Defiance in Foster Children

No advice, just wanted to tell you how amazed I am of you. And give you a (HUG).

My thoughts were precisely what you are already doing. If you don't take a shower when it is your turn, you don't get one. If you aren't dressed or your homework isn't in your bag when it is time to go, you go to school in your PJs or without your homework. Or if you won't choose your clothes, then I'll choose for you. You don't like it and won't put it on? OK. This outfit is now in your bag and you may change in the locker room at school if you wish. Or you can go in your jammies. You make your siblings late for school, you owe the family our time back. Now you can collect all the dirty clothes and start a load for us. You like being in the bathroom so much, you can clean it today. It takes you two hours to get ready for bed, then you need to get ready for bed first. When you get home from school at 4 o'clock, you'll shower and change and brush your hair, bring down your dirty clothes, and choose and iron tomorrow's clothes. I'd try to make it a little easier on her by getting a shower clock and saying aloud when she goes in, "It is 5:27. You have 30 minutes to be out of the bathroom (or whatever your limit is.) That means you should be done showering around 5:40 and out of the bathroom by 6." Then she at least has the opportunity to self-regulate. If she still wasn't doing a good job, THEN I'd start calling in increments. 20 minutes left. 10 minutes. 5 minutes. 3 minutes. 1 minute. Time! And if her dinner gets cold because she's still showering, then it is only her that gets inconvenienced and not everyone else. I'd make it clear that the more responsibility she showed, the more leeway she got. If she gets showered and ready in 1 hour instead of two, then her shower time can move forward an hour. If she gets ready in 30 minutes, then shower time can go back to normal. If she starts having problems again, it goes back. Her choice. I'd be quick to reward even a couple minutes difference so that she wouldn't feel like it is hopeless or will last forever. That she will see that her actions directly affect what happens. And I'd make her pay back the family for the time and inconvenience. Maybe even with something that she would like doing like making dinner or the menu or the shopping list or even budgeting for a shopping trip. Telling her to do the grocery shopping and whatever money is left over from your shopping list, she can use to buy a treat of her choosing for the family. (Of course, you'd need to know how much it would come out to and give just enough to make it a challenge, offer her the Sunday paper, etc. But it also teaches good money skills, takes some of the pressure off you, and allows her to do something worthwhile for the family--and perhaps even something joyous if she plans well.) Then you set her up for being the hero, and if she fails then it is still something neutral that you can praise her for, while she is working on responsibility and paying the family back for the inconvenience. I totally wouldn't use the mom situation unless there is a direct correlation between talking to Mom and her acting this way.

Echo, I know you must be ready to tear out your own hair--dawdling and dragging of feet make me crazy, too! I agree with you that cutting off computer communications with biomom may make her resentful. Also, as the "new" parent, I would be trying to avoid putting myself in a position where I am standing between her and a parent she has feelings for. I don't think that can ever help us, unless it is a safety/protection issue. Since you have such a full house, you may be familiar with the idea of family meetings. I learned about them from either the Positive Discipline books by Jane Nelson or the book Kids Are Worth It by Barbara Coloroso--I don't remember which. Anyway, my point is that the positive-discipline style family meeting is a good strategy for coming up with consequences and rules about things like showering, putting clothes away, etc. That way, the kids have a hand in structuring the consequence and also don't feel picked on because the rules apply to all. I think your strategy of giving her a window of opportunity for the shower is a good one. If showering is right before bed, I might tell her that in five minutes, she can either be in the shower or in bed,and the next person will be in the shower. I have found this kind of message carries a lot more weight if I am in the room with my child looking right at her. If I call to her from another room, I can count on her continuing to daydream or read, whatever. If you tell T to go to bed and stand there in front of her, will she do it, or what? As for getting ready for school, my friend struggled with this with her son. She ended up telling him that she would have to wake him up 30 minutes earlier every morning until he was ready on time. Whatever the time was when he finally was ready on time would be the official wakeup time for a week. So, if he was getting up at 6:30 and not ready to go when they needed to leave, the next morning she got him out of bed at 6 am. Still not ready? He had to get up at 5:30. Once he was on time, he still had to get up at that hour for a week--that stopped him from sleeping in "just this once". I am not an early riser, so I don't know if I could pull that one off, but it worked for her. As for argumentative behavior, it took me several years to learn to do what dh does--I just don't respond. Surprisingly, not responding works really well in lots of situations. If I say "Pick up the toys off the floor" and dd says "Those are so-and so's, I didn't put them there" or "In a minute, I want to finish this chapter" or whatever, I might just stand there and stare at her. 9 out of 10 times, she will hop up to do it. Another trick that worked wonders for me is the broken record technique--I refuse to say anything except what I just said--I don't get pulled into discussing it, giving reasons for it, threatening what will happen if it isn't done, etc. So if I say "Clear the table" and it doesn't happen, rather than reverting to "How many times do I have to say clear the table? Why are you not helping? Isn't that your dish sitting there?" etc., I just continue to say "Clear the table" in the same monotone unemotional voice. I don't know if this will work with a purely stubborn child, but it works well with mine whose goal is to engage me in an escalating power struggle. One thing that has worked with my crew is to put whatever they are dragging their heels at right before dinner, and then let them know that dinner will be served when the task is done. e.g . "I will start cooking once your room is clean" (if it takes too long, I am out of time to cook and it is PB&J for them) or "Dinner is all ready, we will eat once you have put the laundry away"That will only work if she likes to eat. My kids do, so they are pretty quick to get things done when dinner is on the line. If you like parenting books, it might be worth your time to check out Kids, Parents and Power Struggles by Mary Kurcinka. Hang in there, hope something here is helpful to you!

Echo, A lot of the ideas Ladybugs presented are "natrual consequence" or "love and logic" ideas. As our attachment therapist says, it sounds like T is tuning in to see "The Mom Show". Are you more interesting to watch if you're yelling at her or if you say "No problem. B, please take your shower and T you owe me 20 minutes of chores for making shower time inconvenient". and moving on? Perhaps with T, you could offer a small incentive for doing the behavior you want. (She sucessfully takes her shower all 7 days this week, she gets an extra dessert, or 15 minutes later on the bedtime on Saturday night)

I just want to add my praise to you too, single and raising 7 children....you need a metal :) Secondly, I have this same issue with my fs (the one who was only supposed to be here for 30 days and is still here) He acts like he can do whatever he wants to do no matter how it effects the rest of the family. Yesterday, in front of our case worker and case manager, he admitted that he does things on purpose to tick me off. I have no advice to give you but I do agree with what has already been said. The conversations with her mother have nothing to do with shower time so I wouldn't take that away....unless she was spending too much time on the computer that it eats into the time she is supposed to be taking a shower....that's a whole different issue....then I would shut off the computer until she took her shower.

Also by doing this, Echo, she is trying to control the entire family. She's postponed EVERYONE'S shower, so she is calling the shots.

Echo, What a strong mother you are to raise 7 kids! What a big heart you have! I really recommend Parenting with Love and Logic by Charles Fay and Foster Cline. It is a life saver, especially for kids with defiance issues. The general philosophy is not getting into arguments or control battles, but rather, letting the natural consequences of the child's choices teach them. You set up situations where the kids can learn the value of making good choices. A critical component is the empathy you show throughout. So, with the shower battles, if she blows off her shower time, no shower. Gross? Yes, but that's her problem. She can learn the value of being clean from her classmates, who will eventually let her know that not showering is a problem. Your attitude should be, "No showering? Not a problem, I can love a stinky child!" And let it go. (Easier said than done, I know.) If she won't get out, I think turning off the water is a great solution. She should do restitution for the hassle she gives you. So, assign a chore to help her replace the energy she drained from you. Cleaning the bathroom is a chore that has a nice relevance. Doesn't put her clothes away? Bummer! It may be that she cannot handle the number of clothes she has, and you can thank her for letting you know. She should be grateful that she has such a strong, loving mother, who will respond by reducing the number of clothes she has until it matches her ability to care for them. (This is quite true, some kids really can't handle a lot of possessions, it's overwhelming.) If that's not the problem, alternatively, you could put her clothes away, and she can pay you back your hassle time with chores later. You choose. Late for school? That is maddening, I know. Don't nag, don't encourage, don't get sucked into the drama. You simply announce that the car leaves at a certain time, and at that time, leave. She's not dressed? Bummer. Bring a bag of clothes with you, and let her finish getting dressed at school. (Call and let the school know what your plan is before trying this one.) Hasn't brushed her teeth or hair? Oh, well. You can love a messy, stinky child. Her classmates probably can't, but that's good to learn, and it won't take long for them to let her know their limits. You provide a lot of support and sympathy. Disrupting dinner? If she's using poor dinner manners, and you've already taught her proper dinner manners, then don't nag. Instead, have her eat her dinner in the laundry room or mud room, some safe place where she won't hassle the eyeballs and ears of her family with her eating choices. Not a problem. If she's dawdling, announce that your kitchen and dining room close at a certain time. When that time has come, and she's still picking at her food, take her plate, and without a word, dump it into the garbage or your dog's food dish. Put the dishes into the dishwasher. Send her up to brush her teeth with a kiss and a hug. If she gets upset, provide empathy and assure her that there's always another meal at breakfast, and she can try again then. It is very, very important that you stay in a place that is loving and empathetic while doing these things. The message is that there is a lot of love for her, whatever she does. You can love her no matter what. If she makes sad choices, you will feel sad for her, but you will not rescue her from the consequences of her choices. It's hard to get used to at first. But it is much easier as you realize you have a plan for her defiance, and that the person carrying the units of concern for these decisions is your daughter, not you. I would not limit her computer time with her birth mother as a consequence. It's not really the issue, it will engender a lot of resentment and hurt feelings and unnecessary divided loyalties. I would not be surprised if the emotion involved in contacting her birth mother makes it harder for her to make good choices, so I would be prepared for that. Good luck. Defiance can be very draining. You are obviously a very involved, loving parent. Bless you!

I just want to say that you are a very strong person for taking on 7 children. I did this at one time and unfortanitly I couldn't do it. I think you are doing something great. As far as any advice for the defient child I don't have much if any. It sounds like you are doing a good job as it is. I wish you the best of luck and what a wonderful thing your doing

Tybee said everything I was going to say. Love and Logic is GREAT and I highly recommend it.

Thanks for the great advice! I will go out and get a copy of the Love and Logic book. It sounds as if that is the type of parenting style that I subscribe to and I am sure the book will give me some more great advice. For example- Today T gave me a hard time about getting dressed so I told her "Ok, you have 10 minutes to get dressed and if you are not dressed at the end of those 10 minutes you will have to spend the day in your pj's and you won't be able to go out and play with the rest of the kids" Needless to say she was dressed within the 10 minutes. The idea about standing there and staring at T until she complies also has worked. I'll be using that idea for now on instead of telling her what needs to be done and than walking away, trusting she will comply (which she often does not). Using a monotone voice and repeating the request over and over is something I already use and find it works with all my kids. All in all we had a good weekend and hopefully that will continue into the week ahead. Thank you for all the compliments! They are heart-felt and I appreciate them. I love being a foster mother and meeting the challenges that come my way via my foster children. For me, having a full house means having a full heart! I wouldn't have it any other way.