Power Struggles/Sulking

Can you expand on the situation a bit more? Is he refusing to go to bed at all? Getting up all the time once in bed? Do you have a clear set routine? When my kids first came, they didn't have a bedtime routine as they were basically allowed to watch cartoons and would be put to bed after they fell asleep. It was a difficult change at first but sticking to a consistent routine did make a huge difference.

Consistency is essential. You cannot give in. You must establish yourself as the person in charge. That gives the children a sense of security. They will then know that you are strong enough to take care of them. They will definitely fight it and test it, but you must demonstrate that you are able to keep them safe by being in charge.

Consistency and guided choices. Don't ask open ended questions like "what pajamas do you want?" Ask do you want blue pajamas or red pajamas?, as an example. Also a 5 minute warning may help prepare for changes. In 5 minutes, lights go out, etc.

Let's see... I lay his PJ's out in the bathroom right now so he puts on whatever's in there. THe routine now is: 7:55 he brushes his teeth. 8:00 we come upstairs, read to him for 15 minutes and give him a glass of milk. 8:15, the lights go out, and we hang out in his room until 8:30, give him a hug and kiss, and tell him goodnight. And here's where it's started going awry lately. I am certain he's just ticked off that we're leaving the room. He suddenly is adamant that we NOT give him a hug or kiss (our attachment therapist says to do it anyhow) Then he will refuse to lay down. Or he'll start a fight with one of us. Or we hear him get out of bed. Or when we walk by, he sits up in bed and just GLARES at us like he's daring us to come in there and make him lay down. OR he comes down 90 million times. Now if he's lonely and comes down and says he's lonely, we usually sit with him in the rocking chair for 5 minutes, give him a hug and put him back in bed. That doesn't bother me. It's the nights with the oppositional behavior that get us both. Usually there's a full blown tantrum on Monday nights, because I am at dance practice and my husband is here alone with him at bedtime. What we're doing now is that if he can't listen, we take things from his room. For any night he goes to bed without a fight, he earns one item back... we've had his radio for 2 weeks. He also lost his "Screen time" (computer, TV and playstation) last week and hasn't earned it back yet). We have decided any night there's a fight, he hasn't earned a story for the following night (since this is an attention seeking behavior). One that worked well to get him to lay down but I'm not sure we should do, is my husband turned off all the lights upstairs (he doesn't like the dark) and told him he had exactly one chance to do as he was supposed to or the lights would be off for good that night. It is effective, but as I said, I'm not sure it's a good idea. He had been permitted to go to bed whenever and had TV, DVD, and playstation in his room at his previous placement. We don't do that here. His bedtime WAS 9 when he got here but we had so many issues at bedtime, we moved it to 8:30, which worked for awhile. He has been campaigning to have the bedtime moved back to 9 for the summer. This morning we told him no, because he knew we were still considering it and we felt he has not made a good case, based on his behavior in the past 2 weeks (10 out of 14 nights, we have had a bedtime battle). We told him we'd reconsider midway through summer, based on his behavior from tonight until his birthday (late July). I agree, we have to crack down on bedtime, because he needs like 11 hours of sleep or he is extremely unpleasant to be around the following day. And we're supposed to be setting a clear boundary. Any suggestions on what we can do differently/in addition to what we're doing?

I'd stick to the routine and at 8:25 tell him in 5 min. you'll be leaving the room. Then leave. If he comes down, take him back to his room without saying a word. Don't fall for the "I'm lonely" thing, unless you truly feel he's not playing a game there. I'd probably stand outside the door or sit in the hallway so if he comes out, you can lead him back to bed and do so without saying a word. He's testing you to be sure, but more than that, he's controlling the whole situation and you/emotions etc. Need to take that control back. I'd probably sit him down and discuss the bedtime routine again, what he should expect and what is expected of him. Explain that if he doesn't follow the routine, he will have to go to bed 15 min. earlier, or he will not get a story the next night etc. Might help to make the consequences related directly to the bedtime routine as opposed to taking away screen time etc. And really, as long as he's in bed, he can glare all he wants and "dare" you to make him lie down. Just ignore it and leave the room. Once he truly understands this isn't getting a rise out of you or controlling you, he'll probably stop with the tactics. Does he have a nightlight? My dd is 7 but needs to have a nightlight on. Seems to help her feel safer. Hang in there and stick to your guns.

okay I do something different . I tell him bedtime is 8:00 but good behavior can earn him until 8:30.If he acts up at bedtime(or during the day), he knows he is going to bed at 8. I tried taking things away with my bio son B and it never worked - He did not have a TV in his room for years! :) One of the Nanny shows had a good techinque (or at least it look like it). The boy kept coming out of bed, so she had Mom or Dad sit on the floor in the room but not talk or look at the boy. If he got out of bed, they put him back in and started the whole thing again. By the end of the week they were only there 10mins (at the begin they were there over a hour) Nightlight is key if you don't have one - Boys do not like to admit they need/want one.

He has a nightlight, and we also leave the hall light on for him, so that's not the issue. But I will definitely consider both ideas... they might work!

We have an almost 4 yr old foster child the same - we had a week of her getting out of bed and being put back again (with biting, kicked, swearing at us) but what we did was to stand in the hall so she could see us (with a low watt lamp on in her room) until she fell asleep - after a week, she was going to sleep without a problem and after 3 weeks of being with us, I bit the bullet and told her I would be going into my room to watch TV whilst she went to sleep (she was waking up at 6 am and wouldn't lay quiet unless I was standing in the hallway!) - it only took half an hour of getting in and out of bed for her to go to sleep and for a few weeks we had peace, with her going to sleep with me in the next room. However, she has regressed since being told she is going home and we have now had 5 nights of constant battle!! So I can fully empathise! I spoke with my social worker today and asked whether it would be worthwhile to go back to standing in the hall for a couple of days as she is obviously anxious (although I still feel there is a lot of controlling on her part and not all anxiety) and see if she calms down. I am waiting on my husband to come home to discuss with him cause I would hate to go back to standing in the hall and then when we try to go back to her going to sleep on her own (with me in the next room) that she will not do it - she goes home in 2 weeks, so i want to try as much as possible to get the good routine back before she does!! Sorry not much help but thought I would empathise! PS We also turned the lights off for her when she would not settle which worked initially as she did not like the dark but one night I had had enough and turned all the lights off in the house and went to my room (it was late) and the next minute she was down in the lounge playing (with no lights on) - so much for her fear of the dark! She has had no night light for the last few nights and it's not worried her, she hasn't asked for it!

PS I have read that if there is attachment issues, they do not understand consequences as other children would therefore taking stuff away doesn't seem to work - I have tried it with our foster child and she doesn't care a hoot at the time that she won't get on the trampoline tomorrow, or her pretty dress will be put away for a few days - she just doesn't care!

We have a set bedtime. If they are not in bed at that time, and staying there they will owe that time the next night. so, if betime is 8:30, but he messes around till 9:00, then next night bedtime is at 8:00. I tell my kids that their bedtime is MY quiet time, and if they get into MY time, they owe me. If they want to read in bed for half an hour, that is fine, as long as they stay in their rooms. I will give them a choice "Do you want prayers now, or do you want me to come back in 15 minutes for prayers?" Either way, they are in bed. And just a side note: I would discontinue the milk after brushing teeth immediately. Water is fine, the milk will sit on his teeth all night and he will end up with a mouth full of rotten teeth.

Not sure if this will be of any help to you. We have a 5 year old girl, when she first got here we had trouble getting her to go to bed, she always wanted to go to "her mama's house". We set bedtime for 8pm and she has to start getting ready for bed at 7:30pm, we let her pick out her pajamas. After she has brushed her teeth and gone to the bathroom one of us will go in and read her a story and tuck her in, in the beginning I would have to go in and talk to her, comfort her, and let her know that even though she was unable to go to "her mama's house" she would say that she missed her mama and I would assure her that her mama missed her also, but for now she (mama) wanted her (fd) to stay with me and my husband for now, just until things were worked out and it was possible for her to return. That seemed to calm her. The children have been with us for 5 months now and every once in awile she reverts to the previous bedtime problems. When she doesn't stay in bed or if she is caught playing around when it is time to get ready for bed we remove things from her room, she likes to sleep with stuffed animals and dolls, so when we remove things it is usually one of those items.

I am reading (and taking notes from) Taming the spirited child - Strategies for parenting challenging chidren without breaking their spirits. It's great, and although one has to consider each child differently and foster/RAD/etc. children differently again, still the basic concepts of respectful encouragement of appropriate behavior are sound. And yes, it talks about what to do when they just lose it anyway. My little guy had extreme sleep issues when he arrived and as time goes on I hear tidbits of why - never any "abuse" in foster homes but lots of doors shut and dark scary rooms because he was just not going to bed and was attention seeking all over the place to the point of driving everyone nuts. And he drove me nuts too, but after three months or so we finally got into a good routine that worked for both of us. jan :hippie:

For a couple years and a couple children I just stayed in the room reading until the child fell asleep, that worked so much faster than trying to leave and dealing with an upset child. Eventually the therapist suggested I assure the child I would check on her every 10 min. My daughter wasn't ready for that much time, but agreed to a few two minutes checkups and then 5 minute checkups. The past several months I've used computer time as a bribe, if she's in bed on time she earns 1 hr of computer time (to be saved up to use on the weekend). Recently she's been wanting to stay up reading for a while and then she started pushing it too much and wouldn't turn the lights out at a reasonable time, so now she has to pay me a dollar for every minute the lights are on and/or she is still talking to me and/or leaving her room. That worked real well for a while, then last night she kept talking and lost several dollars. That had happened before without any big disaster, but she had just finally after months of doing extra chores to make money, saved up just barely enough to buy a special item that we were going to go today to let her purchase. Well, when she realized she wouldn't have enough for it she fell totally apart and wound up tantruming and bullying and negotiating until she'd lost all her money (lost it from her spending-Piggybank to her savings-Piggybank) and finally fell asleep at midnight. So that technique really backfired on me. I feel so sorry for her because she really did work so hard. I suppose she might be a lot better about lights out now tho. It is all very hard because she has a lot of abuse issues and flashbacks and serious fear, so sometimes she does need me and I always try to be there for her then. But she also has a lot of bossiness and manipulation, and I don't want to be ruled by the kid of the house.