Ok...I need advice please,
My wife and have been fostering 2 children (FS,3 & FD,2) since February. In late July, we were placed with their older brothers, which are twins (6 and not identical). We both new that the older boys would be a challenge considering their nick-names were hurricane and tornado....
We are having great difficulty with the older of the 2 twins. When school began, he was having issues staying in his seat on the bus. He was mis-behaving in school. Kicking and punching... in school or on the bus... Not listening to the teacher or any teacher for that matter. His brother did the same but with much work, we were able to corale him and he has improved immensly:clap:
However, the older one doesnt seem to care. When we question him on his behavior he simply responds "Dad, I want my own way". I will give him this....He Honest!
To try and give positive encouragement, my wife would meet them at the bus stop and issue little candies if they were good throughout the day. This worked for a little while. We made sure to praise them no matter how little the object of that praise was and we still do. But now, he just doesnt want to do anything. At least once a day, I get a call or a note from school noting his unwillingness to do his work. The bus ride is big now. He and his brother acted up on the bus and I received notice that one more infraction and he will be off the bus for 3 days. After that, its indefinite as to how long. What kills me is that his bus ride is only 12 minutes long. He is the first to be dropped off and the last to be picked up. :grr: This past Saturday, I walked with them the 5 miles to school to show them that the bus ride is the best and funnest way to go to school and that it would be a shame to have to walk. ( now mind you, I would NEVER make them walk to school, but I was hoping that it would deter them from acting up on the bus.....and for now, it has made an impact)
What do you do with a 6 yr. old boy who wants his way??
My wife and I are out of ideas as to how to get him to change his mind. :grr:
While my 6yo BS is very strong willed, I say that God gave me him to prepare me for my 4 yo AS. You have to be consistant ALL THE TIME. Read all you can on natural consequences so you will be ready. One time letting it go and you will pay for it. My AS will test, test, test, take a few days break and then test, test, test some more. At first we chalked it up to his RAD. Then last summer they said he is completely attached, RAD no longer seems to be an issue and dx him with ADHD. The therapist then told me the challenging and strong will is just his personality. I about cried. Love him, but some days I have to take my own time-out.
When days get really bad with him what gets me through is knowing I was a very strong willed child and survived (though my mother says there were many times she understood why some animals eat their young).
ps - love the walking him to school idea, just be sure you follow through every time. If he is anything like my son, you will be walking a couple times one week, take a week break and walking a couple times again for several weeks before he gets tired of challenging that and moves onto something else.
Almost forgot -- be sure if you can request teachers/coaches/etc you always do. (At least with my sons) they will eat a person alive that is not firm and consistent with them. Took us many tries to find a babysitter that can handle them!!!
Just wondering... What does your school do for children who are misbehaving? Our school has them 'flip their color card. Neither my 6 or 4 year olds care about doing that. My 6 year old will flip it regularly once, but only from time to time twice b/c he has to miss some recess and go to bed 30 minutes early. My 4 yo laughs at flipping his card until they starting putting him in time-out. He wouldn't even sit in time-outs for them until I stepped in and started sending him straight to bed when he comes home with a note about refusing time out.
Don't want to start an uproar, but sometimes I really do wish the school could still give children a (reasonable) paddling! That would certainly stop my oldest in his tracks! Would never do that to my youngest b/c would bring up past issues.
sorry, trying to get too many things done at once, so my thoughts are scattered.
Another thing you might consider is reading up on the 5 love languages of children. This will help you learn if he prefers: quality time, gifts, acts of service, words of affirmation, or physical touch (ie hugs). Will make it easier to find out what it is he will be excited to work on earning.
We read up on it and realized my 6 yo is gifts and 4 yo is physical touch. My 6 yo likes to earn trips to the dollar store and 4 yo extra cuddle time after the other kiddos are in bed. I love that I know this about my kids and can express my love to them in a way that means the most to them.
dad101
Thank you so much for the info that has been shared. However, I think I need to clarify and add more details where I couldnt earlier for the sake of time.
He is not ADHD, he has regular, consistant consequences (loss of deserts, playtime, removal of preferred toys, time outs). Then for chores he has had sentences to write, long walks to school, added chores inside and outside, early bedtimes. In all of this he either refuses to do it or blames us because he has to. We lovingly but stearnly remind him that his choices have brought this about. To which he still is in his own reality and insists that we dont have to do this and to give him another chance. We have allowed him to pick his own reward even on a daily basis gradually working up to bigger weekly rewards. He doesnt care. He just tells us that we can give it to him anyway. He is willfull and head strong.
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OK. This helps. I have two suggestions #1: Stop engaging in so much dialog with FS on it. What I mean by that is that if you have a regular consequence already defined, he breaks a rule the consequence is immediately assigned (each and every time, never miss, never skip, never delay). End. Of. Subject. No debate. No discussion. No dialog. You can't stop him talking but YOU refuse to engage. What we do is in a very neutral manner, return FK to the task/consequence, repeat the behavior/choice and the task/consequense/expectation and walk away. rinse and repeat. (sometimes over and over and over).
#2 simply the rules, find his button and stick to it. I suggest that instead of having all of these various consequences you either let the natural consequence happen (ie having to walk home, no longer having a toy he breaks, etc) or pick just ONE imposed consequence. What is important to him, what does he really like or really hate? It will change with time, but find that one thing that has meaning. then use it as a consequence. Maybe it's going to bed (his room) early. Maybe it's a particulary chore. Or maybe it's having "time in" - having to be with you every moment doing what you are doing. Can you say b.o.r.i.n.g? Then you have to make him do it, consistantly, every time (while still refusing to engage in dialog about it! :) )
I know you said you are consistant...but then you also said he "refuses to do it". So that tells me sometimes he is able to get out of the consequence. This one is a smart cookie and will work any loophole you provide. You are going to have to tighten down on those loopholes. It is going to take an enormous amount of work on your part to extinquish this behavior.
I know you said he doesn't have any "issues" but you might still consider seeking out therapy for him. There is a root here...you can probably bring him around through harda$$ parenting, but it might be easier on all if you can get to the root of it and fix that.
Maybe you've already done this, but try to get more information. What is happening on the 12 min bus ride that evokes his behavior problems? Can he be seated away from everyone else?
Judo (any martial arts, really) could be helpful. It gives them an outlet, builds their self-confidence,and makes them feel 'in control.'
Something that works fairly well in our house for school issues is "if you dont want to work at school, you will work at home". They have an E, G, S, N, U behavior chart that gets sent home daily. Anything lower than E = workbook pages. The worse the behavior, the more work that must be done. Nothing else happens (except dinner, and bedtime) until the pages are done - no tv, playing, etc.
Behavior in class is markedly improved this year, and doing workbook pages has resulted in being ahead of all the other kids in her grade at her school! We have math, time, money, and reading workbooks at her grade level. It does mean that we need to sit down and help her through them, but I think the one on one time helps her as well.
Everybody has a currency and you need to find his. It can be a favorite food, a TV show, a video game, playing with friends, etc. When you find that, you use it as the leverage to help him choose the correct behavior. You can go so far as to take everything away if necessary and I mean everything down to the bed. Good behavior gets good rewards. Bad behavior gets removal of treasured items/currency. If it comes down to coming home from school and only being able to do homework and sit in the room alone only coming out to eat and then to bed, it will get tiring really fast.
icehockey101
Something that works fairly well in our house for school issues is "if you dont want to work at school, you will work at home". They have an E, G, S, N, U behavior chart that gets sent home daily. Anything lower than E = workbook pages. The worse the behavior, the more work that must be done. Nothing else happens (except dinner, and bedtime) until the pages are done - no tv, playing, etc.
Behavior in class is markedly improved this year, and doing workbook pages has resulted in being ahead of all the other kids in her grade at her school! We have math, time, money, and reading workbooks at her grade level. It does mean that we need to sit down and help her through them, but I think the one on one time helps her as well.
It sounds like this has worked for you, but it would not be something I would recommend normally. I don't like the idea of using learning as a punishment. I don't want my kids to associate math, reading, writing with being in trouble and being bad.
I understand that it has had a benefit for your child in that she is now ahead of the class, but it can have unintended deleterious effects as well. You don't want your kids resenting school work and learning.
I never really even liked the "writing sentences" punishment, and have never used it.
I might send a child to a room with books in it, and if it results in reading then fine. But the reading itself is not the punishment, the being confined to the room is.
Sounds like a solid plan though the child has no room to err at all through her whole day. I'm guessing that E being the highest is Excellent and I think on some level there should be room for a kid to have an oops now and then without being punished.
icehockey101
Something that works fairly well in our house for school issues is "if you dont want to work at school, you will work at home". They have an E, G, S, N, U behavior chart that gets sent home daily. Anything lower than E = workbook pages. The worse the behavior, the more work that must be done. Nothing else happens (except dinner, and bedtime) until the pages are done - no tv, playing, etc.
Behavior in class is markedly improved this year, and doing workbook pages has resulted in being ahead of all the other kids in her grade at her school! We have math, time, money, and reading workbooks at her grade level. It does mean that we need to sit down and help her through them, but I think the one on one time helps her as well.
:thanks: :thanks:
This is so great! I joined this site this morning and am very thankful for all the helpful advise.
I should also let you know that my wife and I both work in the boys classrooms 4 days a week. We are very much in touch with their teachers. I work 2 days a week from 9-12 and my wife works on alternate days, same time.
I totally agree that my endless dialogue must stop. I must confess that it easier than I thought to get sucked in to the bickering back and forth. I generally dont do that. Beginning now, things are going to change. Our minds are reeling with ideas having to do with the charts that were mentioned. My FS and I are going to make the 5 mile hike to school in the morning. When my wife asked him to get his clothes, backpack etc. ready, he just shrugged his shoulders as if nothing will happen. He will be surprised in the morning. :bullwhip:
I have to go... I have 4 hours of beauty sleep to get before I ruin my sons morning.... I truly love him.....all of them...
By the way.... all four children are siblings. As of a week ago Monday, were waiting on the Judge to see if he/she will terminate the mothers rights to the kids. Truly a sad situation, but the mother was given sooooooooo many oppertunities in the past year and half and yet she still does not have a grip on reality. I say all this because I know this is only the beginning of a hard reality for the kids if they rule against the Mother. My wife and I have been asked if we would adopt all four, to which we said YES! The older 6 yr old says he loves us and our home, but wants to go home to his real Mom. The younger says he loves us and wants us as his Mom and Dad. We will see what the Lord has in store.
Bumping this up...would love to hear how this morning went. You have a great attitude! It's clear how invested you are in these kids and dedicated to doing whatever it takes. Kudos to you and DW!
Hello again...:cowboy:
The walk this morning went pretty well. We got up at 5am. We had breakfast, got ready and headed out the door by 5:50. The walk is 5 miles. It was dark and chilly, about 38 degrees. We got about half when he wanted me to carry his backpack. Of coarse, the answer had to be "no" and that he had made a choice (albeit, a bad one). He wrestled with his back pack the rest of the way. We did take a potty break and a sit down break at a local grocery store thats 4 miles away. He wanted to sit longer, but we drove on so we wouldnt be late....Thats when he started to complain about his ankle hurting. I watch him and his behavior as we walked. When he saw something that really caught his fancy, he would run and jump and get excited. Then, 10 minutes would pass and the complaining would begin again. Today is piano lesson day. My wife picks up the boys and takes them to their lesson. When they got home, he mentioned his ankle....but not the 2 hours before. Still, she looked him over just to be sure.
We will walk again tomorrow. It is supposed to be about 28 degrees by morning. Only this time, his brother wants to come. He too has been in trouble on the bus, but not as much as his older brother. I am thinking that if I take the younger one along, it may squelch any further mis-behavior... and prevent me from having to do this with him later:bullwhip:
Alright..... its going on 1am and I need to be up by 5.
Gotta go!!:happydance:
dad101
:thanks: :thanks:
. As of a week ago Monday, were waiting on the Judge to see if he/she will terminate the mothers rights to the kids. Truly a sad situation, but the mother was given sooooooooo many oppertunities in the past year and half and yet she still does not have a grip on reality.
Whoa...TPR was last week? That explains a lot. Here's a kid who is seriously grieving. Things will probably calm down as he comes to grip with this, but it's a serious time, and some acting out is to be expected.
Well, we have one young lady that is as tough as nails. She spent time yesterday picking rocks (gravel) up out of our round pen and putting them in a 5 gallon bucket for having issues at school. This is the second time she has had to do this because we are running out of things that need done. :) If you need to trim your hedges then make him pick up the clippings or weed the flower bed. To me this gives the kids time to reflect on what they have done and is such a boring thing they don't want to do it again. I can't wait for the kids to be big enough to have to move hay bales. :)