Advertisements
Advertisements
jessisrael
ugh. our adoption was just finalized. i just started reading this thread and it suddenly hit me: our kid could totally go out there at 21 and we really would not have been anything but unpaid sitters for those first 18 years.
we were not told about that. truly, the information that we were given largely pertained to helping children reach adulthood in one piece. after reading this thread, i'm praying the mom stays in jail or od's. that's sick, right?
my husband and i cannot have children and i have often wondered how potential grandchildren will be considered. will we be the grandparents? will the birth mom have all the "rights"?
adoption can be so beautiful. but it is also very ugly.
It doesn't sound like you place much trust in your child's capability to love. Surely your years of history that you will have together will count for something.
You are just starting out so it is probably just the fear of the unknown at the moment. I am sure that after 18 years, you won't feel like you are babysitting.
As an adoptee though, I'll be honest, if my APs had said anything like "have we just been babysitting you all these years", I would feel like I'd been slapped in the face - I would think "Really, after all these years, you can diminish our relationship to that? Doesn't years of history mean anything to you?". I would feel that perhaps they didn't love me as much as I thought they did, I would feel betrayed because I would feel like they had placed conditions on their love for me. I think this can often be when relationships between adoptees and their aparents "go south".
Fortunately, my APs were supportive. That is the good news - in every single case I know where the adoptive parents are outwardly supportive of their child, however they might feel inside, their child will appreciate that and many adoptees have said they love their aparents even more because they realised their parents love was unconditional. It is OK to be a little bit jealous at first, that's natural, but if your child reassures you that they love you and that you are their mum (note I don't use "real"), then you need to believe them. It is not a competition. In most cases, adoptees love their APs dearly but just want to know more about their origins and the family that actually brought them into the world. In some cases, they may grow to love that family but that doesn't mean they will love you any less. It just means they have expanded their family.
Also we do that understand that reunion is a difficult thing for you but it is also difficult for us as well. In fact,many people call it a rollercoaster. We are trying to forge a relationship with people who are part of us yet are strangers and there isn't really any script on how to deal with it.
Btw I am very respectful of mum's feelings. I tend only to bring up my bfamily when my amum asks about them and have always tried to make sure that she realises that I am not replacing her. Admittedly, in my case, it is easier because my reunion is with extended family as my bmom has died. Btw my amom just expressed sadness for me when she heard that my bmom died young as she realises that there are things I will never know the answer to. Also, my bmom was apparently a lovely person and it sounds like I am missing out on knowing that lovely person (although I do realise that there is the possibility she may not have wished for contact, who knows). Also, I do feel great sadness that she died young (I'm already 10 years older than she will ever be) because who would wish a young death on anyone?
Advertisements
jessisrael
ugh. our adoption was just finalized. i just started reading this thread and it suddenly hit me: our kid could totally go out there at 21 and we really would not have been anything but unpaid sitters for those first 18 years.
adoption can be so beautiful. but it is also very ugly.
DO NOT ALLOW YOUR CHILD TO GROW UP. They may fall in love some day and get married and you will have felt like nothing but an unpaid sitter. Worse, they may actually have in-laws that they respect and love. And then heaven forbid, they go on to have babies of their own that they will love. This is unacceptable that your child may grow up to love several people. We can not let this happen.
As birthmothers we relinquished minor children. Not adults.
As a birthmother I have yet to see the beauty of adoption. I just can't wrap my brain around where the beauty is in the loss of my children.
jessisrael
it suddenly hit me: our kid could totally go out there at 21 and we really would not have been anything but unpaid sitters for those first 18 years.
I'd try not to worry about that so much, plus it's something any kid could do to their parents. I know several young adults that have dumped their parents to live with, or be with, their boy/girlfriends' family recently.
I know plenty of people who got married and chose to live far away from home near the in-laws. Chose one over the other. Spend all their time, and holidays with that side of the family, not to mention more time spent with one set of grandparents... Not that the relationship is over, but long distance is not the same.
Should I mention it's possible for any of our adult children to end up in prison, or choose suicide, I've seen the anger and betrayal felt in those scenarios.:(
I'm sure I could come up with more to worry about, but I think I've pointed out what I need to:eyebrows:
It may be better to just accept that the definition of a parent is an unpaid babysitter! Then maybe it wouldn't be as much of a let down if you are let down from your expectations.
What's that old corny phrase?... Set her free, if she comes back, it was meant to be.
identicaltwins
DO NOT ALLOW YOUR CHILD TO GROW UP.
LOL Maybe they'll make a pill for that soon. :evilgrin:
jessisrael
that's sick, right?
somewhat understandable considering who it's coming from, but yeah, way sick!:sick: (hey you asked LOL)
Many, most, heck I'd even go with the majority of adoptees figure out that their parents wish their originals would disappear in some way.
jessisrael
my husband and i cannot have children and i have often wondered how potential grandchildren will be considered. will we be the grandparents? will the birth mom have all the "rights"?
adoption can be so beautiful. but it is also very ugly.
The only rights any grandparent really gets are what is permitted by the grandchildren's parents, or what's permitted by the judge if the parents loose their rights.
Advertisements
jessisrael
my husband and i cannot have children and i have often wondered how potential grandchildren will be considered. will we be the grandparents? will the birth mom have all the "rights"?
adoption can be so beautiful. but it is also very ugly.
They may end up with 8 grandparents instead of 4 - the more the merrier. And if every grandparent divorces and remarry, they might end up with 16 grandparents - the possibilities are endless.
Actually, I've never known any of my grandparents, either adoptive or biological.
[QUOTE=BethVA62]
I know plenty of people who got married and chose to live far away from home near the in-laws. Chose one over the other. Spend all their time, and holidays with that side of the family, not to mention more time spent with one set of grandparents... Not that the relationship is over, but long distance is not the same.
My sister spends a lot more time with her siblings-in-law than she does with me and other siblings. It's no big deal. They fill a need in her that we don't - i.e. they all have children and my brothers and I don't.
We all accept that when people get married, their husbands/wives are going to fill needs that their family can't. Our friends fill needs that our families can't. That's life.
In days past, some women never did escape home and get a job because their parents decided their wishes/needs were more important than their daughters wishes/needs so the daughter would end up having no life looking after their parents because their parents made them feel so guilty for wanting a life and job that they never left home. I think we all feel sad for those women.
Most parents realise that their children will have different needs and wants once they reach adulthood and it is their child's right to be able to meet those needs if they so wish. Not everyone has the same needs and wishes eg many people want to get married and have children, others don't - neither party should be made to feel guilty.
Thus when it comes to one's adoptive daughters/sons, one needs to allow them to meet their own needs/wishes. Some may have no wish/need to know more about their origins, some do - neither should be made to feel guilty.
The thing is one just has to accept that one's adopted child does not come to one via an Adoptee Tree but via real human beings who will continue to draw breath somewhere in the world. Short of killing them once they've signed TPR, one just has to accept that they exist and that either party might one day want to know each other.
Disclaimer: Not all are interested, just saying there is the possibility that they might be. Each to their own.
Disclaimer 2: My interest in my bfamily had nothing to do with my love for my aparents - curiosity is not a reflection on one's parenting. I can actually understand that many poor APs do get that wrong impression because there can be a tendency for some to connect the two eg "my children have no need to search BECAUSE we loved them enough" - that is actually a bit offensive to other adoptive parents, not just adoptees, and can make an AP whose children do search feel that they have done something wrong when in fact, their child loves them just fine but just is a person with a curious nature or just likes knowing the truth behind things.
Jessisreal's post reminded me of a "Dear Abby" column I read years ago. (Not actually sure if it was Dear Abby, it may have been another advice column).
The writer and her husband were considering having children (biological). She was scared because she knew several people who had adult children who wanted nothing to do with them. She was scared this would happen to her and her husband if they had children.
I liked the answer she got. She was told that there was no way to know how things would turn out. Yes, it was possible that if she had children they would move away as adults and not want contact. But that's not the point of having children. Since there's no way to force a child to take care of you or even want contact later in life, the point of having children is to enjoy the process of parenting! People can easily miss the fun and joy in parenting by worrying about the future.
I also agree with previous posters that shared history and love aren't going to go out the window. I expect Sweet pea to want to know her origins. If she forms a relationship with her first mom one day and loves her, it doesn't mean she loves me any less. If she doesn't feel unconditional love from me and feels like I'd be disappointed in her -- that's what might push her away.
:thanks: Thank you for the reality check. I was seriously freaking out yesterday. I've been in a local support group with others who were in the process of adopting. Almost all of us have finalized. It was fun and new and exciting.
But last week, I met up with a woman whose adoptive daughter appeared to board the crazy train in her teen years and they haven't spoken since. I was thinking, "surely, that won't be us." But then I read this yesterday and thought, "good grief! any number of things could happen! ACK!"
I know there's no way to know how anything or anyone will turn out. Logically, I get that. But... my pessimism is rearing its ugly head, wondering what in the world is going to happen as ours gets older.
Will we scar her? I see it as less of an us vs. them thing and more of a ... "what if we end up scarring her for life and the moment she can get away she just runs to her bio mom who will rescue her from the evil travails of her adoptive family?"
"Don't let her grow up." LOL! I know you're kidding and our family jokes about it all the time. Sorry. I just hijacked this thread. Thank you for letting me vent for a moment and calling me back to reality.
Anything is possible. I can enjoy the moments as they come or be a basket case the entire journey.
Advertisements
I went through a really bad time with rejection issues, that were all in my own head, they had nothing to do with mom and dad (I'm adopted).
I made some really crappy choices that I take full responsibility for, but I thought they wouldn't love me anymore because I was so ashamed of my mistakes. Again, they had nothing to do with this, it was all in my own head, and my own stuff.
I didn't talk to them for about 8 months when I was 25. Now I talk to my mom four or five times a week and we couldn't be closer.
Point being is that I love my parents fiercely, always have and always will. Sometimes, like mom says, things go on in our heads that we can't control.
So, even if something does happen and things get wacky for awhile, because trust me, I was on the crazy train for a bit, doesn't mean that they won't get better and the experience won't make the relationship stronger.
Congratulations on finalizing btw.
Edited to add: Shortly after that time, I did find my first mom, and guess what? She wants nothing to do with me. Mom and Dad do though! My first mom is so damaged by life that I understand why she doesn't, I don't hold it against her, and honestly, I think Mom and Dad were more angry at her than I was.
1 Liked
 likes this.
Hi, Beatrice,
While I don't share your entire perspective, I sure do agree that adoptees and adoptive parents are very very often expressing opposite sides of the same coin.
Regarding the second to the last paragraph in your response where you requoted another post (I'll just put yours in bold for clarity):
"As an adoptee though, I'll be honest, if my APs had said anything like "have we just been babysitting you all these years", I would feel like I'd been slapped in the face - I would think "Really, after all these years, you can diminish our relationship to that? Doesn't years of history mean anything to you?". I would feel that perhaps they didn't love me as much as I thought they did, I would feel betrayed because I would feel like they had placed conditions on their love for me. I think this can often be when relationships between adoptees and their aparents "go south". "
I might be wrong but I didn't get the impression that the above adoptee was necessarily "dismissing their entire history and love for their APs", more that they too were expressing their feelings -
Yes, I completely agree on both accounts -- oddly I guess we are using what we agree on to make different points that we don't agree with. So, yes, the adoptee in my mind is expressing how they feel and so is the AP. Both valid expressions that deserve to be heard, then explored and healed.
I got the impression that they were in fact trying to get the OP to see that their child might have similar feelings to the OP (two sides of the same coin). Do you think the OP was dismissing the entire history and love for their child? No? So why assume that the above adoptee's similar description of his/her possible feelings re betrayal is necessarily dismissing their own entire history and love for their APs? Not because the ACs comment wasn't the from the same coin -- but because it was a thread regarding the AP. The AP needed to find the lost goodness beneath her sense of betrayal and have it explored first. There are few places for that to happen and she was hoping for that here. At the place she was at, If her feelings are disvalidated -- one comment (later) described her feelings as completely not valid -- then when the other side of the same coin pipes up telling the AP there could be dire consequences for her expressing her feelings to her son, the validity of APs feelings are shut down before they're even explored.
Is it not possible that adoptees and APs may have feelings that are similar but opposite sides of the coin? Definitely, that's exactly how I see it. The APs feelings beneath how they were expressed were pushed aside for the flip-side of the coin be used in a way to stifle rather than to feel safe and continue to express. In a different context, I can see how the other side of the coin can be useful -- VERY useful! But it felt cruel in this case.before the APs feelings were explored and validated even deeper.
1 Liked
 likes this.
I appreciate the passion in this thread. I realize that many of you probably spent a great deal of time forming your responses to each other. However, it was becoming too much of a back and forth battle, so sadly most of them had to be deleted.
Please keep in mind when you quote each other and respond back and forth, that it is done in a respectful way, rather than an opportunity to question and tear down the opposing response.
Thank you again for all being part of the forums! I hope that we can all continue to be here, without letting our opinions stand in the way of supporting one another as members of the adoption community.
Respectfully,
Spud
Last update on July 21, 9:53 am by Adoption Admin.
I'm going to try to articulate my thoughts but, unfortunately, they are all over the place, so please forgive the randomness of this post. I hope this one doesn't get deleted also. I think this discussion is very important and am disappointed it was all deleted.
After reading through this entire thread, including the posts that were deleted, it seems to me that some adoptees are in so much pain that it is difficult for them to see the good things they do have. Some APs, knowing that someone else actually birthed their child, live with the fear of the search and reunion their child might undertake later in life.
Kingstonrule: As an adoptee though, I'll be honest, if my APs had said anything like "have we just been babysitting you all these years", I would feel like I'd been slapped in the face
The AP was expressing her insecurity about the adoptee's feelings toward her. The adoptee took it in the exact opposite way, as an indication of the AP's feelings towards HER. However, I agree it is two sides of the same coin. There are insecurities on both sides and both need to be acknowledged by the other.
I am infertile. I love kids and have always wanted them. The only way I will ever experience raising a child is by adoption. "Having a right to a child" has nothing to do with it. Having and raising a child is an innate biological urge. I had no idea how difficult dealing with infertility would be. It has been stated that adoptees are told they must be grateful that they are adopted. Infertiles are told they should adopt! It's so selfish to pay all that money for treatments when there are all those kids out there who need homes. I am someone who always wanted to adopt as well as have biological children, but what about those for whom adoption is not the right thing? They are left with nothing except deep emotional scars and the contempt of society.
I say this not to gain sympathy for infertility, but to point out that society has it's views for pretty much every group out there. Adoptees, adoptive parents, infertiles, homosexuals, muslims, the handicapped. You name the group, society has something to say about it. Society says a lot of things...most of it is crap.
My cousin and her husband adopted a little boy several years ago. They were told he was healthy and had no behavior issues. Turns out he had RAD and FAS. He threatened to kill my cousin. Many times, she woke up in the night to find him standing over her with a knife. He is now in his 20s and the whole family is still afraid of him. Not only was this child rightfully taken from his birth parents, he should never have been adopted out to anyone without the special skills needed to handle his problems. My cousin's family was decimated both finacially and emotionally by this damaged child. I wonder what the adoptee opinion is as to what would have been the right thing for this child? No one else really seems to know.
On the other side of my family, I have a cousin who is adopted. He's awesome! We both love animals, we both love rock and roll, and we both have the same sense of humor. I never think about his adoption. No distinction was ever made between him and the rest of our family. It's a non-issue. If he has different feelings, he's never spoken about it. It kills me that he may be hurting.
1 Liked
 likes this.
Advertisements
Brenda, I'm only going to say a couple things:
1) There is a difference between true support and enabling support.
2) I will quote a previous post by one of this forums wisest adoptive mothers :) She is a very fairminded individual and she is calling it as she sees it. You can check out her previous posts to judge for yourself (she is usually very knowledgeable re international adoption):
Your son almost certainly feels your anger and coldness. This is a young man who has been serving his country. He has probably seen death, and maybe had experiences where he came close to death. For goodness sakes, you have a son of whom you should be proud. Reach out to him. Hold him close.
People who have been in a situation like combat are often changed by their experience. They may think a lot about their life and possible death. An adopted child may want to learn about his birthparents, so that they can meet him and he can meet them, just in case he is killed, so that they don't have to wonder, for the rest of their lives, what their birthson was like, what happened to him, and so on.
People who have been in a situation like combat also may feel a need to reach out to their own families and mend fences. Life is fragile, and they may not want to go off to war, having angry words out there; what if it's the last time they see their loved ones. So please, for his sake, let him know, in the nicest way you can, that you don't mind that he searched for his birthparents, or even that he saw them, but that some of the things he has done have bothered you and you'd like to talk about it. Try to clear the air, and make sure that he knows that you love him. You don't ever want to see him go off to war with your sullen glances and curt words in his head, and face death. You will feel guilt for your entire life that you let him go off without knowing that you love him.
If you are so angry at him that you can't do that, I do hope that you will seek out professional help. His desire to search is so normal under the circumstances, and he almost certainly didn't mean to hurt you. He wants to know these people who share his genes, but that doesn't mean he loves you any less. In fact, he will probably come to love you even more for letting him get to know his birth family, and for being welcoming to his birth family, as long as they are safe and pleasant people. I am almost certain that your son's birthparents aren't trying to hurt you. In fact, they may be so overwhelmed with joy that you were open to your son's search, that they probably feel nothing but love for you. And they may be a little overwhelmed, knowing that this young man who has suddenly come back into their lives, could well be killed in combat, and want to make every minute with him count.
You have a fine son -- a son you should be very proud of. He is a good son to you, and he is being a good birth son to his birthparents. Respect him and love him, and let him go off to do his patriotic duty knowing that, whatever happens, he now has the love of two families enveloping him.
Sharon
After reading through this entire thread, including the posts that were deleted, it seems to me that some adoptees are in so much pain that it is difficult for them to see the good things they do have. Some APs, knowing that someone else actually birthed their child, live with the fear of the search and reunion their child might undertake later in life.
I can't speak for anyone else but I'm a perfectly happy person. From what I've seen of the other adoptees, they seem like lovely people, eg Dickons is very wise, BethVA62 never fails to make me laugh and Angry Adoptee tells it as she sees it. If you take time to read their posts, you will see that shine through in their posts.
Anyway, back to myself because I can only really speak for myself. As I said, I'm a happy individual. I have good relationship with both my families. Now, I think I said this on one of the deleted posts but I am at the stage where I consider each of my relationships on their own merits. My relationship with my mom is a relationship that stands on its own merits and the relationship with my birthfamily stands on its own merits. This is something I've learned in the last two years and thus my advice to those who do live with the fear of search and reunion is to concentrate on their own relationship with their child. If one has a solid relationship that is built on rock, it is not likely to be shaken by any other relationship. My own relationship with my mom has gotten stronger BECAUSE of reunion. Why? Because it has stood the test of time and the relationship stands on its own merits.
Am I a hurt adoptee? Not as such. One thing I have done is to separate my adoptive family from adoption in general. I have a good relationship with my adoptive family. However, after years of being online and after reading a lot of the stuff out there in cyberspace, I am perhaps not so enamored with the adoption industry and the way things are done. I also feel angry on behalf of those adoptees that can't get their original birth certificates. I feel angry on behalf those adoptees who have written articles in newspapers and told they were ungrateful little minxes (there were a few earlier this year). I think though that is righteous anger. If it was just about me, then I might not be saying much, I could easily go off line and do nothing, but things like OBCs and proper adoption practices are important. Many of the better changes in adoption have come about BECAUSE of adoptees and bmoms who have spoken up (although there is still a way to go and in some ways things haven't improved).
One thing you will also find is that the reality of reunion has helped many online adoptees to see things in a different light - many of us have been told "be grateful - you could have been aborted, burnt with cigarettes, resented, thrown in dumpsters" but we have found a different reality. Note that many of adoptees are from domestic infant adoption situations from the 1960s - our mothers were just ordinary girls like you and me. I also was never particularly into fantasy either - I never had any particular view of my birthmother but after reunion, I discovered she was just a nice ordinary person like the rest of us. She didn't fit all the stereotypes.
The thing about constantly being forced to compare is that it leads to forced indebtedness - eg "You should be grateful because of the alternative". I now feel realised from that . I AM grateful for my things in my life but my gratitude is the gratitude of ANY human being, adopted or non-adopted. I NO longer feel that I need to be more grateful BECAUSE of my having been adopted.
If you have not done so already, Susan, it might be doing some reading about the history of adoption. Here is a good place to start:
Last update on July 22, 4:06 am by beatricesmith.
1 Liked
 likes this.