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Hi there!!
So I'm just starting out on the adoptive breastfeeding journey and I'm so excited to be joining this forum!! :cheer:
I've posted in the adoption forums for years now, but things are a bit different now. :) My husband and I are in the process of adopting from Taiwan and are currently on the waiting list. Obviously, we are hoping to get "THE CALL" any day now so in the mean time I'm trying to learn all I can about adoptive breastfeeding because I intend to breastfeed. I know that it may be a challenge and I'll have to work for it, but I think the benefits outweigh it all. Plus even if I can't get milk in, I'm excited about the bonding experience it gives.
So here are my questions...
I have done a lot of research and I know I don't want to be on meds if at all possible. I don't judge anyone that does, I just don't feel it's right for me. So I've read that you can take fenugreek, blessed thistle and goat's rue to help with milk production (in addition to pumping)....Is there anyone that has had experience with these and can share with me how they worked for them? Should I start pumping and taking them at the same time or should I start pumping first? Like I said, we are on the waiting list and can get a call any day and then it's probably 4-8 months before we can bring the baby home. I know I'll have to keep up the pumping till the baby comes home, but at least I can store up in the mean time.
As far as pumping is concerned, this was my plan after doing research....
I figured I start out pumping 3 times a day for 3-5 minutes and then keep moving it up. Eventually getting up to the every 3 hours for like 10 minutes. Does that sound right? In that process should I continue the pumping during the night or only during waking hours?
At first I was planning to use my sister's double breast pump because then I wouldn't have to pay for an expensive pump without knowing how things will go. But from everything I've ready, it seems that a hospital pump will benefit me a lot more. Any thoughts on this?
I might be all over the place, but bare with me. I'm excited and nervous and new! lol. If anyone has any sort of a timeline of what they did when inducing lactation without meds that they are willing to share, that'd be awesome! I found the Newman-Goldfarb Inducing lactation protocol but like I mentioned, I don't want to use birth control or meds so that's why I'm looking for a natural, no meds protocol.
I'm so excited about this community and this journey I'm on. I can't wait to hear from you ladies! :thankyou:
God Bless!
Stephanie
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Bump. :eyebrows:
So I started taking fenugreek, blessed thistle and goat's rue yesterday. I also started making a yummy smoothie the past two mornings with oats, flaxseed, coconut milk and froze fruit....AND I pumped for the first time today! :clap:
I picked up my medela symphony pump today from the hospital. I pumped for 15 minutes and just let it run the cycle it was set for. I didn't get anything except a little clear liquid from the right breast, but not enough to drip. I didn't expect anything the first time though, but I'm curious...is that normal?
I was able to talk to an LC (friend of a friend) and she said to just go ahead and pump every 3-4 hours. So that's my plan. I'm wondering though how long it will take to "get" something? How many pumping sessions should I expect before I at least get drops?
Hope to hear from someone soon! I'm eager to talk to other ABF mamas!
Hi Stephanie! Welcome to the board! It's been pretty slow, lately, and I lose track of how long its been since I checked it. It isn't my board, but I have a great deal of experience with this issue, and am always glad to try to help other moms out. I nursed six adopted children, the youngest of whom is now 17, and I have three grandchildren (where did the time go?).
I'll be brief, for now, and write more tomorrow. The fact that you are seeing a little bit of fluid from your breast, the first time you pumped, is encouraging! Everyone's response is a little different. Most moms who don't use domperidone don't see much milk from pumping, but I have been told that the breast pump you have rented it the best one so far. Since there is a definite emotional factor in raising prolactin levels enough to start milk production, I think just spending a significant amount of time thinking about it can help. Even though it was been over 15 years since my youngest child weaned, when I have been thinking about it a lot, I still sometimes feel a fullness like when I was nursing and can express a tiny bit.
So, I'm just going to post that, since it is very late, and work on some more tomorrow. I'm really excited for you!
Darillyn
Hi Stephanie! Welcome to the board! It's been pretty slow, lately, and I lose track of how long its been since I checked it. It isn't my board, but I have a great deal of experience with this issue, and am always glad to try to help other moms out. I nursed six adopted children, the youngest of whom is now 17, and I have three grandchildren (where did the time go?).
I'll be brief, for now, and write more tomorrow. The fact that you are seeing a little bit of fluid from your breast, the first time you pumped, is encouraging! Everyone's response is a little different. Most moms who don't use domperidone don't see much milk from pumping, but I have been told that the breast pump you have rented it the best one so far. Since there is a definite emotional factor in raising prolactin levels enough to start milk production, I think just spending a significant amount of time thinking about it can help. Even though it was been over 15 years since my youngest child weaned, when I have been thinking about it a lot, I still sometimes feel a fullness like when I was nursing and can express a tiny bit.
So, I'm just going to post that, since it is very late, and work on some more tomorrow. I'm really excited for you!
Darillyn
I apologize again for not getting your questions answered! I've been babysitting so much that I haven't had much time to type. I've also been planning my granddaughter's birthday party, and trying to get her gifts sewn, too. Tomorrow is the party and, after that, I should have more time.
I have written a ton on this forum and also here: [url=http://www.fourfriends.com/abrw/]The Adoptive Breastfeeding Resource Website - Homepage[/url] Unfortunately, the site has been pretty much dead for several years, now, but there is tons of good information there. There are also posts from quite a few moms who started nursing older adopted babies, many of whom came from other countries.
Here is another site I thought you would want to check out: [url=http://www.golacta.com/]Go-Lacta®: Nature's Own Galactagogue[/url] I have no personal experience with their product but have heard that it is almost as good as domperidone at increasing milk production, but it is all natural.
How is your pumping going?
Darillyn
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Here's another you might want to check out: [url=http://www.lactaboost.com/landing/1/index.php?gclid=CLLbqtnEp7ICFeeDQgodblAAMg]Breastfeeding Supplement, Increases Breast Milk, Induces lactation - Lactaboost[/url] I haven't heard of it before, but just found it when I was searching for Go-Lacta.
I am planning to write the manufacturers of both of those and ask them if they have had any specific experience with adoptive moms who are nursing. I will also post on Lactnet, which is an email list for lactation professionals, and see if anyone there has any experience. I would especially like to know if there is any experience with them specifically with prospective adoptive moms who are trying to get started producing milk before they have a baby to nurse. Fenugreek appears to do more with increasing milk supply once lactation has begun than with inducing lactation. I used it with my fifth child and he was the one I produced the most for, but I didn't start until after he was started nursing with the Lact-Aid. I smelled like maple, but he loved the way it smelled. After he started walking, he would look in the laundry and find a nursing bra or nightgown or something and carry it around like a security blanket, sniffing it. I haven't tried goat's rue, but it seems like there was someone on the other website who used it and thought it was helpful.
Another thing that some moms say is really helpful is hand expression. I had always heard that, but it didn't do much for me. Years later, I saw a video of someone doing it correctly and realized that I hadn't been doing it right. There are several demonstrations on YouTube.
I'd like to hear how things are going for you.
Darillyn
Though I have little to add to this discussion, I am watching and hoping for answers as well. I am currently fostering/hoping to adopt and am awaiting the day when I will get the call for an infant. I am a HUGE proponent of breastfeeding, both for the health and bonding experience. Though I am unable to have my own children by birth, I am determined that I will adopt and breastfeed my forever child :) I am not even sure where to start, although I will say that I am very wary of ANY drugs (including Domperidone) and hope to go the most natural course possible. For now, watching, learning, and listening for the voices of experience :)
Heya... so I don't know a whole lot about inducing without the Newman-Goldfarb protocol, because that's what I was comfortable with. That said, I do know that pumping works about the same no matter what you do. The N-G protocol is meant to increase the amount of milk you produce, but it doesn't change the process of lactation at all.
So... when you start pumping, you'll see either nothing or some clear-ish drops at first. Over days, those will turn yellowish to whitish to opaque white. That's milk! After about two weeks of drops, you'll get to "spray" although quantities will still be pretty small. After another two weeks or so, you should begin to see a small flow, and then it will gradually increase.
Stephanie had mentioned using a ramp-up pumping schedule. Unless you're under time constraints, I don't see any benefit to doing it that way. The best thing you can do is empty your breasts as often as possible. Every 2 hours would be awesome, every 3 hours would be good, every 4 hours would be ok. The more often you pump, the better. Cumulative time at the pump has little to do with it. For example, you're better off pumping every 3 hours for 5 minutes at a time (40 mins per day) than you would be pumping every 4 hours for 10 minutes at a time (60 mins per day). That said, there's not a whole lot of point to pumping overnight until you're closer to bringing your baby home. I started daytime-only pumping when I felt like it was the right time, but I didn't add night pumping until we had been matched with our daughter and were expecting to bring her home within a couple weeks.
When I did, I found it very easy to sit up, pump, and fall back to sleep. I was typically sleeping 6 hours a night, so I only woke up once to pump. A hospital grade pump is beyond a luxury in that situation, because it's so much quieter than the commercially-available ones. If I'd been trying to pump at night with the PumpNStyle that I used for my second nursling, I'd have had to move to the guest room with it because it was so loud.
Fenugreek can aggravate asthma and can make your sweat smell a little like maple syrup. It didn't aggravate my (very severe exercise-induced) asthma, so just take it with caution until you know how it affects your asthma, if you have it.
Most of the available "lactation support" herb mixes don't include as much Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle as the N-G protocol calls for. They also include a bunch of other stuff, which may be helpful - like Raspberry Leaf and Goat's Rue and Mallow Root. Feel free to experiment!
I found the herbs available to me did not come in the doses the N-G protocol calls for. I ended up modifying my dosage from three pills four times a day to two pills three times a day and got it about where it was supposed to be in terms of total milligrams daily.
Best of luck!
I am so sorry it has taken me so long to write back to y'all but I have a really good reason!!! So before I repsond to each of you individually, I have to announce...we have a baby girl!!! :cheer: She is 3 weeks old and we were just matched monday night so we are thrilled beyond explaination!! So it's a good thing I started all this when I did. :D
Darillyn-
Thank you so much for your posts!! I hope your granddaughters birthday went well!! And wow!! you nursed six adopted children?! That's awesome!! I love it!! Since I wrote my last post, I've continued to get a "little" drop on each side. It's more greenish in color, but consistently there. I've been pumping for 2 weeks now and I'm pumping every 2-3 hours (closer to every 2 if I can) for 15 minutes. I'm also still taking the herbs, making oat smoothies and eating dark greens. Basically anything I can do! :D
I agree with you, I think thinking about her and my milk coming in, etc. will help so I've been trying to visualize it.
I will be sure to check out the links you have given, so thank you for sharing those!! Those will be so helpful!!And it'll be interesting to hear what the manufacturers say in response to adoptive mom experiences.
That is too funny about your son loving the smell. My husband loves to joke that he is craving pancakes whenever he is around me. And I love it! It just reminds me the journey I'm on. ;)
As far as hand expression. I've been trying to do it but it hasn't yielded anything yet. Having said that I'm not sure if it matters, but I'm not very big chested so I sometimes feel like there isn't much to work with. :o BUT I am meeting with my LC to have her show me how to do it the best way for me and I think that'll help.
cookiemommakara- I'm so great you joined us! I don't know much at all, but if my experience helps you at all, I am more than willing to share it with you! :) If you have any questions I can answer, let me know!
Thalasshaya- Are you on the adoptivefamiliescircle too? Cause your name looks familiar! If so, you and I are talking on there as well! :D Thank you for sharing and for giving me some tips...I'll have to check out the Raspberry Leaf and Mallow Root. I hadn't heard of those. I'm really hoping that now that I've been pumping for 2 weeks, I'll begin to see a little more of a spray. Especially now that I have my baby girl's pic to stare at. :love:
Thank you so much ladies for all the tips and advice! I promise I'll be better at checking and replying here. I've just been so overwhelmed with telling family and close friends that it slipped my mind. Looking forward to talking with y'all more!! :grouphug:
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Congratulations Giorgianna! I know how it is to have a baby suddenly fall into your lap! Of course, then people will say you did it the "easy way", and not consider the years of struggle that preceded it.
Have you tried nursing your baby yet, or are you thinking you need to get milk in before you do that? A baby at the breast is actually much more effective than a pump. I recommend getting a deluxe Lact-Aid kit and nursing her on demand with it. That way, your breasts are stimulated to produce milk, and your baby is getting the best nurturing there is. If the baby is willing to spend a lot of time at the breast, you don't even need to pump. The Lact-Aid is a little tricky, at first, but it gets quite easy with practice. Here is a link to a good video on using it [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mDeRb_iGD4]Tips on using the Lact-Aid Nursing System - YouTube[/url] I've added some suggestions under the name aMarinedaughter (my dad was in the Marine Corps for 35 years). Some of it may sound a bit weird, because of the space limit.
There are also things that use the term Lact-Aid for something else, as if it was a generic term, but it is actually a specific device. It was developed in the 1960s, by Jimmie Lynne Avery and he husband, so that she could nurse their adopted children. All of the other devices are copies of that, but none are as good. Jimmie was a friend of mine. Unfortunately, she passed away in 2009.
Now that I have written all of this, it dawned on me that you originally said that you were adopting from Taiwan. When you said that you had a baby, I assumed that you actually had the baby with you. Now I wonder if the baby is in Taiwan and you will have to wait a while before you can pick her up. Please enlighten me!
Its funny, but the first fluid that comes from the breast, known as pre-milk, can be clear or tinted yellowish, brownish, greenish, blueish, or blackish. Some moms can actually pump enough of it to pour out of the collection bottle and save, but many only get drops. In my case, it was just a few clear droplets and then became opaque white very quickly. There is a very wide variety of responses to pumping. Everyone is different, and its important to remember that the amount you can pump may not even resemble the amount you could produce with a baby at the breast.
Aloha,
Darillyn
Yup, I'm over at AFC, too! :) Congrats on your baby.
Also, greenish is common, especially before you get much fat content in what you're expressing. It's even more common if you eat a lot of greens or if you eat/drink anything that has green or blue food colors in it.
Darillyn - love that video of Lact-Aid tips! We learned most of those lessons the hard way. :)
Thalasshaya- Thanks!! We are super excited!! And that's cool that you are on both boards! Small world! lol. Sorry I posted both places. I wasn't sure which one would be more active so I figured it couldn't hurt. ;)
I figured the greenish color was ok, but none of my friend's or family really pumped so they said they didn't pay attention. So they were no help and I wanted to make sure. So do y'all think it's normal to have times where I pump and I don't get anything. Today marks 2 weeks of pumping and I had been getting pretty consitent little drops each time but then it seems the past few days I'll have times of pumping that I get nothing. It wasn't like that in the first week. The first week I think I got a drop every time. Should I be concerned?
Darillyn- Thanks!! I should have clarified though...sorry! Yes, she is still in Taiwan. We don't "have" her yet, we just HAVE a little girl. :D We still have a few months before she'll be home. ;) So obviously I haven't been able to nurse her or anything yet.
I've heard good things about the Lact-Aid but it just seems so complicated and messy. Honestly, I'm more intimated with that than I am the pumping. lol.
I sure wish I 'd get something more in that I could begin to collect though. Even just to reassure me that this is going to work. I have heard though, like you said, that a baby can bring milk in a lot better than a pump so I'm trying to be patient.
Don't be afraid of the Lact-Aid! I really think it's no more complicated than a drip coffee pot (maybe one with sneak-a-cup). You have to fill it just so, and put the lid on just so, and clean it just so - but you think of all of that as just the price of having coffee at home. If you can get yours ahead of time and practice filling it with water once or twice, that might help you feel more at ease.
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Hi there! So I've been pumping and taking herbs for almost three weeks now and I'm wondering...is it normal that I don't have any actual milk in yet? I have clear liquid, but it's just drops. And today I've gotten nothing all day. Just wondering. Thanks y'all!