Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

Nice post, Jannyroo. I appreciate all the effort you put into your threads and posts, even though I am not able to comment on all of them.I didn't even realize I had any issues until "R" and I found each other. And then, I cried day and night for three months straight. It was the beginning of "The Great Purge" which, for me, seemed to be the first step in healing. I didn't know I needed purging or healing. That's how much I didn't know ... Amazing that we lived for decades, not recognizing that we were in pain... still living "the lie" ... until we find that lost part of our lives, the lost part of ourselves. And, just when we think we're going to be all ecstatic and euphoric over finding our child... that's when it hits us... that's when the realizations begin.For me, that is when I began to understand my life ... Thanks, Jannyroo....(((Hugs)))Susan:flowergift:

You are welcome Susan, and thanks for your kind thoughts, its always nice to hear that something helps someone along the way. I like the expression the 'great purge' my goodness you are not wrong! The amount of tears I've shed in the past 18 months... unbelievable!~ I must be getting some kind of healing as I've shed less recently. Like you, I didn't realise that I had any issues until my son came along and then it hit me just how I'd been living my life in shock, slow motion, just living life on a week by week basis, not really acknowledging life, people, events. When I met my counsellor I told her that I couldn't recall most events of the past 20 years or more. Its as if they came and went like a mist. She said that's symptomatic of PTSD. I'd never given it a thought, but Verrier mentions it too, albeit society tends to ignore it. As you say, it is truly amazing that for DECADES we drift through life not recognising that pain. Two weeks before my son found me, apparently my friend told me that I'd mentioned him - is he still alive? is he ok? what kind of life has he had? and yet, I still can't remember saying that. Its as if all my thoughts could not be processed, they were that painful. They surfaced and I buried them, almost immediately, like a vault that only my son's appearance in my life has managed to release. The good offshot to it is the healing, the coming to terms with it, the allowing ourselves that grieving and with it, the release of not only painful stuff but quite good memories that also got buried in the process. I'm going to make an attempt to contact my father whom I haven't spoken to or contacted for several years. He's not an easy personality, but I think he may well be delighted (?) to see how his grandson is soooo much like him - to look at and in his behaviour mannerisms attitudes etc. I'm feeling quite good about him, whereas I've been angry for some time. Angry about life I guess!!! Take care Susan, and good to hear from you. (((hugs))) back Jannyroo :cool: :grouphug:

Well, as usual, Jannyroo, you were right. I took today off and spent an 1.5 hours with a counsellor in a city close to where I grew up (I'm nervous about going to one close to my home as I was burned before). Anyway, PTSD looks to be my monkey. I can't elaborate right now - I'm under watch so to speak and have to go and pick up my daughter from university (I haven't seen her in a few weeks so I'm focusing on her and not the whole "adoption" thing as she calls it). A weekend shopping and going to a show with my best friend and all our kids. I think that's therapy I need right now. Enjoy the weekend and I've got lots of reading to do. Jannyroo thanks for your posts! :battle:

Jannyroo, I too think I suffer from PTSD. After I found my son, I went into therapy for the first time. I remember my first visit with the therapist (a wonderful kind lady who helped me tremendously). I told her that I had thought that after I found my son everything would be ok, and it wasn't! And I didn't want to take my problems out on my family and especially my newly found son. It was the best thing I could've done. I am not in therapy any more, but I am not "cured" either. Sometimes I wonder if I will every heal completely. Thanks to Jannyroo for the original post and for all of you for the support. Sometimes I think the Internet is the best thing that has ever happened to the adoption community. Deb

JannyRoo - what a healing post on PTSD ...thank you for thinking of ALL of us here, as we many of us share the same emotions. I noticed the group mentioned EMPTY ARMS ...is that an egroup. I also noticed you mention a few books on this subject...do you mind repeating some of your favorites - I would like to search them out myself. regards - bobbi

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bfuddled

JannyRoo - what a healing post on PTSD ...thank you for thinking of ALL of us here, as we many of us share the same emotions.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Hi Bobbi,[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]I am soooo glad that the post has been so helpful to different ones, because as soon as I saw it, I read it, copied it to my PC and closed down, because although it was a healing, it also was painful. I was trawling through my pc and 'cleaning' it up by deleting some unwanted stuff and came across it and that's when I decided to post it, hoping it would help heal others like it did me. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]I think I stumbled across empty arms, you know you kinda click on something and then something else.... I've just checked it out on google under 'empty arms adoption' and it comes up as [URL="http://www.emptyarms.org"]Empty Arms Home Page[/URL].[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Sometimes one has to put http: in front of the www bit as some computers can't find some websites, I know that at my local library I couldn't get onto these forums unless I put http: in front of [URL="http://www.forums.adoption.com"]www.forums.adoption.com[/URL]. If you google using 'empty arms adoption' its interesting what other websites come up, but I haven't had chance to explore them yet. The empty arms is specifically aimed at the emptiness and trauma that birth mothers experience that go on in life and have no further children, but of course, the pain, well we can all relate to that.[/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]I have to admit Bobbi, that I haven't read extensively, but the books that have helped me enormously I got off of this website when members mentioned them. I think I got lucky with the ones I chose, as for me, I've not needed any other resources to 'get' where my son is coming from. However, I would read in this order:[/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Comic Sans MS]The Adoption Reunion Survival Guide - Julie Jarrell Bailey & Lynn Giddens[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS]The Primal Wound by Nancy Newton Verrier and her follow up book [/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS]"Coming home to Self"[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]I would however offer a note of caution, especially with birth mothers early in reunion - 'The Primal Wound' does offer fantastic insights to what an adopted child goes through that makes reunion difficult, insights that can help smooth out any reunion because we can step back and see what is happening rather than be puzzled by our child's reaction to reunion.e.g.pull back is inevitable and bmom's do need to be aware of it without panicking. I think it is a book that should be read once there is reasonable communication with the reunited child (in my case I got hold of it 10 months into reunion) and a communication pattern of 'sorts' as it is extremely painful reading for any bmother and my counsellor and I have felt it should come with a health warning! [/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]Therefore, I would recommend first reading to be 'The Adoption Reunion book' (very gentle on the heart) and then access Nancy Verriers' website and read each section ([url=http://www.nancyverrier.com]Nancy Verrier[/url]). Not only does it enable emotionally bite size 'digestible' chunks of what you need to know (without going to pieces), but the impact isn't so enormous on a birth mother as say reading The Primal Wound throughout. BUT I WOULD encourage a bmother to read it later on, say 10 months into reunion and then follow that up with the Coming Home to Self - the adoptee grows up.[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]However! saying even that, I would also caution any bmother who has had abandonment issues in their own childhood (as I have) to proceed even with caution with reading the book 'Coming Home to Self'. The reason I say this, is that when I read The Primal Wound, it sent me into tailspin and morose feelings and made me emotionally 'gag' on it for a good couple of weeks or so. I did recover, but I can imagine some birth mothers not being able to pursue it and the information can send you into shock as to the fact that babies 'know' that the woman picking them up is not their mother, that you have gone and have not come back....[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]When I read Primal Wound and then got the Coming Home to Self book (Verriers' follow up to The Primal Wound) about 8 months later (by now about 15 months into reunion) - I personally went into shutdown and realised that although I had started to read the book with the aim of understanding my son more and enhancing our reunion, I recognised so much behaviour in it that was ME. I came to a grinding halt and went again into emotional tailspin and I realised that I would have to work through my issues before being able to go further. That was an extremely difficult thing to do for me, but rewarding once I'd come through it (about 3 months?).[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]So, there you go, thats my review!!! LOL. Yeh, try Adoption Reunion Survival guide first for an all round approach to all members of the Triad and then Verriers' website. Apply gently and carefully. I tended to want to lob the whole lot in my son's direction, but it can cause pullback, as we bmothers can cope with much more information than our son's who find it hard to assimilate the information we are providing them i.e their identity. So every little clue that adds to the picture as to who they are and where they get their traits from, well it sends them into their 'cave' so its no use standing at the cave entrance and asking 'when are you gonna come out' that will send them deeper into their cave and they will come out when they are ready. If you want to know how I know this, read Men are from Mars and women from Venus by John Gray. !!! Great fun reading and very helpful and informative as to what men and women want from their relationships!!! LOL[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]My son and I spoke yesterday for the first time in 6 weeks and he desperately wants to stop the pullback but can't help it. I do understand. I told him, that its ok, I understand, I know what's going on, like any cake in the oven .. you need to leave it for the amount of time it needs .. if you pull it out too quick, you get one flat cake! Sorry about the analogy, but it was the only one I could think of.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]I will be writing some more on my journal soon, so if you want to follow my ups and downs, triumphs and despairs, I've had quite a bit of despair, but soon I will be writing about the triumph after my son and I's conversation yesterday. Today I'm too tired. This reunion business, well, perhaps it was the stress that got to me, I couldn't breathe and ended up in hospital early hours of yesterday with an oxygen mask. My son asked me why I ended up there, there must be something I was worried about.... well, if I'm honest, I've been worried about you.... We need to show our son's that they DO MATTER, as the awful effects of adoption tells them, that they don't. Thats' why for every email I get from my son, it takes 4 5 or even 6 before he realises 'this person cares for me' and it usually prompts him into replying. More later on that....[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial](((hugs))) and warm love everyone[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]take care, speak soon[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Arial]Jannyroo[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Previously, when I thought about PTSD, I would think about a man I dated who was a Vietnam vet. During our time together, he had a couple "episodes." He had never talked about his experience to anyone, but finally opened up to me. I understand that he tried to bury the horrifying memories, but they emerged from time to time anyway. But, I never thought about PTSD and its affects on the "good" memories. I understand burying the painful stuff, but what purpose does it serve our psyche to bury ALL of the stuff? I don't know a lot about PTSD, and evidently I know even less than I thought I knew. Why did it take going back through tons of photos... seeing pictures of myself as a happy child, pictures of me playing with the children I raised... to "remember" the "good" times? What's up with that? Was it an "all or nothing" situation? Peace, Susan :hypno:

Hi susan,Its a good point you make. To be honest until I saw this post I didn't equate the two. I've often wondered why it takes photos to trigger a good memory only for it to be buried again. I can't honestly answer that question Susan, as I'm buried in it myself. I suppose it's like an avalance maybe? takes everything in its path, not just the bad stuff? I know that when I first saw my counsellor, I had to tell her that the past 25 years or more are pretty much of a blank for me. Its almost as if relinquishing my child filled me with such guilt added on to my already trauma filled adolescent years and onwards, that it was almost like the article said, a drifting through life with no real anchor to things either happy or sad. More sad things did happen in my life. In fact yesterday, I wrote to my father, as we were on the subject of what had happened to me once he and mum split up and I found it a very difficult journey. He thanked me for being able to say it, as it helped him to understand me and why I've been such an angry person. But it was incredibly touching to hear him say he's always loved me and came up with memories that I'd "buried" because to go there would cause too much pain. So maybe that is the key? Perhaps "good" memories can trip us back to the painful ones? Perhaps part of the good memories makes us realise that we could have been having these "good" times with our now adopted child/birthmother, etc whoever you are in the triad. I know that seeing other people's children "killed" me so to speak when I was agonising losing mine due to this system. Also, at the minute, well for some years now, I'm finding that my memory is not only deteriorating, but is so poor, that some poor soul will introduce themselves to me and within literally a minute, I've forgotten. I've now come to the conclusion that my memory is being affected by the stuff that is coming up as I attempt to work through not only my issues with my son, but way back when. The mind is a deep and unfathomable thing. But thanks for highlighting that thought of the good stuff buried with the painful. I hadn't thought of it like that. ((((hugs))) to all those facing and not able to face the agonies of the past.

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SuddenlySusan

... I never thought about PTSD and its affects on the "good" memories. I understand burying the painful stuff, but what purpose does it serve our psyche to bury ALL of the stuff? I don't know a lot about PTSD, and evidently I know even less than I thought I knew.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]Why did it take going back through tons of photos... seeing pictures of myself as a happy child, pictures of me playing with the children I raised... to "remember" the "good" times? What's up with that? Was it an "all or nothing" situation?[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]Peace,[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Susan[/FONT]

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[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Hi Susan,[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Its a good point you make. To be honest until I saw this post I didn't equate the two. I've often wondered why it takes photos to trigger a good memory only for it to be buried again. I can't honestly answer that question Susan, as I'm so buried in the problem myself. All I know is that I blank out most things and have lived life on a day to day, week to week basis. I suppose it's like an avalanche maybe? takes everything in its path, not just the bad stuff? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]I know that when I first saw my counsellor, I had to tell her that the past 25 years or more are pretty much of a blank for me. I can't remember holidays, weekends away to my sisters, hardly anything....! and when I do, its archived and I only have the photos to act as "prompts" and then it gets buried again. Strange huh?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Its almost as if subconciously, relinquishing my child filled me with such guilt added on to my already trauma filled childhood/adolescent years and onwards, that it was almost like the article said, a drifting through life with no real anchor to things either happy or sad. This is part of what dissociation includes: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman]This being outside of ourselves is the hallmark of PTSD. It's called dissociation, and can happen in varying degrees from momentary feelings of distance, to complete memory loss. In trauma, people often speak of watching themselves in the situation from a distance. It is one of the ways our mind protects us from things which are too much to handle.[FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]More sad things did happen in my life. In fact yesterday, I wrote to my father, as we were on the subject of what had happened to me once he and mum split up and I found it a very difficult journey. He thanked me for being able to say it, as it helped him to understand me and why I've been such an angry person. I didn't realise so much was locked up in my head, in fact, if I was reading it as someone else's post on this forum, I think I'd be in tears. But I was not. I'm totally numb. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]But it was incredibly touching to hear my dad say he's always loved me and talked of memories he had of us both that frankly I'd "buried" because to go there would cause too much pain.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]So maybe that is the key? Perhaps "good" memories can trip us back to the painful ones? Perhaps part of the good memories makes us realise that we could have been having these "good" times with our now adopted child/birthmother, etc whoever you are in the triad. I know that seeing other people's children "killed" me so to speak when I was agonising losing mine due to this system. Eventually the numbness took over and a counsellor called it 'permafrost'. In case you didn't know, permafrost is an ice that is so thick and deep, it is much more impenetrable than the usual stuff, puts up quite a barrier. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Also, at the minute, well for some years now, I'm finding that my memory is not only deteriorating, but is so poor, that some poor soul will introduce themselves to me and within literally a minute, I've forgotten. I've now come to the conclusion that my memory is being affected by the stuff that is coming up as I attempt to work through not only my issues with my son, but way back when. The mind is a deep and unfathomable thing. But thanks for highlighting that thought of the good stuff buried with the painful. I hadn't thought of it like that.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]((((hugs))) to all those attempting to face the agonies of the past and to those who just can't. You're not alone. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]

Hey Janny and all. I recognized my symptoms of PTSD about 2 yrs ago. I was sitting in a lecture on the subject, the lecturer being a psychotherapist. After the lecture I approached her and asked if PTSD could be what birthmums suffer...I had recognized so much in how I felt throughout the lecture. She looked at me with what appeared as scorn, and then proceeded to rubbish the very idea...which kinda left me standing there like a dork!!! Google was my first port of call after that experience...and voila...there it was, as many pages as you could read on birthmums and PTSD! I felt like ramming it in her face to tell you the truth...but I didn't coz I'm not the violent type!! Once again though I felt hushed off. It seem like " How dare you suggest such a thing". I felt silenced...a little bit of PTSD creeping in there with feelings of " Well how dare I talk about it. Who do I think I am to even mention it" All those feelings were once again brought to the surface, all those not good enough feelings....rah rah rah!!!!! Susie

That must have been so frustrating for you. I'm aghast at the indifference to what bmothers go through. Perhaps it is denial, as adoption is seen as a very beautiful and loving thing to do and this is rather an ugly facet that those involved in adopting would possibly not like to face. It takes off the sugar coating of a baby that a mother wants to give her love to. I can see why some can't cope with what Verrier has to say, but I think she is brave to expose what the truth of adoption really is. Adoption brings its own unique problems and trauma and they have to be acknowledged and addressed. Perhaps if they were acknowledged, adoptees would grow up responding to better responses from others to their inner pain that would help them adjust to the situation they find themselves in. Perhaps birth mothers would be treated with more compassion for their loss and given appropriate counselling. That could be extended to adoptive mothers that had no idea as to the effect that adoption would have had on both bmother and child, and the special insight they need in raising their children (even with the best motives and deeply felt love that they have to give a child). The book helped me to have compassion for all involved in adoption, as my son's mother raised him having no idea that he was suffering and possibly doesn't know even now. That tempers my response to her. Its no-ones' fault, none of us knew. But we know now. So armed with knowledge, at least we can comfort each other on these forums. Anyway, I digress. But that's possibly why PTSD is not acknowledged in bmom's. It makes the thought of adoption less palatable to those that want to make it seem an altruistic response from bmother and amother. I think you guys know what I'm trying to say. re: PTSD - this is what Verrier introduces in chapt 1 of her Coming Home To self Book: Although more and more attention is being paid to the effects of trauma on the human pysche, separation between mother and child is rarely recognised as a trauma. Authors have written about rape, incest, battering, the holocaust, natural disasters and war, but not about perhaps the most devastating trauma of all: being separated from one's mother at the beginning of life. Yet when else in life is one so helpless and in need of the one person to whom one feels connected - the one who is still part of the Self? The fact that the mothers of these babies were discouraged from seeing, touching, or being available to their infants meant that no one paid attention to the babies' crying and going into shock. I found her book very helpful. It left me feeling more in control of the reunion situation and myself. It helped me identify both my son's reactions to adoption and mine to relinquishment and my own discoveries of what I needed to work through that had nothing to do with my son, but which needed to be addressed if my son & I (and my family & friends for that matter) were to benefit and so would I. I am finding that peace that I never knew I even needed to make me whole. I hope this will encourage others to read (carefully, guard yourself from exploring too deep too soon, or you could find yourself going over the edge...). Susieloo it was good that you recognised your symptoms of PTSD 2 years ago. I only recognised mine about a year ago in counselling. It made sense to me. I've been feeling a distance from the world for several decades now and couldn't understand it. The website this thread is based on 'empty arms' helped me recognise what was going on. I can now deal with it. It may take time, but at least I now know what I am up against. I no longer feel I'm abnormal, just a woman going through normal reactions to an abnormal situation.

I have read those books mentioned here. Truly, Primal Wound is harsh and an eye opener - it was tough to take, but I managed to get thru it twice so far. Also, in reading these books, I determined a couple of years ago that I had PTSD but have never had that verified by a professional or sought counsel for it. My life is a blur since relinquishment (at 14) and memories of anything are instantly archived and forgotten whether good or bad. I don't see myself as being very involved in my own life even though I graduated from college and have had a relatively successful career and life since then. I feel like I'm just going thru the motions or watching myself go thru the motions from afar. It is very surreal, and I don't see how I have been as successful as I am. My whole life feels like a facade and any moment, I am fearful that I will be exposed and everyone will see what a fake I am. I feel like I am acting instead of living.Just yesterday, I was praying and said that I knew that finding and meeting my son would open up more emotion and pain than I am feeling right now, but only meeting him would "open the dam" so to speak. I think that seeing him is what I really want and need, but I know that when I do, I will be emotionally worse before I get better. I need that release in order to expel some of this chaos that is bottled up inside of me. Like, when I relinquished him, I took a giant breath of air and just held it and have been holding it ever since and I feel like when I see him again i will be able to exhale and continue breathing again. Kind of like when you go on a roller coaster and you reach the very tip top of the hill and you are about to go down a vertical drop and you KNOW it will be GREAT when you get to the bottom but right there at the top you are scared and don't want it to happen, but you have no choice if you want to get to the good part, you just succumb to the fear and let it wash over you because you can't stop it anyway and you want to get to the greatness.Well, anyway, I just had to get some of that out. Thanks for listening. Lynda

... I can sooo relate to your analogy. For me, at just over nine months in reunion, the fog is starting to lift, I feel alive when I wake up, and I can breathe again. And, I didn't even know I wasn't awake all that time. Wow! What a revelation!... Peace, Taylor :flowergift: