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Dear adoptees and their friends... I was very touched upon finding this forum and reading some of these very moving posts... It really shed a huge light on some issues I am facing - in my relationship. (Must try to be concise!) I would love to hear from you - especially from male adoptees and/or their female partners - your stories and your tips on how to succeed... and would particularly love to be encouraged by any success stories!!! I need HOPE :wings: Ok, so I am a female, 42 and a loving relationship is something high on my priority list. Its something I put a lot of energy into... for the last 2 yrs I have been preparing to really find a wonderfull partnership with a man, after a number of failed relationships in the past. Half a year ago I met a very sweet man in the work place. He was very shy - in fact, the shiest man I have ever had dealings with...! But also, so interesting, kind and gentle with a number of other qualities that simply drew me to him more and more, until I found myself "chasing him"... And so i did for about 4 months... gently..because he would run away and hide had I been any more forthcoming... (which happenned at times)... i could not believe what I was doing... running after this sweet guy... not something i ever had to do in the past.. Ok - must stay concise!!! Anyway, I was only running after him because it was clear to me that he is attracted to me too (signs!!) but seems to be painfully shy - and I decided to help him as I too wanted this connection. I kept creating opportunities for us to meet in a safe way, I kept demonstrating to him a) my strength and stability (so he feels supported) b) my own softness and vulnerability (so he can relate), I kept showing him I am interested and want to be there for him... Finally he opened up to me, thing slowly started to unfold into a beautiful and quite an emotionally deep love affair. But in fits and starts... He was/ is so overwhelmed with his work that he could hardly find time to see me. When he did - after much "encouragement" by me - he was usually so exhausted from work he was half asleep during our dates.... After some time I started to doubt whether this is going to work - he was practically completely unavailable to our relationship. I also started to worry about his health - he always looked on the edge of nervous exhaustion.. Then, something caused me to connect all this with the fact that he was adopted as a child ( I knew this but since he hardly mentioned this, I never realized what huge impact that would have had on him psychologically..) I started to research adoptees and their particular journey, bought and read the book "Primal wound" - what a massive eye openner - I totally recognized my boyfriend in there!! To anyone interested I would also like to recommend some really interesting talks on Attachment, by Dr. Gabor Mate, one of my fav and most enlightenning ones is : [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKES1nyitAg]Dr. Gabor Maté: Attachment and Brain Development - YouTube[/url] Ok, so now I have a much deeper understanding of what drives my lovely man to behave in ways he does, some of which are quite maddenning for me. In spite of our very sweet and tender love connection, I find it quite painfull when he runs the typical behaviour of an adopted child - pushing me away, "testing me out" - kind of - treating me in a way as his adoptive mother? a figure hed rather reject than to be rejected by? .. He compulsively keeps himself preocuppied with work and any other "jobs" to the point of exhaustion, does not aswer call or text messages (practically impossible to contact him by phone), then crying on my shoulder that he feels unable to change anything about his work load, therefore he feels its unfair on me, wanting to have a relationship with me.... yet its so deeply sad and painfull for us to consider ending our relationship.. :eyebrows: Since I read the PW book I get it, totally. Nevertheless, it doesnt mean it makes it easier on me, plus, I am confused: Am I supposed to treat him like a child? We are both 42! I cant keep on giving and giving without having much back, no matter how deeply I may understand the source of his anxieties... I am, after these 6 months of giving and supporting him, also on the edge of exhaustion... which is why I am writing here. I love him very deeply, see a lot of potential for a very special, loving relationship between us. From what I have seen from him, he feels the same way - BUT: ..he keeps blocking me out of his life, making himself unavailable in all the subtle and not so subtle ways.. Shall I give up on him? Am I supposed to treat him like a child, who needs unconditional support and nothing can be expected back? Or shall I be more bold and ask him to face his "wounding/ shadow" and maybe go for counselling etc... Shall I stick by him? He is a wonderful person in many ways, a much loved and respected school teacher, but when it comes to intimate relationships, he is like that little frightenned boy again... He didnt have a relationship for 6 yrs before he met me... the fact that he recently started to say "I love you" to me I considered a huge honour and a sign of something very special.. :thankyou: Im sorry for such a long story... I carried a lot of this inside for all these months, not many people can understand me.. By normal "dating standards" I should have left him behind months ago, as he is "an unavailable man"... but I simply love him.... Do you have any advice for me? Thank you..... one exhausted :grr: girlfriend but not wanting to give up :cheer: :drive:
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Thanks Belleinblue... :).... I am the last person who wants to "have a child" instead of a man... !!!! Totally... but the fact remains that he had certain distinct qualities that were very puzzling to me, very specific. That is, until I opened the PW book. I promise you, he is a text book example. And you know what? The more I read these two books that are apparently considered the classics, the more love I feel for him, instead of the former despair and irritation. The more I am able to empathise without taking it personally.. We are yet to discuss this openly as its been difficult lately to find a stress free time together. So instead Ive been focusing on my own life and educating myself. Id rather be overthinking than in denial, when it comes to things that matter... :)By the way, I totally agree that some of it are also personality traits - sure!! He is a quiet, gentle guy anyway..etc... but.. there is just about everything else that points to his journey as an adopted... adult... all I want, is to really understand him, so I can make most of our relationship, in harmony... is that not so good? :)
Hi Adoptivegrlftnd, read your post and from your explanations you have a lot on your plate. I may sound like a dutch uncle, but am only interested in providing some help. No matter what the problem is, he has to meet you at least half way. If there is to be any type of relationship it must be built on honesty and trust. He needs to meet you and share whats in his head. You are not a mind reader nor can you discover how to help with out some action from him. It is unfair to expect you to make the relationship work without help. Many adoptees have difficulty sharing their story if it has been especially hard. If he has strong feelings for you, it is up to him to nurture those feelings and bring you into the loop. Regardless of your feelings, it is not your job to fix him. There are all kinds of professional people who will help him move forward. I suggest that when you feel the moment is right, you share your concerns with him. He should know how you feel and what you expect. He should also be willing to share what he wants as well. If he can't meet and share some responsibility, then the relationship is questionable. Relationships are 2 way streets. Adoptions are a life long sentence. If he is involved in the grief and loss aspect of the adoption he needs help. It sounds as though he needs some professional help. No one can hide in work out of fear and loneliness, it has to be addressed. I wish you the best.
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Hello Tankeryanker and Drywall, thank you both for your replies, I really appreciated them. Just to respond briefly, you are both right.... its now down to this guy addressing the issue of his adoption and meeting me half way. We had so little time in the last few months, due to his work overload and stress.. now its coming to the long holiday time finally and I am hoping that we will create opportunities to open up these issues. Things are looking up though because he is now preparing to assert his needs at the work meeting so that he can create more free time for himself in the next year. Meaning, that gives me hope he wants to have time for us.... Just to add: I actually wrote quite a long and thought out response to the last 2 posts... but later I found my reply has dissapeared. I cant imagine how that could be possible other than being deleted by the admin?? I do not understand why and it does distress me as I put a lot of thought and my precious time into formulating that post and was expressing my own vulnerabilities in it, incl how my own "wounds of abandonment and being unwanted" are being pushed. Ironic... Would be very welcome if the admin could express themselves why they felt the need to do that - at least I wish I had been notified about it. Other than that I guess the post might have dissapeared by the effect of some kind of a technical jinx unexplainable to me, still frustrating though. Anyway, this is the reason it took me time to reply again. Best wishes and peace to everyone :coffee:
Nothing has been deleted from this thread. I do notice you did several edits to posts so perhaps you accidentally deleted one of your posts while editing? It happens. I too wish people would ask first or explain themselves instead of being so quick to make accuasations, but such is life, eh? Best of luck in finding the answers to your quest.
One of the reasons that I am facing my adoption is so that I can be a whole person when I meet my future husband. This will be the greatest gift that I can give him. I am tired of poor relationships. I do not need a boyfriend to help me with this. Maybe this video [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lp7FtJXp7k[/url] (yes I know there is controversy on the true meaning, but you get the drift) will help you to understand men better. If they are in to you the will move mountains to be with you. If I am understanding the song that you posted (thank you for turning me on to that group), it means that you think you boyfriend is crazy, he just doesn't know it. Those that are adopted....know that they are not crazy, but simply adopted. If I am understanding the meaning of the song and how you feel about it, I would be insulted and run away from you as far and as fast as I could.
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Hello crick,I do apologize if I came across as accusing, I can see it did sound a bit like that, but really, I felt more vulnerable and confused than anything else. I did edit my English a bit but doubt it that I deleted the post, nevertheless I am sorry if the tone of my message was a bit agitated. Anyway, Im glad to find that nothing I wrote was so offensive it deserved deleting :)
Quote: [Maybe this video [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lp7FtJXp7k[/url] (yes I know there is controversy on the true meaning, but you get the drift) will help you to understand men better. If they are in to you the will move mountains to be with you. he song that you posted (thank you for turning me on to that group), it means that you think you boyfriend is crazy, he just doesn't know it. Those that are adopted....know that they are not crazy, but simply adopted. If I am understanding the meaning of the song and how you feel about it, I would be insulted and run away from you as far and as fast as I could.[/QUOTE] ------------------ Hi tankeryanker.... I am slowly learning that on these forums, emotions run high (my own too!!) and misunderstandings happen easily. I am not a native English speaker either so sometimes my use of English or tone of message may trigger misunderstanding too... I will try to be more carefull.. I most definitely do not feel the way you suggest about the Steam powered giraffe song. Glad I turned you onto them though - I also only just discovered them ;) Its the sense in the song where he feels kind of a lack of self worth as to be loved, and being amazed that she did chose him after all.... (whilst he being totally adorable!!) this is something that I hear from my man a lot, typically: " I don't know why anybody would put up with me.." etc... Through that video I was expressing my affection for someone who does feel doubtfull about receiving that love.. I hope thats makes more of a sense. :) Yes... oh yes.. how I wish I was being passionately loved back the way Percy Sledge proposes. That would definitely be nice and in fact all my "dating manuals" and self-help books on relationships tell me that thats what I deserve... So why am I, 7 months on still hanging around this guy who is so evasive? Because the times we spend together in closeness, I feel thats the true love as true can be... but surrounded by a thick cloud of insecurity issues. Which brings me back to why I am on this forum - to learn to understand the deeper feelings and motivations of an adoptee. I have read quite a few relevant posts/ threads by now, especially about relationships/ attachment and intimacy issues and I know quite enough to understand that I am finding myself in classical waters and do not need to take his behaviour too personally - its not a feedback on me, its a story from a long ago. So far, the insight I have gained from this forum is giving me strength and courage to keep going and not to give up on him yet... we have yet to have this open talk re how he feels about his adoption issues and if he is aware that his fear of close relationship is related to it.. So... please kind people, wish us as much strength and determination as we need to make a success of it.. Many thanks..
Tankeryanker
Maybe this video [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lp7FtJXp7k[/url] (yes I know there is controversy on the true meaning, but you get the drift) will help you to understand men better. If they are in to you the will move mountains to be with you.
I can understand where you are coming from in that I have been in that position of trying to figure if a relationship was right for me or not. With the issues you presented, here are my thoughts for you. Do you think you can have an equal relationship with someone who is not as emotionally mature as you are? In your opinion he is emotionally like a child. When we see someone as "less" than ourselves, we cannot have an equal relationship with them, meaning real intimacy. If he sees himself as "less" than you, as it seems because of some of his comments you mentioned, you cannot meet him on an equal level. If you see yourself as "better than" "more mature than" "better able to figure out his inner workings" you cannot relate equally. If he sees you as "better than" him, also it is a problem that blocks intimacy. If you are not sharing that you are analyzing his inner workings to him, then you are not sharing who you really are to him, like speaking freely. How can you have intimacy with him, when he doesn't know who you really are. You can adjust these things, in yourself only. One, by realizing he is on his own journey, at his own pace, and he is only choosing to share what he decides at his pace. You can accept him for who he is and have a respect for who he is and stop analyzing him. If you still see yourself as superior then I don't see how you will ever have an equal standing. If you stay in a relationship in which you feel emotionally superior, you'd probably want to ask yourself why you would do that. So, what I am trying to say is, you both have to adjust. He has to feel "good enough" for you. You have to feel he is "good enough" and you can't feel like you are "better than." You can't make his self-esteem better for him, he has to do that for himself. It usually serves us better to analyze our own minds, in our own journey. You can start by asking yourself why it's okay for you to be with someone who is "unavailable." Now a lot of times, I am busy ruminating about stuff and not saying anything, but, people notice. They can sense energy. What you are doing, in regard to his psychology is very intrusive. He may feel this and be inadvertently pushing you away without even knowing why. Think about how this might feel in reverse. If he was analyzing you and reading books to figure you out, maybe you'd like that, but, what would it say about him, if he was doing that? would you feel violated? boundary-wise? If you wouldn't, do you think that is normal? Another aspect to think about is, how do you think it would feel to be adopted and everyone you meet might feel they have a right to analyze your psychology. How do you think it would feel to be asked questions about it, your whole life? I'm not trying to be mean, I really am trying to answer your questions, your post made me think a lot. I can really relate to it. I can say that my husband who was an adoptee, read PW and was very upset by it. It was his first attempt at understanding his adoption issues and it didn't help, in fact, I think it was a very negative experience for him. So, just my opinion, but, I wouldn't give him that book. I wouldn't even tell him you read it. If I were you, I would never bring up anything about his adoption to him. Let him do it, at his own pace, his own time. All you can do is be there for him, let him share himself, and if you want intimacy you have to share your true self to be known.
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I hope things are working out for you Adoptivegrlf. I feel like I have been down the road you describe and gone a little further. I have made a lot of mistakes, mainly because this is a minefield. Permanently moving goalposts, always being pushed further away whether I back off or try to be a little close and the gradual shutdown of any input I may want to have by antagonistic reaction has pushed me to breaking. Re living old problems like they are right now, coming up with attitudes that are opposite to what seems to be the case, all of it is emotional and mental torture. Like you said, it's exhausting doing all the giving and getting pushed further away. If I'm honest, I do need a little bit back. I read all the books and forums to try to educate myself but my partner won't value any of them. She dismisses therapists too. I have done everything to accept who she is and think I do. Now I am faced with the horrible thought of do I even want to be in a relationship with someone who takes everything and gives nothing, and feel bad for thinking that way. I think the problem is that I feel deep down she wants this but just can't find a way to do it. It hurts too much to be in a relationship knowing you aren't making the other person feel good. So she broke it off with me as I'm sure it seems like the easier, simpler or less painful option. I have put 5 or so years into it and took on her young child as well. All of that has been wonderful and worked out great. Do I wait a little while and try to talk or get out of there???
Disclaimer is that I'm an adoptive mother in a very open adoption.If my son's biological mother asked him to move in with her, I'd be pretty annoyed, not going to lie. NOT at the idea that she would want that, but at the idea that she'd approach my son as a young child with something that complex. But I certainly would not be mad at my SON for that, nor for his reaction as a child. The fact is, at 6 years old, you were frankly not capable of viewing it as much other than one ideal compared to the next. I wanted to live with my best friend when I was a child because they had a trampoline and were allowed to have Capri Sun every day with lunch. My reasoning skills were questionable at best. ;)So I think it's understandable that your mother was annoyed at the situation - but to take it out on you was not appropriate. Unfortunately, it happened, and while neither party necessarily acted ideally, it's important to remember that parents are people. My father was a drunk who died from his alcoholism; my mother has her own issues that led to us struggling with our relationship for years. At the end of the day, just remember that they are people. You don't owe them gratitude for raising you, and you don't owe them deference or friendship. They're family - but you did not choose them, and you don't have to want to spend time with them if you find it unpleasant. But I'd encourage you to control the things you can control and detach from the things you can't. Namely, you can not control your mother's emotions or coping mechanisms, but you can control your own reactions. Seek counseling for yourself, and if you are losing sleep over not having a warm and fuzzy relationship with your adoptive mother, start small by chatting with her about your day, family, job, pets, travels, whatever. If she starts going down paths of discussions you're not comfortable with, you have the right to say "mom, I know we should probably address our baggage about what happened when I was six, but today I was just hoping we could catch up." You're allowed to have lines, and limits. She has the 'right' to go down that path and you have the right to disengage it.Keep in mind that you're allowing HER crappy behavior to impact YOUR serenity. And that's a choice/action YOU are taking, not her.