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We just got a new fd a couple nights ago. She is 4 and a half and we are running into some concerning behavior.
She was brought into fostercare because of sexual abuse by father,her mother had just passed away 2 weeks ago and she had benn staying with her grandmother. It sounds like she had a very unstable life. Father was sexually abusive on drugs and physically abusive to mother and probably her. The mothers death is also being investigated....for possible homicide by the father.
We noticed some problems right away. She is very talkative and expressive. She has already told us so much...about her abuse and life that we are having to right it all down to give to the assesment worker.
She is constantly hugging or trying to kiss strangers...anyone and everyone she comes in contact with. We have talked to her over and over about it...and she continues to do it....you turn your back for a minute and she is already going up to someone trying to hug them.
She is also very bad at listening to you...her mind goes off to some other planet....you have to repeat things to her over and over....and try and get her attention.
She doesn't do what she is told....constantly ignoring what you are saying or have asked her to do. She has also been defiant at times, saying..."I don't care" and "You think your the boss?".
We've already talked the the worker about getting her into therapy...we just have to wait until after court when they actually open up her case.
I'm sure the therapist will help us figure out everything she needs help with...my guess is...
* dealing with the loss of her mother
* dealing with the issues realted to her sexual abuse
* probably RAD
Do you think her hugging everyone has to do with RAD and her unstable history or because of the sexual abuse and not understanding proper boundaries?
I've also heard of kids with Fetal Alchohol effects having similair issues with strangers and not understanding boundaries and acting impulsively.
What can I do in the mean time...to help her understand that she can't just hug everyone she runs into? Any advice is appreciated.
I'm also kinda nervous that she may act out some sexual behaviors on my other children....she hasn't yet...and we have talked about the rules in our house...and private places...etc. I'm just afraid to let her play alone...unsupervised with my children. I just see that she acts impulsively(with the hugs..kisses and closeness) and I would never want to expose my children to harm....even though she is only 4 years old.
This little girl sound just like our daughter.....in fact I thought this was one of my old posts as I read it.....
My advice is to KEEP her in and watch her at all times.... We have had our child now for two years and just started Day Treatment last week because she is so at risk for being sexually abused or she is going to end up abusing another child that School is not a reality at this point. Our daughter was nearly five when we got her.
The hugging strangers is a RAD sign....for sure but It will take time to see if this is RAD or the sexualized behaviors.... Everyone in her world right now is strangers--so it could take time to see if there is any attachment with you. Our daughter gets very confused about the whole stranger issue---She likes to remind us that we were stangers the day she met her forever parents...Hard to argue with this...Stanger danger is still an issue for her....
DO NOT let her play with ANYONE alone... And even then sexual abuse takes only a second to happen.... Our daughter has made attempts on her biological brother who we also adopted...
Actually in our home there are real firm rules that no MALE can be alone with Makala not only to protect the male from her attempts--but alse the possibility of false allagations later down the road.
A sexually abused child will not understand the word "private" our daughter thinks private is a dirty word because when I tried to teach her she picked up on my negative feelings... I didn't figure it out until the word private was used in a different context and she thought about sexual behavior when I did. If she has been sexually abused then it is possible that it is NO Different to her then playing a game of Go Fish. We cannot erase the sexual abuse these children face.
I think that you might want to help her get stabalized and then move her on.... My expereince is that the moment you feel things are safe another sexual behavior pops out. We really cannot let our guards down with a child who is sexualized and if there are other kids in your home to protect then..... it is going to be hard....
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I would hate to give up on her. She has already lost so much in her life. We seem to already be forming a bond...or at least an understanding. I lost my mother when i was 16 so I know how it feels to lose a mom. She has opened up to me a lot.....although she seems to be doing that with everyone.
She really hasn't shown any sexualized behavior....with dolls or my kids....she just likes to play really close....like face to face with my son...who is about 6 months older than her....that kinda gets me on edge....I also found them (my son, my almost 3 year old daughter and her ) laying in bed covered up...playing house like they were sleeping...that really made me nervous because they kept wanting to close the door...I made them all get up and keep the door opened.
I think it is my nerves more than anything....i feel like i have to keep her in my sight at all times...just to make sure nothing inapropriate happens.
I do really worry for her future. It sounds like her grandma will be trying to get custody of her, but she has only been in care for a couple days now, so we don't know what will happen yet. We do hope she will get to go home to grandma soon.
I am also worried about her acusing my husband of anything. I try not to leave her home alone with him....even with all the kids in the house....my husband is very nervous about even giving her hugs or kisses....she will always come up wanting a hug/kiss and he will just tell her.....I already gave you your hug today....I can't give you anymore. I know that sounds sad.....but she is constanly wanting to give hugs and kisses and while we want her to feel welcome and loved we want her to know when it is appropriate and when it is not.
We certianly want to teach her not to hug strangers....that is her biggest problem right now. I'm not kidding....everywhere she goes she tries to hug/kiss someone...and it will happen so quickly you didnteven know she was about to do it. It's like i need a little (baby leash) to keep her by my side and not wandering off to some stranger. The strangers think it is all nice and say how wonderful she is and how sweet she is....i just want to tell them...."no...don't you understand it is dangerous and inappropriate". When i make a comment to her in front of them...they look at me like i'm some mean mom...to make such a big deal out of her being so sweet.
My fdaughter is like that too. She's extremely friendly with strangers. We have a rule that we only hug and kiss family. I have had to model this behavior for her and often people want to hig her or ask her for a kiss and I have to say we have a rule against that for right now. she goes to a therapeutic deaycare where they reinforce that rule as well.
Push for a therapist familiar with attachment and foster care. The behavior and history you describe are consistant for a child with RAD. Your right to be concerned about your other kids and she should not be left unsupervised with them. Are they younger then she is? Can they understand and tell you if they need to?
When around strangers, she needs to be with you at all times-holding your hand or in the shopping cart. She likely has no idea what a stranger is. You were recently a stranger and she's suppose to allow you to meet her needs. Her world doesn't include the understanding of strangers.
I've used cameras in playrooms to allow observation of play while I cook or whatever needs doing. I use alarms on all bedroom doors to prevent children from harming themselves or others. Many kids with the history of this little girl do not sleep well and can wonder off or get into things in the night. The alarms will alert you of this but they also give the child a sense of safety as noone can enter their room without their knowledge.
This little girl needs a lot. She has not had the chance to be a baby and know what it feel like to have a mommy take care of her. She's lost her mother forever, now. Protect her and care for her as you would an infant that needs a 24/7 mom to survive.
[url]www.radzebra.org[/url] [url]www.attachment.org[/url]
Thank you for your advice and websites.
Yes we have a lot of young kid in the house. 3month old fs, 10month old adopted daughter, 3 year old soon to be adopted daughter , her, and our 5 year old adopted son.
When we are out in public it is difficult because i have my hands full with the babies and my eyes are always keeping track of all of them, i usually have them holding hands or holding onto the cart.
I know she will require a lot of time and patience. i just know myself and the first sign of her doing anything improper with my children i know i will probably freak out and call DHS to come pick her up. I understand it is not her fault...she has been exposed to things she shouldn't have been exposed to this early and certianly not by her father. I really like her and want her to work out...and be able to be there for her until she can hopefully be placed with her grandmother. I just have an obligation to also protect my children and my other foster children. I do like the idea of putting an alarm on the doors....so we can make sure we know if anyone goes in or out. She does share a room with our 3 year old daughter(so the danger is still there). I'm trying to think how we can give her her own room...and i might have an idea... it will just be a lot of work....but now that you guys got me thinking about it...I might have to change things around tomorrow...just to help ease my fears.
As you can imagine my eyes can't be on her constantly during the day because i also have housework and two little babies to take care of. I know she would probably be better off in a home with her as the only child...so she can get all the attention and therapies she needs...but that is just not possible. Our foster homes are so over crowded that even if I did tell DHS to put her in a home with no kids...she would still be placed in a busy home similiar to ours. I think the only way she might be placed by herself is if she did start acting out with other children....and at the same time they might justify it...saying she is only 4...it's normal for her to be curious about that stuff.
My main concern is still her affection towards strangers. She knows the rules...but she still goes up to strangers... I can't hold her hand all the time...I don't have an extra hand to spare. Instead of just talking to her about it when she does it...should i also set up some kind of punishment....like to have her fold her arms....or to have her go to time-out... or to take away a privelage. What has worker for you?
I was also thinking about getting her into a pre-school program....but now i am wondering if that is a good idea...that means more exposure to strangers...and more time away from me....when i should be trying to create a bond with her and help her through some of her issues. Do you think pre-school would be good for her at this time...maybe I'll wait until she gets into therapy and ask her therapist.
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You do have your hands full. I think I would try some cameras. I taught my youngest at four that in public, it is his job to keep track of me, not mine to watch him(of course I did watch him). When he'd begin to walk away, I'd ask him what his job was and he would come back and tell me "Stay with mom".
She may never act out any of the sexual abuse. She needs you and your husband to hug and kiss he lots in an appropriate manner so she knows that love should feel good and not hurt. She needs to learn good touch and bad(be sure to talk to her about not letting anyone touch her or her touch anyone else and to tell you if they do etc.)
Make sure you find time for you with all these kids so you can keep being a calm loving mom to them. Even with healthy kids, 5 young ones is a lot to manage.
I think the only way she might be placed by herself is if she did start acting out with other children....and at the same time they might justify it...saying she is only 4...it's normal for her to be curious about that stuff.
DHS should not see this as normal behavior from a 4 year old who is known to have been sexually abused. In fact it is important that the caseworker be told about this stuff in order to insure it is documented and part of the case file. Should she be placed with the Grandparents and for some reason this ends up not working she may re-enter the system and there might be a future need to place for adoption. and it would be important to have this info.
Also I would document these things just in case there were to be something happen and for some strange reason you were blamed.... I can tell you that our daughter who was placed right before she turned five has a very bad memory and as her therapy progresses she has made statments aggainst me and my husband that have made me feel uncomfortable so far nothing that has been horribly alarming but recently in therapy she asked her doctor if they could grow up--get married and twiddle with each others privates to make a baby :eek: When asked where she heard the phrase Twiddle with private parts she looked at me and said I had told her this :eek: In all my life I do not think I have ever used the word twiddle....
Also should she need to be moved from your home and if you feel she needs to be the only child the info you provide might actually make this possible.
She may or may not ever act out sexually some children do and some do not. Either way it is hard to keep your eyes on every moment of a childs life.
I would not punish her for hugging strangers YET.... It is possible that this is a reaction to the past few months of life... She is in a new family and just lost her mother so hugging might be really important to her right now. If there was a memorial or something like that for her mom there is a great chance a lot of strangers were hugging her... If her mother was in the hospital there is a chance that nurses and other caring people hugged her...
I would remind her often that hugs and kisses are for family only. I have tried with some sucess to have Makala High Five with non-family members. At her new school I was told the staff will NOT let her have hugs for several weeks UNTIL everyone knows each other very well.... These people are trained in treating sexually abused children and are helping us deal with teaching our daughter who is okay or not to hug.
You might put some kind of monitor in the room where the two girls are together. We have monitors in nearly every room of our house now.
I read a really good book (biography) of a Foster Mom who dealt with a FD with similar problems. It's called "Another Place at the Table" by Kathy Harrison. If you have time to read (yeah right with a 4 yr old) it was very interesting. I pray for this little girl she is young enough to overcome the emotional/physical abuse with lots of therapy and sounds like God has placed her in the right hands!
Thanks for all your help and advice.
She has really improved over the last 2 weeks we've had her. Actually it has pretty much disapeared...we've been real strict about watching her constantly and the moment she acted like she was going to cross those boundaries...we immediately called her name ...told her we don't hug strangers only family...and for her to fold her arms...she has really come along quickly. The last time she was about to do it...was with our friend....we were eating dinner at his house and she was half way into a hug..when we jumped in and stopped it. Our friend handled it very well...and completely understood our reasonoing of setting appropriate boundaires for her.
She did jump out of the car and hug her brand new social worker....but I think that was only because her social worker came at her with open arms.I did allow her to hug her..and said, this is your social worker...she is going to be your friend and help you get back to your family....so you can give her hugs. I did talk to the social worker about it...and told her to watch her and make sure she wasn't going around hugging everyone(she had picked her up to go to the sheriff's office...so they could question her).
We have decided to stop fostering....we are keeping the little baby boy we have until he goes home...but have decided to have her go to another home. I was able totestify for her in court this week...and am writing down everything she has told me and all my concerns...to give to the social worker and new foster parent. I think she is a wonderful little girl...I have just been...debating with myself and my husband now for a couple months...how long we were going to continue fostering....and how many kids we felt comfortable with. For us right now...5 is just to much. We are ready to enjoy our 3 kids...and possibly our last foster baby....we may take...only babies from now on and only one at a time or he may be our last. That still allows us plenty of family time and one on one time...with our newly adopted family.
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Sometimes it is just best to focus on your children; especially when you are overwhelmed. Best of luck to you and enjoy your kids:)
Hi Mom2grl.c,
My little girl was 4 yo. when I adopted her and she also liked to hug on everyone and just like this little girl you have everyone thought she was so sweet (which she really is) but didn't understand my fears about the danger this put her in. However, My daughter was not sexually abused just badly neglected. She is now 7 years-old. and I have taught her about bondaries and she now has them in place. It just took time us repeating the rules of no hugging on strangers etc. and she would mess up from time to time but finally got it. But hugging strangers doesnt necessarily mean a child has been sexually abused My daughter has never touched another child inappropriately and has never shown any of the signs of a sexualized child.