Drug Exposure = Child Abuse

She was splitting hairs. I believe knowingly abusing alcohol while pregnant should be treated as criminal child abuse as well. I brought up the legal issue because Keelah was comparing illegal drugs to prescribed treatments. And she is incorrect. There is evidence that opiods can cause birth defects. Doing drugs to cope does not, in my opinion, lessen the criminality of putting your child through physical pain when it can be avoided. I

Does that apply to coping with physical pain as well? Legitimate question, not nitpicking. I am really not sure based on your response.

Someone wanted research that shows opiates, methadone can cause birth defects and problems??? Here you go. Can believe we that is even a debate in this modern day. Jeesh. Display Settings: Abstract Med Clin (Barc). 1999 Jan 23;112(2):41-4. [A risk analysis of congenital defects due to drug intake during pregnancy. Spanish Collaborative Study of Congenital Malformations]. Martínez-Frías ML. Source Departamento de Farmacología, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Complutense, Madrid. Abstract BACKGROUND: Illicit drug abuse is a major area of interest, for clinicians, as well as for public health and social authorities. But one of the major concerns is the illicit drug abuse during the periconceptional period and throughout pregnancy, because of its potential effect on the embryo and fetus. In this study we analyze the possible risk of illicit drug abuse during pregnancy for different selected congenital defects. MATERIALS AND METHODS: We analyzed the annual evolution of the proportion of mothers who are addicted to illicit drugs, as well as some of their characteristics. We also performed a case-control study using different models of multiple logistic regression analyses, controlling possible confounding factors. RESULTS: We observed that the proportion of mothers who are addicted to illicit drugs shows an increasing liner trend over time. On the other hand, these mothers are younger that those who are not consumers of illicit drugs, and have an overall risk for congenital defects of 1.84 (p = 0.007). We also studied the different selected types of congenital defects, controlling the potential effect of the following variables: maternal age, maternal cultural level, maternal alcohol, maternal smoking, and vitamins/minerals during pregnancy. In these analyses we obtained statistically significant increased risks for: neural tube defects, choanal atresia, esophageal atresia, gastroschisis, anal atresia, and postaxial polydactyly. CONCLUSIONS:

The women who are addicted to illicit drugs during pregnancy, have an increased risk for infants with several congenital defects. The way to prevent these effects should be based on a good information about this aspect to the general population, as well as on a careful medical control of the nutrition of these mothers and their health and social conditions during gestation, and the treatment of their addiction before and during pregnancy. Here is the link to the article abstract and below for other information on drug use and pregnancy. [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10065427][A risk analysis of congenital defects due t... [Med Clin (Barc). 1999] - PubMed - NCBI[/url] [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21081591]Maternal methadone therapy ... [Arch Dis Child Fetal Neonatal Ed. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI[/url] [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19329443]Drug misuse in pregnancy: losing sight of the... [Arch Dis Child. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI[/url]

Thank you, Maybedays, for linking those articles. The third one in particular was quite informative. For anyone wondering, the button for full text is in the top right corner, so you can read more details on the study's methodology and precise results that don't make it into the abstract :) In this case, the abstracts were pretty good representations of the study as far as I could tell.

Thanks MaybeDays. I was going to post that I have first hand knowledge. My niece's baby was born missing a toe and several other congenital defects related to her heroin abuse. THere is also growing evidence that heroin, at least, may actually also cause damage to the frontal lobe area, but the evidence is cautionary right now because the area of interest is NOT activated until puberty, and by puberty, just dealing with puberty, it is hard to rule out other factors besides heroin as causing the issues seen.

Just to add about the entire "usage of drugs during pregnancy for pain management" I have first hand knowledge of this one too. My online friend had a really bad pregnancy for #5. I am not going to go into all of the issues, but she had a lot. At one point, they wanted her to abort, which was NOT going to happen. So, she had no choice but to have to take opiates because the pain was causing a physical response in her body and she risked stroking and seizures, and of course, loss of the baby. So she and her medical doctors had to make a best costs estimate to the baby of potential issues from the drugs, vs total loss of life. The baby was born but has had many issues, including many delays. It is hard on her because she knows that these issues were likely due to the pain management meds, but it was either that, or lose the baby. Clearly, this was an extreme case. And her 5th baby, so she was a mama who was not a baby dealing with pain. My sister developed gall stones with her last baby and they couldn't do anything for her until niece was born. She took no drugs. She just dealt with the pain.

This study:[url=http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/01/science/research-on-birth-defects-shifts-to-flaws-in-sperm.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm]Research on Birth Defects Shifts to Flaws in Sperm - New York Times[/url]Showed that opiates (along with numerous other things like alcohol and radiation) affect sperm and can cause birth defects.So just to throw it out there, a father abusing drugs can cause harm too.

None of your studies disprove what I said. Your bolded statement talks about "women who are addicted to illicit drugs during pregnancy" and of course speaking in such general terms that's true. Illicit drugs include LSD, PCP, meth and a host of various poisons. None of that, however, proves that opioids cause deformities or other birth defects. According to the studies you posted it only shows that methadone can cause transient QT prolongation a few days after birth which is not a birth defect. Again, opioids have never been showed to cause birth defects, especially not deformities such as what Cris' foster son has. His problems may very well have been caused by something his mother took while pregnant but there is no reason to believe that it had anything to do with the heroin and methadone she took. Here is some info for you about methadone in pregnancy: [url]http://advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/MethadoneFAQ.pdf[/url]

Okay. Here's more, specific to opiates. I got curious. "March 2, 2011 -- Taking codeine, hydrocodone, or other opioid painkillers shortly before or early in pregnancy increases the risk of congenital heart defects and other birth defects, a study shows.The study by CDC researchers is published in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology."CDC is pretty legit.[url=http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20110302/opioid-painkillers-linked-to-birth-defects]Opioid Painkillers Linked to Birth Defects[/url]I did notice that it said the relative risk for each woman was fairly low. In other words, although there was certainly an increase, it is still low. However, it was a large sample, so it's safe to say that there really is an increased risk (almost certainly).

Methadone is still category "C" drug for pregnant women. You could not possibly make me think that methadone is okay, but tylenol is bad. Here's another article about it: [url]http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/738236[/url]

I didn't say it was okay. I said that there is no reason to believe that methadone and heroin caused the deformities Cris' foster son has because it simply doesn't cause that kind of stuff. That doesn't mean it's vitamins. There definitely is a risk of problems, most notably NAS which some believe can in itself cause future problems like other health problems in early infancy may do. There also appears to be a link between methadone and ADHD. Some studies show that there could be a link between methadone and eye problems. Another show that babies born dependent on methadone have intellectual deficits and yet another point to a potential link to childhood bipolar disease. However, none of these things have been scientifically established and in some cases follow up studies have proven the initial conclusion wrong. Some studies are based on results with rats and the results with the rats may not be the same with humans. So yes, there are risks but not the kind that Cris was alluding to. I've worked with addicts for close to a decade now and one treatment center I worked at specializes in opiate dependent pregnant women and mothers. Through the years I have seen countless babies born to mothers taking methadone and other than NAS and low birth weight I have yet to see any birth defects unless you consider ADHD a birth defect. There did seem to be quite a bit of ADHD among these kids. Of course this is only anecdotal but studies and the experiences of others seem to back me up. Some of my pregnant and parenting clients did have a couple of screws loose and had no business raising children. Most, however, were caring, loving and responsible parents once their addiction was under control. It's not fair and it really bothers me when these women are being accused of being child abusers who should go to prison once the baby is born. They don't deserve to be judged any more than anyone else taking a medication while pregnant.

HAHHAHA!!! You don't think heroin is an illicit drug?? Really?! Lol. Then I feel bad for you. Methadone is only condoned in pregnancy when the woman needs to be weaned from heroin. It could terminate a pregnancy if they stopped heroin cold turkey because of the effects of withdrawal. Also, what you listed is from a support group for women. It is NOT a research article or scholarly article done by scientists who have done studies on it. You will notice all of my articles are from a research website, they are all published in medical journals after exhaustive qualifying levels of proof. Also, just because you've worked with women whose children don't have birth defects doesn't mean they don't exist. That is a ridiculous theory. Just because YOU haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Also are you privy to the babies entire medical record? Birth defects just aren't on the outside you know! Some are born with holes in their heart, malformed organs, missing organs etc. You can't always see it on the outside. Well, here is a research article that clearly states opiate use was the large majority of the women in the study. [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22530812]Profile of infants born to drug-usin... [J Paediatr Child Health. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI[/url] RESULTS: A total of 879 (1.4%, 95% confidence interval: 1.3-1.5%) drug-using mothers were identified from 62,682 confinements. Opiates (46.8%), amphetamines (23.0%) and polydrug (16.4%) exposure were most common. There were eight stillbirths. Among these 871 infants, prematurity (23.6%) and low birthweight (27.1%) were common and 51.1% were admitted to nurseries for further care. Two infants died. Major congenital anomalies were detected in 15 infants. Pharmacological treatment for withdrawal was required for 202 (23.2%), and 143 (70.8%) infants were discharged home on medication. Infants who completed inpatient pharmacological treatment were hospitalised longer (median 26.0 vs. 12.0 days) and were more likely to be premature (37.3 vs. 14.0%). Child-at-risk notifications affected 40.6% of the infants, and 7.6% were fostered prior to discharge. A total of 333 (38.2%) infants were breastfed at discharge. Now, I will say that methadone IS safer than heroin during pregnancy, OBVIOUSLY. But they still can have NAS, heart problems, and vision problems with methadone. Add to the fact that most women don't choose to switch methadone until they are aware of their pregnancy, so even most women on methadone have exposed their baby to some heroin at some point.

Noone said heroin wasn't an illicit drug. Noone said Methadone was great for the unborn child. This seems to have gone a little off topic here. The discussion was whether or not it should be considered child abuse and prosecuted accordingly.The point some have tried to make with regards to Methadone is that it's the lesser of two evils. It's better than the prescription pain pills many were abusing, the program has them under a doctors care monitorig the baby and it's very preferable to putting the child through withdrawal in utero which can be fatal and is as damaging or more damaging than continuing on prescription pain meds. In these cases it's about going what is best for the unborn child under the circumstances.I think it's important not to lump all methadone users into a heroin addict category. Many were/are addicted to presciption pain meds. The bigger point is that if you look at all the research, while yes, there are effects from these drugs, they vary widely. Sometimes there are significant effects, sometimes almost none. And it can be very difficult to identify exactly which drug caused the issue as many times these women may also be smoking, using alcohol, or using multiple drugs. Add to that the fear of being put in jail, and criminalizing addiction or addictive behavior merely puts the unborn child at further risk. These moms will get even less prenatal care if they fear repurcussions from their useage. And most addicts don't get over their addiction by spending time in jail. We spend a lot of money in this country locking people up for doing drugs and it doesn't change anything for those people. They are still addicts.My son tested positive for cocaine. So I have a horse in this race. His bmom didn't get prenatal care because she was afraid of losing her other children. Did she do something incredibly stupid during this pregnancy? Yes. Do I think she's a horrible person? No - she's just in a bad place right now, making bad decisions. We won't help her by putting her in jail.

Thanks for pointing out- yes- it has derailed a bit. I am for offering treatment (even methadone if it is the lesser of two evils) and prenatal care for woman who are struggling with addiction. But if refuse treatment, I think jail time and speedier consequences regarding the removal of children should be on the table. I think child abuse should be treated as a crime. And I think that abusing drugs and alcohol when you are pregnant is criminal because of the torture the woman is subjecting the unborn and often newborn infant justifies treating their abuse as a crime.

Hahaha what? I don't understand why you refuse to comprehend what I'm saying. It should be rather clear. Of course heroin is an illicit drug but the statement that illicit drugs cause severe congenital defects doesn't prove that heroin, or other opiates cause it. "Illicit drugs" is very broad. Stating it that way it's of course true but it doesn't mean that all illicit drugs cause severe congenital defects. Other illicit drugs definitely do. Of course taking any substance during pregnancy should be avoided if at all possible and, like I said, some studies do point to opiates causing certain problems and there is no doubt that it cause NAS in about 60% of the babies which in itself is a serious consequence. It can obviously be harmful for the baby, no doubt. However, heroin and methadone does NOT cause deformities so the fact that Cris89's foster son has deformities that she believes he will be bullied for has nothing to do with his mother's use of heroin and methadone. Maybe it's caused by something else she took. I don't know. But opiates don't cause deformities. As to your other study it doesn't prove your point either since it doesn't specify that the major anomalies of the 15 infants was caused by their mother's heroin use. Although many of the mothers in the study used opiates they are not necessarily the ones who had babies with these defects. The study doesn't say. Maybe their mothers were among the 23% who used amphetamines or the 16% who used multiple drugs. Or maybe the anomalies have other causes entirely. One of the 15 babies had Downs Syndrome which seem to happen by chance. Two of the babies had gastroschisis which is 0.23% of the babies. That's about the same amount as in the general public. Gastroschisis is linked to young maternal age as well as maternal alcohol and tobacco use. The mothers in the above study were young and most smoked. Seven of the babies had congenital heart disease. That's 0.8%. In the general public the prevalence rate is 0.9%. Congenital heart disease has also been linked to smoking and 82% of the mothers in the study smoked. As you should be able to see this study in no way substantiate the effects of maternal opiate use. If you review the studies critically, which someone with some education should be able to do, you will notice that there are many potential causes for the problems the babies in the studies and none, except for the one about the QT prolongation, point to a direct link between opiates and birth defects. The sentences you bolded referred to illicit drugs in general as causes for severe birth defects but it doesn't mean that all illicit drugs cause it. It's like saying that environmental factors lead to birth defects and claiming that this means that all environmental factors cause birth defects. Finally, again, I am NOT claiming that opiates are harmless for developing fetuses. They are not. They can cause harm. But they don't cause physical deformities. I was commenting on Cris89's comment that her FS' mother's use of heroin and methadone caused his physical deformities and she's mistaken about that. That was my only point. And of course I realize that anecdotes of my clients doesn't prove anything but that doesn't mean that it's not a useful observation. And yes, I was privy to the medical info on the babies. None had missing or malformed organs and there is nothing that points to opiates causing that kinds of problems either. It's not problem free but it doesn't cause anything like that. Here is some more info from DHS in Wisconsin which may be a more reliable source than the other one. If you want studies that show that there are no links between deformities and methadone and that nothing points to any other severe congenital defects you can read the studies you posted yourself. [url]http://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/mh_bcmh/docs/confandtraining/2010/MethadonePreg11-11-10.pdf[/url]