How to tell when the other person is "done" ?

Using you? Probably not. Obviously I don't know her. But, you've had decades to deal with emotions after you gave her up for adoption. She hasn't had as much time. It seems only natural that she would be a ball of emotions- excited to meet "birth family," angry at "birth family" for abandoning her, etc. As far as her saying "he can write me a check", I hope she was joking. Maybe she hit it off with the "father" better, or maybe she's a gold digger. You told her you felt 'shut out' after a few short months of her not spending as much time with you as the father. How do you think she's felt for her whole life after you shut her out of your life by giving up her for adoption? I don't think you should have told her you feel shut out after a short while after having met her. She felt 'shut out" of your life for decades, no? It's nice of you that you helped her reconnect with the father. I would tone down the 'emotion sharing' right now and let the relationship develop naturally, even if it's casual trivial conversation. Eventually I would imagine your relationship with her might improve since you supported her meeting the father. Maybe what he said about you made her wonder who to trust (remember, adoptees were 'abandoned' by the very people who brought them into the world... seems natural to question who to trust after that). Maybe she met both of you and was overwhelmed and took out her hostility on you. I would imagine that she would back off for a while after having met you, whether or not she met the "father." I think it's natural in such relationships to meet, have a honeymoon period, then get angry over old wounds, then have some space, then rekindle, etc. I think it's natural for meetings to be somewhat awkward. You don't know one another, but you're "supposed" to. That makes for some awkward interactions. You have a deeper connection, but don't even know one anothers' favorite color or life dream or whatever. It's supposed to be awkward, I would say. I don't think it's fair to her to say she's spending too much time with the "father." She's gone her whole life abandoned by her biological "family." She's likely a bucket of emotions, and you saying you felt shut out perhaps triggered old feelings of abandonment and 'what if.' I'm sure you are too. It's only natural that she's excited. The "he can write me a check" gives me pause. I hope she was joking about that. But, in general, an adoptee shouldn't be put in a "you spend too much time with the birth "mother" or birth "father" position. She's related to him biologically, and shouldn't be made to feel guilty for spending time with him. If she's golddigging him, then that's wrong. But, maybe she's not... and it's up to her which biological "family" she wants to see more often. I can't say if she's golddigging him. But, I would suggest you not rush her or say you feel 'shut out' or that sort of thing after you've only come back into her life after a short while. You've had decades to deal with this after you gave her up-- she hasn't had as much time to deal with the being given up. My advice? Give her space. Like I said, she hasn't had decades to deal with this like you have. She had no choice in the matter of being given up to begin with.

Thanks Feb yes I understand your perspective. I was feeling vulnerable when I said I felt shut out. It was a reaction and I was being honest and yes it did triger something. I have never said she shouldn't spend time with him, it was just the way it was organised in a sneaky way. I guess I felt close to her because we had been writing for over 12 months. I realise now I was too involved so have stepped back. No I don't think she was joking about the cheque.. that stings. But I can see what you mean, there is always that underlying hositility of "well you gave me away" when the angry email arrives and the contact is irractic. Like at Xmas time I could email send a Happy Xmas but she may not email back because I gave her away? There were circumstances beyond my control that she knows about. In the interests of a relationship that she contacted me for - why not just bury the hatchet though?

You say her birthfather is well off. I think the cheque thing is based in anger. What difference does it make if he's well off? Maybe she was reacting to that statement. Being flippant about it. Who cares if he's well off and why is that an issue? He's obviously not been there for her and I wouldn't call that being well off. If he made a pile of dough somewhere along the line good for him. Maybe that's why she made the comment. Does being well off mean to you that he is different than her or you or anyone else? Should she treat him differently or have some different expectations because he's "well off"? If he does write her a cheque because he has money and she needs it what's wrong with that? If you think that money is her motivation and she doesn't see the potential for money in having a relationship with you then ask her? Put it out there. If that's the only reason she searched then you haven't lost anything really. It's her loss. I think you need to be perfectly honest with yourself about what the issues are. Do you feel like having introduced her and assisted her with finding her birth father makes you less relevant? Stop doubting yourself and lay it out to her. If she can't handle it so be it. I would rather have a relationship with my mother than all the tea in China. But I wonder sometimes if she thinks that my motivation is related to trying to weasel my way into some "fortune" she perceives I think exists. That disgusts me. Personally I feel like it's a slap in the face when my mother once said the only inheritance would be the cans in the cupboard. She once showed me all this jewelry my brother gave her and kept looking at me to see my reaction. I don't get it. I didn't search to find a fortune materialistically. If that's what you are afraid of then I don't know if there is any other way to get past that fear than to be frank about it.

Frankly it all makes me wonder if the reason she gave me up is financial. She didn't want to have to be reliant on someone financially and wonder if the only reason they got married is because she was pregnant. They did get married eventually. I don't know but that's her baggage not mine.

Ultrea-- your story sounds like it has been a very up and down experience for you and your daughter. Reunions are frequently very complicated and fraught with many emotions from all sides. No one really knows, until they are in the moment, what emotions the reunion experience will bring to the surface. When I was reuniting with my biological siblings, as well as reintegrating my birthparents into my adult life, I was shocked by how quickly emotions can change on all sides. Emotional highs and feelings of instantaneous connection were followed by a long series of low-spots, in which I had a nervous breakdown/ identity crisis, one of my sisters got hooked on meth (she is now sober), three of my sisters were arrested for DUI's (though thank god no one was injured or killed anyone!). It. gets. ROUGH. And frequently, as the adoptee, when you are feeling super low or hitting a rough spot, you don't want to reach out to other people, or you don't know who to reach out to. You don't want to drag other people down, or 'blame' anybody for the emotional rollercoaster that simply exists in the world of adoption and reunion. I will say, however, that my family did have a monetarily related issue that rocked our reunion experience like a hurricane. We had been in reunion with this sister for about six years. Initially it when swimmingly, we got extremely close extremely fast. Then she moved to another state. she dropped out of college. I would get phone calls at three in the morning from her saying she thought was drugged and raped. Or that she started dating new guy who happened to be a drug dealer. I was worried, obviously, never sure if I should reach out to her adoptive parents, never sure if she was serious about her troubles, b/c when I called to follow up in the light of day, she laughed off her problems. Then she got arrested for a DUI. A few months later she got pregnant, by the drug dealer, who got raided and evicted from their apartment. My sister spent a week in jail while she was six months pregnant b/c the police thought she was an accomplice. After she was released, she started calling everyone on the birth family (there are a lot of us) asking for a co-signer so she could get a new apartment. BUT, she did not mention her and her BF's arrest for drug dealing to our birthparents. She got our birthmom to co-sign for the apartment before I could get in touch with her. Birthmom had no idea about the pending drug trial, or that both sis and her BF had lost their jobs while they were in jail, and she thought that my sister had asked her adoptive parents to co-sign and they had turned her down. But she hadn't. She never asked her adoptive parents. She never told birthmom about the drugs. Birthmom works at Target, making $8/hr. She doesn't have a savings account, doesn't have health insurance, doesn't own anything herself. But she heard that one of her children was being denied help by her a-parents and felt like she had to step in. Out of concern (b/c her adoptive parents are her parents after all), I contacted my sister's adoptive parents, just to check if they knew she was in some trouble (she lived in a different state from them, and sis wasn't giving anyone the same story). Her A-mom told me that yes, they were aware of sis's troubles, but that she had never asked them to co-sign. Come to find out that over the two prior two years sis had received many monetary gifts from our birthparents, (b-dad bought her plane tickets, b-mom sent grocery store giftcards and sometimes checks outright to help cover rent, etc.). Sis had been calling them for years telling them that her A-parents weren't helping her, she was broke, needed $, etc. All the while her birthparents were paying the rent on her apartment. It made me sick. Sis has since broken up with the drug dealer, married a lovely man, moved back to the same town as her A-parents, but we are still mending the relationship. Her willingness to manipulate our birthparents for sums of $ that are inconsequential to her, but enormous to them, was horrifying to me. B/c our birthparents feel so guilty for losing all of us that they really are incapable of saying no when any of us needs anything. Even to their own detriment, they will find a way. So the unspoken rule amongst us siblings is that we never ask them for anything they cannot afford to give. (Perhaps this should have been a spoken rule, though....) It's hard to get over. We're still getting over it. to be honest, I may never have the kind of relationship with that sister that I have with my other sisters. I will never be able to trust her the way I trust the others. and while I am beyond grateful to the benevolent forces of the universe that she didn't die, kill anyone, or suffer any of the darker consequences of her actions, I have hope that someday things might change. Someday sis might have the empathy to apologize to our birthparents for using them exorcise her demons or some anger she may have had toward them. But that moment hasn't come yet. So in summation-- Reunions can get weird. Real weird. Weirder than you thought would be possible. Sometimes you won't have a long-lasting great relationship. It will hurt. It will be disappointing. But it is a long-term journey. Sometimes life-long. It helps to talk. Nobody knows how any of this ends.

Thanks for yr take on the money issue Murphy - on reading yr post I realised that his wealth is an issue for me because the reason he gave for not committing to us as a family was based on his mother saying basically that I was not good enough for them as I was not on the same social scale and his career was his focus so no kids. He has a oppulant life style overseas and as she loves travelling she goes to visit him there. I dont know if he pays for airfares, probably. I am not secure in the relationship with my daughter because she has asked me sneaky questions after she had already asked bfather and I felt there are lots of things she is not telling me about her life. I think she hangs with a tough crowd, and is often involved in conflict and dramas with others so I am wary of getting involved. My issue is that feeling I have of not being told the truth and being disbelieved and cross questioned. She has asked many personal questions which I answered ethically so she also knows how to push my buttons to get a reaction. I don't react except to stand up for myself but it feels like I am being bullied and power played. I am very disapointed to think that but I have looked at it from different perspectives, like she is testing me etc, so I just feel that I can't honestly tell her how I feel about bfather because she will use that information to hurt me further and it has already had a bad effect on me and my relationships - I am not the positive person I was 12 months ago. Thanks Snow White for sharing yr moving story. What stopped you from cuttung contact with yr sis who has used yr family so disrespectfully? You must all be a very forgiving family...bless you. Please all continue to post if you have further insights. Thanks for taking the time so close to Xmas too... xx

Ultrea I hope things work out with your daughter. Just remember to take care of yourself. I know I sound like a broken record, but relationships take two people trying to make it work. It really is that simple. Even with ups and downs, highs and lows there needs to be dedication from both parties. I can't say if there was a miscommunication between both of you, or that your daughter is not committed. Whichever it is, I wish you peace and love in your life, and I hope you are surrounded by people who treat you well.

If people base their relationships on what other people think about the relationship ie his mother thinking you aren't "good" enough or that being in a relationship would cause distraction from his career; I don't believe the person is someone who you would want to be with anyway. True love is a leap of faith. Some people are capable and some are too in love with the security the family money provides. I bet your intuitions are correct in that matter. I wonder about the influence my paternal grandmother may have had on my father's decision to not ask my my mother to marry him after he knew she was pregnant with me. His father had died and he was the only son. My grandmother was pretty demanding and after he died, off her nut a bit so I can see how as a young man he would have been torn. They were at one time better off than most because my grandfather did okay financially. My mother's family on the other hand was larger and her father had died a long time before she became pregnant so they had to scrimp and get along. Having said all that it dawned on me that my mother likely felt more shame or fear because she knew what it was like to have financial worry. Keeping me would have been a burden she probably couldn't imagine herself dealing with along with knowing my father might have married her only because she was pregnant. That worry must have kept a lot of women away from the situation. They didn't want the stigma flapping old jaws would describe as a "shotgun wedding". I don't blame you for being cautious or hurt at all. If your daughter is currently in awe of the financial end of things....let her stew in her own juices for awhile. In the end money might not be as important as genuine caring. People who take advantage of other people simply because they are looking to gain financially might find out they are left with nothing in the end. People don't get rich by giving it away. My adopted mother used to say that. But she eventually hung her hat on the security of a dollar because she just grew tired of the grind. She made some pretty poor choices that taught me that it's best to be independent and there is a whole lot more to life than making a buck. Sometimes I wish I were superficial and could chase the dollar. When I left home at 18 to get the most distance I could from the predator she lived with; in her denial she offered to pay my way through school as far as I wanted to go if I didn't marry the guy I married to get out of the house. But I couldn't deal with the sleazy predator any more. I felt like I was in prison keeping one step ahead of the creep for almost 7 years. The concept of freedom from that made my choice easy. When it was time to break away from that marriage I picked up and left with a suitcase. It lasted 6 years and thankfully we had no children. Sorry to go off the topic but it's relevant I think. To me being true to myself and finding safety without the influence of people I couldn't trust was worth having to make it on my own financially. I have had my struggles but I don't have to pander to creeps either. I hope your daughter finds out for herself what's more valuable. Merry Christmas.

Snow white your story about your sister and your insight into things gives me faith in humanity. You are so dead on. People who act out testing and manipulating need family to rein them back in. I would be angry as well if I had siblings that were doing that to my parents. Taking advantage of someone's guilt or anguish is unfair. But the fact that your birthmother would help even if in so doing she put herself in jeopardy is touching. God love her for that. It's good that she has you to see through your sister's issues and to help her realize that your sister's needs to stop "acting out" her anger. I hope she continues to work on her problems.

Thanks so much, yes my New Year's resolution is to be positive and surround myself with positive people. Have a lovely Christmas :wings:

[QUOTE=murphymalone]If people base their relationships on what other people think about the relationship ie his mother thinking you aren't "good" enough or that being in a relationship would cause distraction from his career; I don't believe the person is someone who you would want to be with anyway. True love is a leap of faith. Some people are capable and some are too in love with the security the family money provides. I bet your intuitions are correct in that matter. OMG! exactly, thanks Murphy.. yes I made a leap of faith in our love but he couldn't follow me. Bdad was striving to be the favourite son (middle) his older bro had a family, younger was just getting started and his mother asked him to pay for a holiday for her because at a fancy resort because she was thinking of leaving his step-dad at the time (he bought her a new car). This woman's first husband (bdad's father) was murdered over money he owed. She ended up marrying step-father for security and a new life in another country so her view was warped through her own physche. I was just a young naive girl in love. He had been talking about marriage in the future before I became pregnant but no way was I trying to trap him. I think his mother didn't want a people talking about shot gun weddings because it would have harmed their social standing... she had probable been thru that before after the murder! that just dawned on me from your words! They sold up and moved away about 12 months later. My family situation was negitive too. Latently hostile stepfather who has always been jealous of me - my mum suggested adoption as I couldn't come home. I just wanted my daughter to have a loving family and not grow up thinking she was not wanted. I am so sorry you were forced out of yr home in such a horrible way! Why do these women put up with these men I will never understand!! Bdad's money will come with strings attached and as she is a rebel free spirit there will be problems for sure. Last time I saw her I said I was proud of what I have accomplished in my life independently - I have never married or lived with someone for financial gain - so I guess I have to thank that experience for that! I also said to her that I won't be judged, blamed, put-down or walked over now by anyone. Well done to you.. another independant person! Happy Christmas and light on your journey in 2013!

To answer your question-- we did cut contact for awhile. I didn't talk to my sister for two years, actually. when I heard that she was getting married for the second time, I sent her a congratulations card, and then we slowly started resuming communication. We mostly text and facebook now, very casually. I haven't had a full-fledged conversation with her since the co-signing incident. I suppose it was easier to re-connect b/c she did not break the lease and actually put birthmom on the hook for the apartment. But in the days while the whole lying/manipulating fiasco was going on I got really angry. I emailed sis (b/c we lived in different time zones and worked strange hours), saying that I was really disappointed that she would have put birthmom in that position. She emailed back that if I couldn't just support her then she didn't want to hear from me. So I stopped contacting her. I even de-friended her on facebook, which was absolutely petty, but I was angry. and I was in my twenties. It was the most passive-aggressive thing I could think of. I gathered the facts about sis's situation, court dates/ charges, etc. and filled in the other siblings with the full story, so that if sis lied to them or tried to ask them for money, they could hold her accountable. Weeeelllll..... When she called our brother (to ask for $, and to gripe about what a horrible person I was) he told her that he knew she wasn't being 100% honest with him. And then I got a super crappy email from my sister's A-mom. Saying that I was a horrible person and that if I am what a sister is, then she's glad she doesn't have any... It was bad. Bad, bad, bad. There was another piece to the whole conflict though, a deeper more subtle piece.... I know that birthmom felt that helping sis would translate into a closer relationship between the two of them. That when sis had the baby, maybe birthmom could come visit, or be there for the delivery. And I also knew that sis had no intention of seeing any of those things happen. Sis's A-mom actually made her swear that our birthmom wouldn't be there for the delivery. So I wasn't surprised by her A-mom's nasty missive to me, calling me horrible names and defending my sister's actions. But, truthfully, I get why she did it; she was protecting her daughter. At the end of the day I am glad that sis has a strong connection with her A-mom. Currently, our brother is the only family member that talks to Sis with any regularity. The rest of us have downshifted into passive updates on her facebook feed. Sis was invited to the last three family events (three of our siblings got married in the last year) and she did not attend any of them. She was invited to participate in our gift exchange for christmas and she declined as well. It might be fair to say she is 'done' with us, actually. but maybe that's ok. She has a very full life, and so do the rest of us. We had about ten years in reunion with her that were great, and then the last five have been radio silence. I never could have predicted that it would have happened that way. But what I said to my sister, before she told me not to contact her again, is that people who love us are honest with us. People who love us don't tell us what we want to hear all the time. I still believe that.

When she is ready to be authentic and stop the games; you may be the first person she seeks out. If not at least you know where you stand. Some people are addicted to chaos. It seems they need to embroil themselves in some dilemma because they don't feel worthy of attention unless there is crisis.

So true. Good reminder.

Have yourself a merry little Christmas. Know that there are many people who are struggling as well. Let hope that we can all find some peace in the New Year.