Dual Citizenship

While we didn't adopt from Russia, we did adopt internationally. I was told at the BCIS office when we (finally) picked up their citizenship papers that we would have to give up their South African passports when we got their U.S. passports. I haven't actually done it yet....but since the expiration on the S.A. passports is past (they were "emergency" passports only good for 1 year) , I'm going to ask to keep them just "for the memories"....

According to RUSSIAN law, any child adopted from Russia is a citizen of Russia, regardless of any other citizenship he or she may have obtained. As a RUSSIAN citizen, he/she must travel to Russia on a Russian passport, per RUSSIAN law. When you apply for a visa to travel to Russia, the consulate is *supposed* to advise the parents that the child must travel on their Russian passport and, of course, no visa is needed. There have been many people who have been able to obtain a visa for their Russian adopted children's US passport and have experienced no problems doing this, but, please bear in mind that RUSSIAN law requires the Russian passport. When travelling TO the United States, US LAW requires all US citizens to travel on their US passport. This is only an issue when travelling to Russia with our kids. If you're not going to Russia, use the US passport. When/if your kids rescind their Russian citizenship, then they will be able to travel to Russia on their US passport, but they will also need *proof* from the Russian consulate that their Russian citizenship was rescinded. Again, all this is PER RUSSIAN LAW. How it is actually enforced or applied will depend on the mood of the consulate officer or customs official. :)

I did a little more research on this one - out of a bit curiosity and a lot of confusion - and found the following: [url]http://www.us-immigration.com/information/dual_citizenship.html[/url] [url]http://www.stpetersburg-usconsulate.ru/citizen_dual.htm[/url] Both describe dual nationality, rules of travel, and the first one lists the countries that allow dual citizenship. They all state - like other have said above - that the US reluctantly allows dual citizenship and so does Russia. Neither 'recognize' the citizenship of the other, however, a dual citizen must conform to the laws of both countries. So they must pay taxes, service in the military if mandated, enter and leave under the country's passport, etc. in BOTH places unless/until one citizenship is renouced. Now I still havent confirmed if an adopted child is *required* to maintain his/her citizenship in Russia until a certain age. Will try and get to that later. Melissa

Well, the military requirement for Russians also require a certain time period of continuous residency in Russia - in other words, if your child lives in the US for 18 years and then visits Russia on a RUSSIAN passport, he will not be required to serve in the military since he did not meet the residency requirements. Not sure about the tax issue, particularly if they will be travelling back and forth on business - but when our kids are adults, they will be able to make these decisions for themselves! :) BTW, I will be renewing our kids Russian passports, just because. When they turn 18, they will make their own life decisions.

This is a good topic- when I was at the US Embassy in December of 2003- the agent told us NOT to allow our son to ever travel on his Russian Passport. She told us that stsatement several times. According to the agent she said that once they travel on the Russian Passport it makes the child eligible to serve in the Russian Army which all boys must do when they are 18. Once we were home I asked the question again to the POE officer at JFK who again told me the exact same thing. Not to travel on the Russian Passport. I am following up with other officals from BCIS to make sure we do what is right for our son. I guess what I am getting at is everyone here has a different take on this- check it out for yourself- so you and your family knows first hand what the law states.

The problem with this is that RUSSIAN law states otherwise. Also, most people are refused an entry visa for their Russian adopted children's US passport when presented at the Russian embassy/consulates, meaning they wouldn't be able to enter Russia on their US passport. I think what the embassy staff meant was - NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT your US passport! Meaning, they would probably travel TO Russia on their Russian passport, but, if anything were to happen (i.e. they needed US assistance) they would present their US passport for that. I know of a few families who were able to get entry visas on their children's American passport, but, this may lead to problems upon entering/exiting Russia when they see that the place of birth is "Russia" on the US passport. So, it can get a bit tricky. This really will only be a problem if you ever go back to Russia with your children. Otherwise, you will always use the American passport. Regardless of what the embassy/INS staff say (and we know that half the time they don't know what they're talking about), Russian law is clear on this issue. It's just a matter of whether you want to take the chance that they won't enforce their own laws (which is a probability). :)

In this instance they maybe did know what they were talking about since they were basically telling her what the US law is (the military stuff I dont know about) - that a US citizen must travel into and out of the US on a US passport. According to the embassy site, Russia has the same law. So you would need both passports to ensure travel into and out of both countries. The embassy also noted that if you did travel to Russia not only did you need the Russian passport but that you needed to make sure it was up-to-date. They cited a scenario in which the Russian passport expires while in country and the traveler - a Russian as far is Russia is concerned - cannot leave without it. The US passport did no good upon exit from Russia, since Russia does not consider the citizen American. It would be nice tho to document some of the places where these laws can be found. That way we can have some references on this from governmental sources. I will try to find some more and maybe we can compile a resource list. Melissa

Well. as much of a pain as this discussion is causing me, I am grateful to stumble on this issue now rather than at SVO where someone is denying my son entry -- or worse -- trying to keep him in the country! I'll get hopping on this issue now with our coordinator there and see what we need to do. Thank you all for your pool of knowledge. You are all godsends. ;)

Melissa - I think you hit it on the mark! :) Bcelli - are you bringing your son on your 2nd trip? I would contact the consulate where you will request your visas and ask them what the policy is. If they will issue a Russian visa to your son's American passport, then that should do it. If they refuse, then you will have to renew his Russian passport. Let us know what they say and which consulate you spoke with. It appears that many of us get different information depending on the office. :)

... with a senior State Department person on this topic. The bottom line is that some countries, such as China and Korea, no longer consider a child a citizen when he/she is adopted by a family in another country, such as the U.S. Other countries, such as Russia, DO continue to consider the internationally adopted child a citizen until the child reaches the age of 18 and makes a formal declaration, at a country's Embassy (for example, the Russian Embassy in the U.S.), of the intent to renounce that citizenship. The U.S. recognizes that foreign countries, such as Russia, have the right to consider some Americans, including internationally adopted children, as holding citizenship in those countries, as well as American citizenship. If a child who was previously adopted from Russia wishes to visit that country -- for example, when his/her parents seek to adopt another child -- the Russian government requires that he/she enter that country on a Russian passport, because he/she is considered a Russian citizen. He/she may NOT enter Russia on an American passport with a Russian visa, even though he/she is also a U.S. citizen. However, he/she must have a U.S. passport to re-enter the U.S. after the trip and cannot use the Russian passport, with or without a U.S. visa. The U.S. State Department says that Russia's rule is permissible and that it does not jeopardize a person's American citizenship if he or she uses the Russian passport. The only things that jeopardize American citizenship are actions that show intent to become a citizen of another country or to give up his/her American citizenship. Since the adopted child did not ask to be considered a Russian citizen, and since his/her parents obtained proof of American citizenship for the child, he/she clearly did not show such intent. Many parents worry that, if an American child travels to Russia using a Russian passport, he/she will be subject to Russian law once in the country, and could be drafted or subject to certain punishments for violations of Russian law. The State Department says that dual citizenship can, in fact, make it difficult for the U.S. government to protect the adopted child when he/she travels abroad, although it will try to do so. In general, however, the laws of the place where the child habitually resides will have precedence. Thus, American law is most likely to prevail in disputes. A good summary of the issue is found in the following State Department document: "Dual Nationality The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth. A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance. However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship. Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad. Return to Judicial Assistance Page" I hope this helps. Sharon

my wife has dual citizenship, Americand and British. When we go to England she uses her British Passport, and when we come back she uses the American. Its all good.

Sharon - THANK YOU! That Information is wonderful.... I know when traveling with a Dual Citizenship of US/German you use the German Passport to go into Germany, and the US Passport to enter the US. Just like NC_adoption_dad's wife :)

I guess that answers that question. I'm off to another blessed paper chase! Egad! Thank you all so much. You're priceless. And yes, EJsDad, our kindergartener is going with us. we consider this a family experience and he's been involved since Day 1. He's looking forward to "seeing my hometown." And I am ever grateful he feels that way. And he dang well better enjoy it!!!:D :D :D (That's a joke, people.)

We have been told the same thing about the Russian military. We were told to cut all ties to Russian citizenship for our son to protect him in case he chooses to travel to Russia at age 18. If we don't cut the ties they suggested not allowing him to travel to Russia until he is much older. This is to protect our son from being drafted into the Russian military. I checked into a few different ways of doing things and decided I'd rather be safe than sorry. As much as I want my child to embrace his heritage, I don't want to lose him at the age of 18 because of a bad travel idea. Maybe I'll change my mind later. By the way doesn't the tax write off have soemthing to do with citizenship? I think it does, though I'm not completely sure...I leave that to my accountant! ;-) Shana

Thanks Sharon for that detailed response! :) Ah, so is he also from the same place as your #2? A five-year old should be an "interesting" experience! LOL. :)