Being used to push an agenda

While this is a valid question and certainly deserves attention I can see why the thread was moved. I have my own opinions about the concept and I believe everyone is entitled to their opinions. I simply don't believe anyone should be pushing their agenda on anyone else. Hence I have no problem telling people who want to stomp around with signs impeding a woman's right to choose to hit the road. I certainly, if provoked could be the poster child for what could happen when people swallow the oblique sales pitch that every little thing will be hunky dory. I've often thought that the movie would have to be directed and written by the brothers Grimm or if an animated feature film by Tim Burton who did the "Nightmare before Christmas". While on a good day I feel thankful to have the opportunity to be here; I certainly don't want to have some person with an agenda impose their position by using me as an example. Personally I would rather have waited in a hovering pattern in whatever limbo there is before we "come down the rabbit hole" until my parents got married to each other.

Actually, I know many people younger than me who feel the loss of their peers and do think their parents could have aborted them (even if their parents were married). Then there are the ones who found out that their parent had a child that was aborted and the loss the other children feel is great and the frustration and questioning begins (why did they not abort me? I could have been aborted. Why did they not spare the life of my sibling? etc.). I just wanted to point out that there are plenty in the younger generations who are not adopted and do ask themselves these questions, even if the older generations don't make these statements to them. When you know that millions are missing and were never given a chance to live you can't help but stop and wonder. I know before meeting my husband that I wondered if my future husband had been aborted. And I know I'm not alone in this thought process.

gmarie - nice to see you again. You misread what I said. Kind regards,Dickons

Dickons, thanks. I understand what you said, I just wanted to point out to others that there are many non-adoptees who struggle with the ins and outs of abortions and the possibility of them having been aborted even when their parents were married. II do know that when things aren't done the "traditional" way that it creates a lot of thinking in the offspring. I have a cousin who's mom intended to abort him but the doctor was friends with the grandmother and she was prevented from having an abortion. This "mom" was not a good mother and has grown to be not such a great grandmother either (she can't seem to see beyond herself and her wants, she's a piece of work to talk to for sure). Needless to say, my cousin (he's an in-law cousin) has many issues and it would have been better had his parents placed him for adoption. The crazy webs that are weaved when we as adults do not always look at the long term before making decisions. THen again, I'm grateful for that because otherwise I would not be here ;)And I know I have gone on a bit of tangent, just seem to be in that weird mood today

I agree with gmarie21 -- many non-adopted people have been affected by abortion, even those of us who were born when it was illegal. My mom got pregnant at 16, at the same time her best friend did. My mom's friend had an illegal abortion, which was very easy to obtain in Los Angeles in 1954. When my mom discoverd that she, too, was pregnant, her aunt offered to pay for an abortion...but my parents declined the offer. Fast forward a few years, and anytime my mother got mad at me, she would tell me that she should have aborted me. No 4-year-old little kid should have to know what an abortion means... In 1969, my mother underwent a legal abortion, shortly after then-Governor Ronald Reagan enacted the Therapeutic Abortion Act here in California. I had just turned 15, and I was informed at that time that my mom kept saying, "I just can't have another Raven," when she came out of the anesthesia. I was horrified when I realized that my mother killed my baby sister or baby brother because she didn't want another child like me. It really affected me badly for the next ten years or so... When I became pregnant in July of 1971 at the age of 16, my mom demanded I terminate my pregnancy. She told me...and I will never forget her words...that if I had the baby, he would ruin my life forever just like I had ruined her life. I don't know where in the world I got my strength from, but I dug my heels in and absolutely refused to have an abortion. I fought her tooth and nail, and our relationship was never the same again.

My Mom hid me for six months so she wouldn't have to have an abortion. It was regular practice, illegal there in 1961, and done by the doctor routinely. The doctor in her coal mining town said it was too late now, only one place left for you stupid girl... I would like to see a forum like this: She Chose Unprotected Sex

A place for adoptees (or Anyone!) to share their positive stories about how their birthparents choosing unprotected sex over protected sex impacted their life. Now that's an agenda we know works! Or maybe one that says - I'm so grateful her birth control failed! :happydance: Both of my kids would really like that one :) Although I don't think anyone has ever suggested they should be grateful for that? I'll have to ask :) Maybe I should remind them how lucky they are. My Momma let me know how lucky I was, and how grateful I should be, along with many many many others. "Although the FDA approved the first oral contraceptive in 1960, contraceptives were not available to married women in all states until Griswold v. Connecticut in 1965 and were not available to unmarried women in all states until Eisenstadt v. Baird in 1972." Whew, that was pretty close! I'm so very thankful my Mom couldn't get the pill, and my Dad didn't use a condom! Neither adoption nor abortion has anything to do with ME being positive about being alive. And yes, being alive certainly impacted my life in many positive ways. How 'bout you?

I hope they never hear it, or read it. It really is offensive. I can't tell you how many times I have replied: "Sure, I'm glad I wasn't aborted, aren't you glad you weren't?":confused: As many times as I have heard it, especially in the last couple of decades - you better get ready for the Grand Smack Down Mama! I suggest a punch in the nose, if you don't mind :) Especially if you're at church! I really don't think it would upset so many of us if we hadn't heard it so many times in such a dismissive and twisted agenda provoked way :(

I am blown away Raven. That you had to hear those words as a child leaves me numb. I so feel for the little girl who had to hear them! :flowergift:

Raven, I am so sorry at your mother's cruel treatment. That is how my cousin-in-law was treated his whole life by his mother too. In situations like this, I don't understand why they didn't place their child for adoption? It is crazy and quite sad but you have risen beautifully above this adversity you had to experience from the one who should have loved you.

"Feel the loss of their peers"? As in, magically sense supposedly "missing people"? I rather doubt that. One would imagine that a supposedly omniscient God would have more foresight than that. RavenSong, I am so sorry your mother said and did those things to you.

Indeed.That's one reason why this "aren't you glad she chose adoption" topic makes me fume. In the first place, not all sex is consensual, and even when it is, wanting sex isn't the same as wanting a child. But also, not all first mothers actually chose adoption... some were coerced or forced into it by others or by circumstance. These things -- whatever the total package of circumstances were -- all go together. Saying "Aren't you glad that she chose adoption?" can also carry with it, "Aren't you glad she had NO support or help whatsoever*? Aren't you glad she didn't have a choice?" Coming from the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era"]BSE[/URL], that is what I hear. *That includes WRT parenting, i.e. support to keep the child, if she doesn't want to abort. To that I absolutely have to answer NO, I am NOT glad. Just last night I read an account of a Columbian woman in Panama in 1952 who had a psychiatric breakdown because she was so distraught over her pregnancy. This is from the book Back Rooms: Voices from the Illegal Abortion Era, edited by Messer & May. Patricia Theresa Maginnis describes how "They put a cage over the bed and surrounding it, like a storm fence. It was horrible, just horrible... There was nothing for that woman. No counseling, nothing. The nurses would go in there and say, 'Shut up.'"I'd hate to be the child who finds out that was his or her mother. People who use this "Aren't you glad you weren't aborted" rhetoric on adoptees IMO demonstrate to me that they don't actually care about us. They just want to use our existence to push an agenda. I do not want my existence used to shame women into "choosing" adoption, or to convince lawmakers to deny women's reproductive rights.

RavenSong

I agree with gmarie21 -- many non-adopted people have been affected by abortion, even those of us who were born when it was illegal. My mom got pregnant at 16, at the same time her best friend did. My mom's friend had an illegal abortion, which was very easy to obtain in Los Angeles in 1954. When my mom discoverd that she, too, was pregnant, her aunt offered to pay for an abortion...but my parents declined the offer. Fast forward a few years, and anytime my mother got mad at me, she would tell me that she should have aborted me. No 4-year-old little kid should have to know what an abortion means...

In 1969, my mother underwent a legal abortion, shortly after then-Governor Ronald Reagan enacted the Therapeutic Abortion Act here in California. I had just turned 15, and I was informed at that time that my mom kept saying, "I just can't have another Raven," when she came out of the anesthesia. I was horrified when I realized that my mother killed my baby sister or baby brother because she didn't want another child like me. It really affected me badly for the next ten years or so...

When I became pregnant in July of 1971 at the age of 16, my mom demanded I terminate my pregnancy. She told me...and I will never forget her words...that if I had the baby, he would ruin my life forever just like I had ruined her life. I don't know where in the world I got my strength from, but I dug my heels in and absolutely refused to have an abortion. I fought her tooth and nail, and our relationship was never the same again.

My mom would not have considered abortion for herself (She didn't deal well when she had a hysterectomy at age 33 after having 4 children.) and she was glad I was too far along to consider an abortion when I admitted I was pregnant. Her repeated statement to me was "We loved you, but we didn't want you" because I was born 11 months after their wedding (They had planned to wait at least 2 years since my Dad was still in college when they married.) She also let me know in subtle and not so subtle ways that she never completely forgave me for a) having sex before marriage and b) "giving away" her first grandchild."

My mom always looked for validation and gratitude from me towards the end of her life for her decision not to terminate her pregnancy when she was a teenager. I called her every Sunday afternoon, and at some point in the conversation she would bring it up. Sigh...and I would always, always tell her how courageous it was for her and my dad to stand up to her parents and get married (they eloped to Yuma, AZ, where girls could marry at age 16 without parental consent.) Sometimes I would literally feel sick to my stomach when I got off the phone. But what do you do with an elderly mother who's suffered a couple strokes?ETA: Interestingly enough, when my parents came home after getting married, my maternal grandmother immediately called her lawyer to get the marriage annulled. The lawyer told her if the marriage was annulled that everyone knew what that would mean: it meant that the baby would have to be put up for adoption. My grandmother changed her mind and hung up the phone. It blew my mind 16 years later when I was in the same predicament that most of the family thought adoption was such a wonderful solution.

Nobody ever said families are consistent! The only thing you can do in your Mom's case is what you did. When a person has had a stroke, her brain has been damaged. It also sounds to me like your mom never came to terms with her own teen pregnancy and as so often happens took it out on you.

I can't imagine being presented with those comments day after day. What a thing to have to deal with. I don't understand how people can feel they have the right to bluntly blame a child for their bitterness. People are dealt a set of circumstances. How they choose to deal with them is what matters. The child has no input into whether they are brought into this world or not. I think the level of patience you have to keep your cool is remarkable. It seems very contradictory that your family encouraged adoption when you mother blamed you for her situation. I am sorry you had to go through all this.