The money/gift thing...

i actually JUST saw that in a possible adoption situation i saw online. i can not imagine.

I disagree because I can't imagine having to make that decision (having already made it personally) knowing that I was giving my child to strangers...knowing that all my legal rights have already been terminated and I have ZERO say in anything that happens. That's me. I know that's how it used to be done - but it changed because, clearly, that wasn't working out.I don't think the answer to 'scamming' is taking away choices/options - I think the answer is making these 'charities' act like charities and not middle men in a business transaction.There is risk in adoption - but none of that seems to fall on the side of the professionals (the people who are supposed to know what their doing) - and I have to wonder if we'd see far fewer scams/issues in adoption if these professionals knew they were risking THEIR bottom line - not some random adoptive couple who will keep forking out cash for the chance to become a parent.

Brandi, I understand that too. Butthere has to be a way to do it without making a "promises"...I say promises because thats what I heard IRL from a family member of PAPS where the mom changed her mind after birth..."BUT SHE PROMISED them the baby" Maybe be able to sewe profiles of the parents before birth? But the way its gone today in the whole "promising." matching, ownership of the baby even before their born just doesn't sit right with me. The potential for a baby being placed out of guilt, the potential for aparents paying for and losing lots of money to ageny's and the heartbreak of the apaps is too high. It causes such stress and pain to ALL invovled.

I was offered a totally paid-for college education, including graduate school, at the University of California at San Diego if I gave my baby to a certain professor who was a departmental chairperson. I turned him down....in fact, it completely grossed me out. I had met him several years previous to becoming pregnant through an experimental gifted program where advanced junior-high students took college classes on a part-time basis. It was so obvious to me that he wanted my baby because of my academic achievements. All I could think of was that he was going to use my kid as some sort of guinea pig. My son's parents didn't have to pay a dime for him. I decided to relinquish through the county, which was fairly common back in those years, partly because I didn't want money involved and partly because I thought they'd do more stringent screening of PAPs than the other agencies. The caseworker told me that his parents would be required to reimburse the state's Medi-Cal program for my prenatal care and delivery, but I found out in later years that this was untrue. Why she lied about that is beyond me....she lied about a lot of stuff. I don't know what the answer is regarding prenatal matching versus baby-born situations. I can see both sides of the coin. I really, really, really wish that I'd been given the opportunity to select my son's parents. At least I would have been able to choose a couple who shared some personality traits with me. My son is just so unlike his adoptive parents personality-wise, and I think this caused major problems while he was growing up. Personally, I'd like to see ALL money taken out of the adoption equation. I'd like to see uniform federal regulations and state-sponsored adoption agencies. I think the only costs should be to reimburse Medicaid and pay for the actual legal costs. But there is WAY too much money involved in the adoption industry for this to ever happen. It strikes me as odd sometimes that people don't blink an eye at plunking down $30,000 to adopt a baby, and yet they balk at "birthmother expenses". Why aren't they screaming at the adoption agencies? It's the industry that came up with the concept of birthmother expenses anyway...it's a marketing tool.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm misunderstanding the terminology! I really don't want to go back to THAT. THAT is where I was ugh... I guess what I'm thinking is about the pressure that is put on emoms in pre-birth matching situations... and the hopes that are raised for the paps... What the heck is the solution then? I think the actual face to face meeting of people increases those stresses on both sides, or? What would I have liked? I would have liked to meet my son's parents I guess, I don't know if I could have handled it before I gave birth. I would have liked to have met them afterwards and been able to reassure them that I was not going to take him back. But then again, I would have liked to hold him in the hospital. I would have liked to have pictures and updates through the years... ACK!" I'm derailing my own thread!! ;-)

Haha, you're not the first person to try to derail their own thread Q :) I got a bouquet of flowers when we met, but generally Dee does not give gifts. I'm looking for the right way to say this.....I don't EXPECT that she should give me gifts or anything, but I think she almost refuses to as a matter of "policy," you know? Which is fine, but I think there's an aspect of it that leaves things a little formal and a little cold. I don't give her gifts really, but I've sent her cards, or the first gift I gave could have been a combo for her and Cupcake really, stuff like that. As for pre-birth gifts? Obviously that wasn't an option in my situation - but I think it's safe to say that money (or gifts) exchanging hands really only serves to complicate matters and opens the door for problems later - whether that's assumptions being made, finger pointing, etc. I think the saddest thing, to me, is when pregnant women are offerred things by the agencies, the agency in turn tells the aparents what the eMom is "asking" for, and there's already a misunderstanding. Aparents are skeptical/nervous/etc. about putting out the cash and the eMom might be getting judged for accepting the money when she doesn't realize how this is going down, you know? Bottom line on that one? Agencies need to do a better job. Regulate the money that they put out, don't have it be a direct exchange through aparents, etc. I just don't like the taste it leaves in my mouth..... And the requirement to pay money back or place? There's NO room for that in ethical adoptions if you ask me!

My agency told me I could have my medical expenses paid for and also living expenses. I didn't even ask them to elaborate on the details. I was living at home, working full time and had my own health insurance. No, I was not making a lot of money at all. In fact, it was barely more than minimum wage. But the idea of getting money seemed to me like I'd be taking money in EXCHANGE for my baby and that did not sit well with me. I did not take a plug nickel from the agency/paps. I paid out of pocket whatever the insurance didn't cover. I don't begrudge anyone who needs to have expenses paid for, but I don't like the idea of it, and think it is bad policy. My reasons for placing weren't really financial. That was a part of it, but if I was really ready to raise my son, and had family support and the emotional readiness to do so, I think the financial concerns would have worked their way out of the equation. I think it is very sad indeed if a woman wants to raise her child but the only thing stopping her is finances. If I were a pap, I could not take a child under those circumstances alone. Personally, I find it appalling that it is OK for monetary transactions to occur with the expectation that a baby will be received in exchange for that financial support, but if the baby is not signed over, which is the emom's right to change her mind and this is known all along, then it's like "OMG we are out of all this MONEY and don't have a BABY to show for it!" Now the emom is at worst, a horrible person who is a possible scammer or someone who took advantage and should pay the money back, or at the least, they have greatly disappointed the paps and caused a major dent in their savings. This is why I didn't want any part of that sort of arrangement. To me, it smacks of baby buying, it sets up financial dependency on the paps that is not healthy or has the emoms best interest at heart (IMO), it is subtly coercive, and can create feelings in the emom of either owing their baby to them, or feeling bad about "taking" from them and not giving them the baby they so badly wanted in exchange for that financial support. Obvioulsy, real scammers don't care about any of this, but I'm talking about emoms who are not scamming, but just going along with the system as it is set up. I don't believe it serves anyone well as it is. I think if emom expenses are being paid the money should come directly from the agency, and perhaps could be funded by a minimal charge that is paid for by anyone applying to adopt a child, or through fundraisers or donations or other means of raising capital, and if the emom decides to parent, the AGENCY should pay back the money. After all, it is their policies and they are facilitating these transactions. But I really think money should be taken out of the equation entirely, and also agree that baby born situations are the ideal way to go.

I don't like the idea of doing away with pre-birth matches just because it smacks to me of the same sort of paternalistic BS that used to not allow women to see or hold their babies before placing them, etc. I feel like an expectant mother considering adoption is probably in a situation in which she feels like she has very little control, and anything that takes what control she does have away from her is a bad idea. If an expectant mother wants to match before her baby is born, that should be her prerogative; if she wants to wait until after the baby's birth, that should be her choice as well. Part of the solution, I think, is making sure hopeful adoptive parents *really* understand what they are signing on for. Our agency made no bones about the fact that signing on with them did not guarantee placement of a baby. They asked us up front how much - if anything - we were willing to pay for expectant parent expenses and expectant parent medical expenses. They made clear to us that these expenses were not reimbursable in the event of a failed adoption. So we went into it with our eyes open. We paid very little in expectant parent expenses - less *total* for the two adoptions than what we'd said was the maximum we were comfortable with when we signed up with the agency to adopt Julia. I think that's an important part of the equation, and based on how often you hear comments that sound like the hopeful adoptive parents feel they're "owed" a baby because of the amount of money they paid, it's clearly overlooked far too often.

i had the opposite problem with my agency.They were going out of their way to NOT help me! At my first appointment I checked off on a questionnaire that I needed assistance with clothing etc. Well, I was given no further info on it and it was never brought up again...Until i found out that the adoptive parents had paid thousands of dollars to the agency and a portion of that money goes to fund a maternity home through the agency. I was livid that at 16 i had to pay for all my maternity clothing with very little help from my parents but other pregnant girls were getting asdsistance from the a-parents. When I found out I was 9 months along and my case worker said I needed all my receipts to be reinbursed,which i had not been saving, and said she didn't tell me more about it because by looking at me it didn't seem I needed the help! I got a new case worker immediatly.

M-Mom,LOL, at least you had maternity clothes! My mom absolutely refused to help me buy any maternity clothes. (I was 16 years old.) I lived in a foster home the first few months of my pregnancy, and the foster mother drank away the money...she refused to give me the clothing allowance I was suppposed to receive. I moved back home when I was 5 months pregnant, and my mom just wouldn't help me with anything.Fortunately, peasant tops were in fashion back then...so that's what I wore. I also used large rubber bands on my jeans so I could pop open the button on the waistband.Kind of makes me angry when I look back on those days...