kids. I really wonder why. And I really wonder where my son will fit in. He is aa/cc but looks more hispanic. I wish I could tell the future so I knew what to teach him and prepare him for.
When I was in graduate school, the term they used to describe this was "code switching." I've always assumed that D would do this to some extent. Maybe it's just me, but I'm less worried about him talking differently with his Black friends than I am about him feeling like he doesn't know HOW to speak, act, etc. in order to fit in comfortably and seamlessly. The struggle I hear a lot of adult TRA's express is that they COULDN'T do that. I remember in one video, John Raible talks about feeling like he didn't know the "secret handshake." He couldn't figure out how to fit in socially with the group of other Black kids in high school and it took him several difficult years to feel like he fit in.
To some extent, we all do this. I use terms and make jokes with my gay friends that I don't with my straight friends. But when people straddle a racial or class divide, then it's going to be more pronounced. It is an indiciation of the fact that our kids (really all Black kids, not just Black TRA's) have a harder job socially because they have to work to fit in with different groups. But the ability to do so seems like an adaptive behavior to me, rather than a problem, per se.
Nick - I love your descriptions of the way you talk to your kids and how you open up dialogue about these kinds of things to help them understand and navigate them. You sound like an amazing mom. I saw the other thread and went and read the PACT article about private schools. It was interesting. I'm really thinking about that now as we start considering where D is going to go to school. It's frustrating how few places we're finding with the kind of diversity in both the students and the staff that the kids were talking about.
When kids hit middle school or high school they are most likely starting to model their parents behavior. If their parents don't have a diverse group of friends the kids start picking up on that and following the same behavior.
Something I noticed and found fascinating is the behavior I see in my kids martial arts classes. The little kids group is ages 3-5 and they don't care who they sit or stand next to for the most part. If someone is annoying them they might move but usually the instructor will initiate the move.
The middle elementary & middle schoolers are a totally different thing. When the kids are told to go and sit on the carpet there are certain ones who will segregate by race... if someone of another color sits by them they will get up and move... I kid you not. It's kind of silly for them to do it because the class is always lined up by belt rankings so they can't control who they stand next to during class. It's not a case of them wanting to sit next to someone they know either. It's pretty obvious who is friends and who isn't. There are many classes held everyday and they are open 6 days a week so there are days the the kids won't know anyone in their class. I usually match up the kids to the parents and the parents have the exact same behavior. The parents who will sit next to anyone or talk anyone have kids who do the same. I've noticed this behavior mostly in girls...
I can see that this article is older. This is something that has been going on for as long as I can remember.
The twist for my situation is that I grew up in "the hood", low income or more appropriately " no income" . I did not have two sets of friends. All my friends were black, but many wouldn't accept the fact that I didn't speak like them. My mother let me know then that you have to be bilingual to get through. She would not allow me to use "ain't" for instance. When with my friends I would.
Now I live in the suburbs and have joined the ranks of middle class. My husband is white and I even notice that now as an adult I still have to be bilingual to build a rapport. Being a medical professional it has been helpful and allows for trust from all of my patients.
So the point is this is something that I think anyone who has dealt with socioeconomic transfers and not just racial.
My oldest (17) experiences it more than my youngest (9). Maybe because her school is much more diverse.
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Thanks OakShannon that's a sweet thing to say. Lots of great moms here, so I am in good company. :-) It's a lot to mull over with private schools, I am learning to ask on how flexible the curriculum is with embracing diversity. Even of they do not have the actual student/teacher body.. what is the recruitment tactics to solve this? Even the non-minority kids can learn a lot, and can help the minority kids feel more accepted. Another tactic that seems to be a good idea is pairing up a new family with an established family.. Yes so true with the navigation aspect...between the socioecon. class levels, and/or social circles. As for the code switching, we have had fun thus far with our conversations. lolAs adults some of us feel that such aspects of growing up is a non issue but for kids and especially some personality types fitting in..not being the different one..is a HUGE issue.
OakShannon
When I was in graduate school, the term they used to describe this was "code switching." I've always assumed that D would do this to some extent. Maybe it's just me, but I'm less worried about him talking differently with his Black friends than I am about him feeling like he doesn't know HOW to speak, act, etc. in order to fit in comfortably and seamlessly. The struggle I hear a lot of adult TRA's express is that they COULDN'T do that. I remember in one video, John Raible talks about feeling like he didn't know the "secret handshake." He couldn't figure out how to fit in socially with the group of other Black kids in high school and it took him several difficult years to feel like he fit in. To some extent, we all do this. I use terms and make jokes with my gay friends that I don't with my straight friends. But when people straddle a racial or class divide, then it's going to be more pronounced. It is an indiciation of the fact that our kids (really all Black kids, not just Black TRA's) have a harder job socially because they have to work to fit in with different groups. But the ability to do so seems like an adaptive behavior to me, rather than a problem, per se.Nick - I love your descriptions of the way you talk to your kids and how you open up dialogue about these kinds of things to help them understand and navigate them. You sound like an amazing mom. I saw the other thread and went and read the PACT article about private schools. It was interesting. I'm really thinking about that now as we start considering where D is going to go to school. It's frustrating how few places we're finding with the kind of diversity in both the students and the staff that the kids were talking about.
Sleep, why do you say kids model their parents in more in middle school and high school? I am not challenging you. I am really just curious. In terms of transracial adoption issues, this topic is the one I worry about most. It just drives me nuts when I see all these mono race groups walking home from high school together. My foreign exchange student saw it as spanish speaking cliques versus english speaking cliques. But I still think I see the racial segregation going on.
Its okay I see what you want to know҅ It drives me crazy but it is what it is. Big boy is 20 years old so we've been through this already. I keep thinking things have changed since I was a child but they havent. I see the same cycle repeating with my 5 year olds.
I think it's around middle school that parents start exerting more influence. Don't socialize with this person or that one҅ are they are picking up on the silent cues their parents are sending? Do their parents only socialize in segregated environments? Middle school is really when those divisions show I think it fueled by parentŒs fear of interracial dating and stereotypes more than common interests.
Ive had a pretty bad summer due to a combination of things which include neighbor problems. Some parents just donҒt want their kids playing with kids outside their race. Then the kids dont want their same race friends playing with kids outside their race. You just wonҒt believe the foolishness that goes along with all that. They are all late elementary school and middle school. I hate going outside now I had to tell my kids you can only play with so and so when those kids are not out. I had no choice to do that because the kids are bullies and verbally abusive. This how some groups become segregated... a bully will dictate who their friends can associate with and cliques form.
I see this myself..it depends on the parents. It's would be interesting to see how it factors in with CC tra vs Black parents. Many people like having that commonality to relate to. One or two token Black kid in an elementary school is okay..but later on certain factors does seem to divide. There are kids who do okay and stick with an integrated group, or is the integrator. Someone does not fit into their similar hued group, there is some disconnect. My dh is very experienced in this type of environment, so I value his input. I am not pleased at the little progress as I view my 2 older kids peer relationships thus far. I also wanted to make a comment on the White with Black skin remark above, its a good visual type explanation of how some Black kids end up viewing them-self. This self perception can create issues.We started to discuss this with our oldest..one funny thing recently a friend lamented on how they missed him at school.. his reply? so invite me to your house.
Sleeplvr
It’s okay I see what you want to know… It drives me crazy but it is what it is. Big boy is 20 years old so we've been through this already. I keep thinking things have changed since I was a child but they haven’t. I see the same cycle repeating with my 5 year olds. I think it's around middle school that parents start exerting more influence. Don't socialize with this person or that one… are they are picking up on the silent cues their parents are sending? Do their parents only socialize in segregated environments? Middle school is really when those divisions show… I think it fueled by parent’s fear of interracial dating and stereotypes more than common interests. I’ve had a pretty bad summer due to a combination of things which include neighbor problems. Some parents just don’t want their kids playing with kids outside their race. Then the kids don’t want their same race friends playing with kids outside their race. You just won’t believe the foolishness that goes along with all that. They are all late elementary school and middle school. I hate going outside now… I had to tell my kids you can only play with so and so when those kids are not out. I had no choice to do that because the kids are bullies and verbally abusive. This how some groups become segregated... a bully will dictate who their friends can associate with and cliques form.
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What's the expression? The older you get the more you become like your parents... I see it all the time.
One of the best bits of advice my mother gave me was you shouldn't give your baggage to your children for them to carry. Let them create and make their own baggage if they have any...they don't need yours.