Things I may not think to research...

yeah...my 8 and 9 year old did not know how to bathe. there were many many lessons. lol. i just had them put their bathing suit on and hop in the bath and then we went over how to wash, what to wash, how to dry off, etc. i had to give teeth brushing lessons, lessons on using a fork, using a napkin, eating, not smearing food in their hair, not flicking it on a wall, using a toilet, not peeing in the bath. i had to teach them social norms- when to say good bye to people, when to say hello, when to say thank you. (i'd have to lean into their ear and say things like, "this is when you say, "good bye."). really....dh and i called parenting them at first, reparenting. they had lived so long in care in a facility, and before that had been so neglected, that they just didn't know things that kids their age knew.

Play! My oldest at 5 did not really understand how to play. He was very drawn to baby toys and had no idea about nursery rhymes, toddler/preschool songs/sayings, games appropriate for his age etc.

Ours were 9 and 10. We had the bath and wiping issues. They wiped with their hands and then wiped their hand on the toilet paper. We were mostly able to train them without being in their with them. I went in and taught them how to bath one time only with each boy. Our RAD kid is unteachable. He has to figure things out for himself and he isn't very bright. His chore is cleaning the kid's bathrooms and it took him 2 years to learn that his chore was easier when he pee'd in the toilet instead of on the floor.Speaking of unteachable, I was recently reminded of what happened when the kids first came. The RAD kid got to try the cow racing game on the Wii. He was used to regular controllers on video games. Being unteachable, we couldn't get him to hold the controller sideways and use it like a steering wheel, no matter how much we told him or showed him. Its still funny, thinking back.I don't think we had any big surprises in terms of their skills. We knew ahead of time that they were way behind in some areas. We had to do a lot of teaching and adapting. It has been surprising at times, seeing what they don't know.Off the top of my head, here are a few ways we have adapted:On account of our RAD kid, the bathrooms that the kids use are empty except for solid bar soap. The healthy kids use the bathroom dorm style. They keep their shampoo in their room and bring it to the bathroom with them. The RAD kid gets a squirt of shampoo in a medicine cup.When we need to tell the kids something important we say it three times using different words each time, trying to pick the simplest words we can think of. There are vocabulary issues and it can be surprising what they don't know.The pantry door has a lock. We have an alarm that only rings in our room so when the RADlet went prowling at 2 AM on his very first night, he didn't know he was caught. I stealthily followed him downstairs and watched his excitement instantly deflate when he discovered the locked door. His expressions were priceless, both for that and when he finally saw me watching him. "I was just going to the bathroom". "Sure, buster, you just came downstairs to pee in the fridge. Get back to bed."

omg...i forgot about that one! we literally had to get on the floor and show them how to play. not play with them, but actually model it!

bathing wiping play songs games social norms- how to eat items like a sandwich- R lways ate them from the front- not the top or side she just attacked the middle of the bread. she'd eaten 2 free meals a day at school (where no one guided her) and chicken nuggets or mac & cheese pretty much for 4 yrs. she couldn't identify any food either. the names of pretty much everything- from cup/glass to christmas stocking to napkin. One good way to think of it is to assume no previous experience and let your self be pleasntly surpised when they do know something.

oh, wow. so interesting. I wonder, how do you walk the line between addressing the various I guess developmental delays you could call them (?) without overstepping what may or may not be considered appropriate for the chronological age of the child? Like with the bathing and wiping, I've read others have concerns about too much assistance being taken the wrong way, to the point of being called in to CPS, and we're quite sensitive to that right now. Are any of these things that the children's CWs discussed with you at any point?

try to give them tools such as the wearing of swim suits. each dont touch, use dolls as examples, lots of discussion, and an compassionate approach. They def. are developmental delays. as you find the "pot holes" of knowledge- you address them, and if this is a pre-adoptive placement- I'd just do it. You don't have to discuss potentially embarrassing or questionable things with many others- most won't get it. Find some who do (we do!) and use them as a reslurce. Other adoptive parents. I'd also ask the cw up front, and/or the foster parents what skills the child cant do. The foster mom knew R had trouble wiping (not that she was doing anything to help), the CW did NOT know that R's ears were pierced. KWIM?

no one ever ended with a "be careful not to overstep any boundaries." i think bc honestly we were already aware of them. the bottom line (no pun intended) is that some of these kids don't know HOW to wipe or bathe. and they have to be taught. i'd wipe my 4 year old's butt if they needed help, well....my 8 year old really was more like 4 in this area. now...i never wiped her butt for her...mostly bc the thought of that grossed me out. but i would stand outside the bathroom door and remind her to wipe like we talked about until there was no more poop on the toilet paper. with the bathing...they wore bathing suits for "lessons." i never washed their body other than their face or hair....just offerred directions. and then as i left i would tell them, "ok, i am leaving now so you can finish up, you need to take off your bathing suit and finishing washing in the area where your bathing suit is, and then get out and dry off like we practiced." I'd stand outside the door and ask how they were doing and reminded them I was right there. I honestly only had to do that for a few months until they got better. when they relapsed and they were not washing well again we could tell because their hair was disgusting. then we just took to washing it for them in the sink and pointing out how to tell when your hair is clean.

How does attachment parenting factor into this, anyone got an idea?

My dd was almost 4 when she came home, so I had to wipe her and bathe her. And at age 9, she still needed me to wash her hair. So I turned it around and if there was soap in her hair still when I checked it, I'd say "I win" and I'd rinse it out. If there wasn't I'd say "You win!" and tell her it was time to get out. I rarely check anymore.After baths, I do the whole grooming routine myself as attachment. I clean her ears, apply lotion (baby lotion at first, as it triggered parental feelings for ME), and I comb her hair, add detangler serum, and blow dry it. While doing this, I used to talk about if you were a baby I'd also______. It helped that I have a jacuzzi tub to use when she was 5-6. Because I'd add a bit of soap, turn it on, and walk away. Whether she scrubbed or not, she got clean! My Dh and I called it turning on the "kid-agitate-cycle" as it did the job without any extra assistance from her :)In the beginning, she was young enough that it didn't bother her for me to be in there, and I'd explain stuff by telling her to find all her "cracks" and wash them. That included pits, genitals, behind the ears, between the toes etc...It became a game to see if she could find all her "cracks".At first she did these games to "beat me", now she plays to please me/make me proud.

aspenhall - that's a great idea with the baby lotion, I'm glad you mentioned it! And I also read what you said about telling the child what you'd do if they were a baby as a way to build attachment. So thanks for that reminder as well :) How accurate have the observations been by the foster families or children's home staff regarding these issues and your kids? One of you mentioned the foster mom knew but didn't do anything to help the problem. I just wonder if we'd be alerted to these things or not necessarily. (Probably the latter, eh?)

my kids came from a children's home. we were told they could care for themselves....but they must've had really low standards or not really paid attention. they were visibly dirty. when we took them to a psych that had seen them while they lived in the group home she showed us a report she had written about them and she called them dirty and disheveled! their casa noticed how clean they were suddenly as well. so....the children's home did not really provide accurate info...and they should have bc my kids lived there for years.