Adoption and What is "Jewish"?

You are Jewish if you are born to a Jewish Mother who was born to a Jewish Mother. No matter how you are raised. If you adopt a child of a Jewish mother and raise her as a christian she is still a Jew. Just not a practicing one. If once she becomes an adult and seeks out Judisim she does not have to convert. Ask any Orthodox Rabbi, he will give you the same answer, I am sure.

Like I said before, this seems to be a religious question with numerous religious answers. As with any religious question, people believe what they believe, and therefore there is no point in arguing the "truth" of the competing beliefs. Thanks, Yocheved, for making this point abundantly clear.

Hi I converted to Judaism after my husband and I wed. Most rabbis prefer converts to go through the michvah so they to will be accepted even sometimes into the orthodox teachings. Also a child who is not born from a jewish mother often to will go through Michvah to confirm the child to their jewish faith. Both my sons went through Michvah and were given hebrew names. I to recieved my hebrew name at the time of my michvah. We plan to give our new adopted children hebrew names. Most babies when born either go through a Bris or a baby naming ceremony. A bris is a service in which the infant boys are circumcized and given their hebrew names approximately 2 weeks after birth. A girl has a service in which she to recieves her hebrew name. This is a really a joyful event. Also the bar mitvah is when they turn 13 years of age and is to confirm their coming of a man.I hope this helps some......Once born from a jewish mother you will always be jewish. And I think when others say their is no half jew I would just compliment them I believe they maybe telling you that you are a jew. My children went into the michvah because I am a convert and my husband is jew. Now we are all jews. My child claim their jewish faith because I went forward to make sure my children went through the michvah to proclaim their faith through jewish law. And to be recognized through the jewish community their place in our faith. I donot think you can really say a jew looks a certain way because now a days there are many jews who have different characteristics. my family for example, my son oldest son is a jew and he has blonde hair and blue eyes, pale skin, and tiny noise (my Side) my youngest on the other hand looks the typical stereo type of a jews appearrance Black hair, brown eyed, dark skin, and the noise looks like my husbands.Funny isn't it! Today people have so many cultural combinations that can we really give an exact definition of what a jew looks like. LOL I am proud of our faith and proud that I took the step I did to ensure my childrens future in the jewish faith and community. By jewish law my children can be accepted orthodox, conservative or reform congregation. I have made this an important place fro my children and wil do so with my adoptive children. No you do not have to go into the michvah as an adoptive or child born from a non jew but by jewish law it is better accepted with in the congregations especially orthodox or conservative. But to clear up any question on our faith we are Reform Jews.

Hi all! What a fascinating thread! When I started to read it it reminded me of what I had read in REligion for Dummies by Rabbi Marc Gellman and Monsignor Thomas Hartman. They describe it this way. "Tribal religions define members of the faith not by belief but by blood. ... You have to be born into the tribe or culture in order to share the faith ... Belief oriented or open religions seek converts. They need to have clear and easily identifiable theologies because people need to understand the beliefs in order to join up. ... Judaism is one of the few religions in the work that is both tribal and open. You can convert ... but it is also tribal: You're Jewish if your mother is Jewish. Today, some Jews say that you can be Jewish if only your father is Jewish, but not all parts of Judaism today accept this change. ... ... Judaism, Hinduism and almost all native religions of the world ... use birth and not belief to count their members. You can be part of a tribal religion and not believe a single thing. ... Jews who are Jewish only by birth and believe nothing that Judaism subscribes to are often called secular Jews. ... Judaism is unique in that it is both an open, belief oriented religion and a closed tribal religion at the same time! ... This combination of being open and closed has made Judaism hard to understand for many people and is a source of conflict within Judaism." This is from Chapters 1 and 5 of the book. I found this fascinating! Hope it helps somewhat?

Would Orthodox Jews consider my husband to be Jewish? His great-great-great Grandmother--religion unknown His great-great Grandmother--Jewish His great Grandmother--Jewish His Grandmother--raised Jewish but became an atheist in young adulthood His Mother--raised atheist and attends Unitarian Universalist church Him--raised atheist and does not identify with Jewish culture or religion

Yes he is.

Interestingly, I think most of the people in the world would agree with you. My husband would not, his Mother would not, and his Grandmother would not.

Spaypets wrote: Well one other thing would be to dip new dishes. I remember that because when I moved in with my boyfriend in college I took our new dishes to the mikveh, and when he found out he didn't want to eat from them! And of course I had washed them, plus he'd grown up in a very orthodox home, but I guess his mom didn't mention things like that to him. He also assumed all margarine was parve. He was a trial to me! ha! And related to that, brat said I think, though perhaps I'm mis-remembering, that the explanation I learned was not that Miriam was criticizing Moses for marrying an Ethiopian, but was criticizing him for marrying and then stopping having sex with his wife. And his point was that he wanted to remain in a pure state ready to talk to G-d at any time, then I think the story continues that G-d called to both of them that night and Moses was ready to dash right off to the 'temple' (I forget what it was called in the desert), but Miriam had to first go to the Mikveh and purify herself, so she was tardy. This is an interesting thread. I am Jewish but I don't know if I know exactly what is it to be Jewish. I think the quote about the tribal aspect was very enlightening. Because it isn't enough to just accept the religious beliefs (tho that is absolutely necessary I'm sure), but one also has to be sort of 'adopted' into the Jewish "family". A person who converts is considered to 'miraculously' become a child of Abraham, which I suppose must mean it is an adoption by someone who has been dead a very long time. (Though considering how long some of the people on these boards have had to wait to finalize an adoption, post mortem adoptions might be useful!). I am not convinced that Yocheved has it right, I have not studied the law, but I can't imagine any hardliner orthodox rabbi considering an apostate (is that the right word?) to be a Jew. I'd think the orthodox community would turn their back on someone who intentionally rejects the covenant. But I suppose if a person were accidentally raised in another faith (reminiscent of 'secret Jews' during the Spanish Inquisition) perhaps a conversion would not be necessary. I suppose that is hashed out at length somewhere, sounds like the sort of topic that religious scholars would love to debate. Also, brat said My own belief is that being picked on is part of the choseness and the way G-d can 'interfere' with things, such as, so many people in the world were praying that the horrors in Afganistan would be stopped, and I remember praying about it but also doubting how G-d could answer the prayer. And how did it happen that a horribly cruel regime (that had nothing to do with Jews) was destroyed by a powerful country (that is not a Jewish one)? It was because of the Jews, because of the Arabs that hate the Jews and so hated America, so they attacked the World Trade Center, and although the terrorist leader was a Saudi, where did he live? in Afganistan! So where did America attack - Afganistan! And the prayers of people all over the world were answered. I thought it was particularly cool that the USA gave that awful Afgan ruler (I forget his name already!) opportunities to give up the terrorist leader (whose name I also forget! I better take that herb that helps memory - if I can remember which one that is!) and the Afgan ruler's heart was hardened (or maybe it was his head!) and he refused, thus bringing on the attack that toppled his regime. It was all so biblical it was rather cool.

Yup, and the US's killing of the 18 Afghan children yesterday was quite biblical, too. Although I don't know that I'd call it "cool." Or *was* it biblical? The attack that accidentally killed the children was part of a US planned offensive that would keep the still-empowered warlords busy defending themselves, in order to free up some time and space for a constitutional convention. This convention is going to be a PR stunt (an opportunity for Bushco to prance around on TV congratulating themselves) because there's no way the Taliban warlords will allow a constitution to stand.

Oh Lemonchutney, I'm sorry, I didn't mean war was cool, and cool wasn't probably the right word. I just meant that when prayers are answered that seem impossible to be answered, it is something-like-cool, I don't know the right word to use, kind of like a big 'OH!'. An impressed and even a bit scared sort of 'OH!' I don't know if you were aware of the atrocities the Taliban was committing, and in the years before the World Trade Center tragedy when I would add my name to petitions to our govt to try to stop the Taliban, and when I would pray about it, there did not seem to be any possible way the prayers could be answered because no govt was going to waste any time or money saving the people of Afghanistan. So when the attack on the USA resulted (purely as a side-effect!) in the rescue of an oppressed people, it was stunning (not 'stunning' like a gorgeous dress, I mean 'stunning' like the big 'OH!'). It was like 'oh oh G-d moves in mysterious ways, is terrifyingly powerful, can do anything no matter how impossible it seems, and I think I'll go hide myself because who-am-I-kidding-I'm-no-saint and I'm not sure I want to come under his notice and risk getting smited like the Taliban were'. I think prayers of infertile couples are sometimes answered in the big 'OH!' way too. (trying to bring topic back to adoption!) Yocheved - I apologize for doubting your opinion! I did a search and found this interesting quote:

Is there going to be sufficient security by next June for an election to have any meaning or credibility? Where IS Osama bin Laden? Taliban fighters are still there, kidnapping, killing, threatening, and terrorizing. We have insufficient forces on the ground to secure much more than the area right around Kabul, so this conflict has the potential to come back and bite us. And there are plenty of Stinger missiles kicking around loose. We supplied them to the Mujahadeen during the Soviet war.

as bushco; in Texas, we still just call him shrub. Do you read any Molly Ivins material?

Molly Ivins rocks. My favorite Molly Ivin's quotes: -What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority. -I believe that ignorance is the root of all evil. And that no one knows the truth. -You want moral leadership? Try the clergy. It's their job. -Let me say for the umpteenth time, George W. is not a stupid man. The IQ of his gut, however, is open to debate. In Texas, his gut led him to believe the death penalty has a deterrent effect, even though he acknowledged there was no evidence to support his gut's feeling. When his gut, or something, causes him to announce that he does not believe in global warming -- as though it were a theological proposition -- we once again find his gut ruling that evidence is irrelevant. In my opinion, Bush's gut should not be entrusted with making peace in the Middle East.

I know I'm pulling up an old post. But I read this, and felt I need to answer. Others have written that your husband is Jewish. Even if his great X10 grandmother was of unknown religion, he'd still be considered of unknown religion. Except if his great great grandmother converted, which in turn he would be a Jew. But what makes your great great grandmother Jewish? How do you know she was Jewish?

You need to ask a rabbi. A Jew must have either a Jewish mother or go through a conversion process. It is NOT cultural or merely genetic. It is a conscious spiritual journey which is why conversion is so difficult for adults. All Jewish males must have a Bar Mitvah which involves study and new responsibilities within the community. Jewish women have important responsibilities as well.