TPR: do we have a say?

I found during our case (niece whom we adopted) was to get information from her CASA (you may have a casa or a gal). They have the court documents and could possibly forward you the ones you would need. Ours was great! We are after 5 yrs later still friends and keep in touch. Do you have contact with the CASA or GAL on the case? We also were across country (ID and FL) and our trips were 5 hr plane rides. They would not place her with us until they were 100% sure of TPR going thru. I'm thinking that would be your case? Why did they move the child to you if visits can't be done and then change to RU? I'd keep in touch with the SW about that issue. Our ICPC took 11 months to complete. It was terrible but it all worked out eventually. You have to keep on these SW's like glue. It's awful. It's like they think your a relative and won't make waves or something.

They had intended to place him with us 3 mos prior to when we got him (after his school year ended) because the relative placements available in the home state were not really good situations but ICPC dragged on and on...the state has aggressively been pursuing TPR since February but the courts obviously can do what they want. In the time since the original decision to place him with us, the parents have (somewhat involuntarily) been getting their acts together, but are still a long way off from regaining custody (no jobs, residences, etc... yet). The CW will not say anything about the progress of the case except that the next court date is in Dec. I think they were planning for termination when they decided to send him to us, but that may have changed. We have just like I said had so much trouble getting anything out of the case workers up there, especially as we were progressing through the ICPC process. As far as I know, there is no GAL and I'm not sure what a CASA is. I believe the child (and each of the parents) have court-appointed lawyers, but I do not have contact information for any of them, and the grandmother said her interaction with the child's lawyer was not productive and he wasn't really doing anything. I guess I will just try to get some more official information out of the CW after the December trial.

The laws are different in each state I imagine, but here in Florida I was told countless times by the caseworkers NOT to attend hearings for the parents. Then one day I found a website about relative adoptions, tpr and such and learned that I SHOULD HAVE been attending all of those hearings! Boy was I angry! After that I informed the cw that I would be at all hearings and was to be notified in advance of anything to do with the children. After all, I was their caretaker! The day we went to court to set the trial date for TPR the parents came in with paperwork signed and notarized giving up their rights voluntarily. They didn't want to pay support or go through the trouble of a trial. I think they also believed that I would give them more liberal visitation if there was not caseworker involved. I never told them that, but my son made a remark to that effect once and I didn't respond.

ICPC does take forever. In our case, I would not have been allowed to attend TPR trial, except DD's BM's lawyer subpoened me (tried to prove i was unacceptable as an AM, so they could extend the case) The boundaries get really blurred when we're talking about kinship placement, which makes it hard to get through the system some times The TPR is a closed trial to determine if all attempts to allow the BP to parents have been exhausted. This is a list of concerns, actions taken by the state, actions taken (or not) by the BPs. While some courts allow testimony to show that the child is doing well in their new home, its typically irrelevant to TPR. Why? Because the trial is all about the parent - not the kid. Did the parent fail to do what they needed to do in order to get their kid back So, if.. as the kiddo's caregiver, our input into their well being is tangential.. the only information we have as a relative (they're still using.. they fail to treat the kid's well, the neglect them).. those things are considered hearsay. Our CASA told us that our experiences are "things to be investigated" not facts. That's because so many dysfunctional families will lie to hurt family members.. or if not lie, are clouded by our history with the individual. All that can be testified in a TPR trial are investigated substantiations. That means, anything we could bear witness to can't be testified to without an investigation. In my experience, courts prefer hearing from the investigators instead of kin (afraid of a Jerry Springer moment?) You're getting really close. I know its such as stressful time. Hang in there! its almost over *hugs*

[QUOTE=willow2018] Then one day I found a website about relative adoptions, tpr and such and learned that I SHOULD HAVE been attending all of those hearings! QUOTE] Hey Willow - do you remember the website?

Thank you so much for all the helpful answers!!! We actually ended up receiving an official notice of the hearing and that we could attend. I didn't really want us to testify or have a say (though it was a good reminder that the TPR is about the parents and not the kid), I just want to be kept abreast of the permanency of his placement with us both for our planning purposes and to be as honest with him as we can about his future. Unfortunately I don't think I can attend since I have to be out of town for work that day so I can't fly to the hearing. I have asked my boyfriend's mother (maternal grandmother) to attend on our place, so I guess if the judge says something definitive, she can tell us. Last time, when I think it was just continued with no action she didn't really understand what was going on and gave us wrong information. Perhaps because my boyfriend has custody and was informed of the trial, they will be required to send us the documentation that comes out of it? Thanks again for all the helpful info!

Quick update for everybody on our nephew: The continuation hearing from the original TPR was two days ago. We were notified it would start at 9 am (we live in a different state and were unable to attend, so we got a play by play from grandmother while it was all going down). Apparently the day's custody hearings started at 9, and once all parties arrive, you pick a number (like a deli) and they hear your case. So there was a lot of waiting-from 9 am until about 1pm for lawyers/caseworkers/parents to show up. During this time, both birthparents' lawyers were trying to convince them that they should agree to an open adoption. Both birthparents' lawyers were stressing to them that if they went to trial, they would lose for sure. Bmom agreed relatively early to do what is best for son and voluntarily terminate rights. It took Bdad awhile longer, but I guess after the lawyers harped on him, he agreed too. A few hours later, they all went in front of the judge and signed away rights voluntarily for an open adoption with 2 visits per year (none of these terms were run through with us). The next day, CW e-mailed us with the news that they terminated rights and said she would send us the agreement they signed. CW says that after child has been a resident in our state for 6 months (February) the adoption process can begin. I know it isn't over and we're still in a state of limbo, but I feel like at least some of the uncertainty is lifted. I am shocked that bparents' lawyers were so strongly trying to persuade them to give up rights. I am shocked that bparents actually gave up rights with an hour of convincing after 16 months of adamantly refusing. I am surprised that they can sign a TPR with an open adoption clause that the adoptive parents didn't have to agree to. What if adoptive parents didn't want an open adoption? Does it negate the TPR?

We never did an OA agreement. I wanted control over visits and phone calls and if biomom went off the wagon I could stop them. I just didn't want to be bound to something like that. I would think they could sign up for the OA agreement and just not do it, correct?

I wouldn't think it would negate the TPR, but the state might say that if you are not willing to agree to the OA terms that you cannot adopt, and seek an alternative placement. If you do agree to the terms, you really need to make sure you are willing to follow through. Whether or not the OA is legally enforceable, you do have a moral obligation to not agree to something you don't intend to honor just to make the adoption go through (not saying I think you plan to or would do that).

You do not have to allow the 2 visits per year to be unsupervised and generally the bios would have to travel to you for the visits not you pay the expense to travel to them. You will have control of the visits.

Realistically, it isn't an issue since we are family, frankly it would be nearly impossible to completely withhold visits because they are generally at family holiday events/etc... Initially there was discussion of terms like that they would pay for travel to our state for visits, but we honestly prefer them not to come here, since foster son/nephew will be going back to home state at least 2x per year to see family anyway. We definitely plan to closely monitor visits, and we'll just have to see what the official wording of the open adoption agreement actually is when we get it. Like I said, I was just surprised they didn't look for our agreement, but I think they know they can just force us to agree to anything, since we are the only relative home willing to adopt him.

You should speak with the CW involved to get the details Questions to ask: 1) does the start (the one where the TPR occurred) have legally binding OA? 2) Were the details of the OA already defined? Or is there only intent to mediate an OA? 3) can the TPR be revoked should the OA details not get worked out? It sounds like an intent to OA, which is not a bad thing. The OA will spell out what they need to do in order to have contact. Believe me, you want those details spelled out. Things like, not showing up impaired.. not showing up unannounced.. Not bringing upapproved visitors.. not calling unless specifically approved. no unsupervised.. how often - and where will the visits be. Who bears the costs of the visits? if there are no details, i think you'll find its new impossible NOT to have an OA when the child is kin. You share the same family, after all.

Just thought some people might be curious...we got the OA agreement the parents signed when the signed the voluntary TPR contingent on the OA. I believe they signed a boilerplate OA from the sending state. Here were the terms: 1.) 2 supervised visits of at least 2 hours per year in their state, visits must occur in July and December, but are scheduled by us. If either parent fails to participate in any visit, OA agreement is terminated with that parent. 2.) no attendees may come to visits unless approved by us (except family). If an unauthorized attendee arrives, OA is terminated. 3.) if visits with parents cause undue stress or anxiety to the child we can modify visitation to suit child's best interest. 4.) if parents appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, visit terminates immediately and OA agreement is terminated 5.) if parents are incarcerated at the time of a visit, visit is cancelled and agreement is terminated with that parent 6.) if parents are hospitalized at the time of a visit, visit is cancelled and we should make a reasonable effort to reschedule if parent provides proof of hospitalization. 7.) Parents may send letters, pictures, and/or gifts to the child for birthdays and Christmas. Since the parents already signed this and we have to agree as a condition of the TPR, we won't be able to change any of the terms, I just thought others might find it interesting to know what the "standard" agreement is in one state. Along with the OA agreement, we got the full file on our nephew from the state (we did not get this info when we took custody), and I learned that CPS was called when our nephew was 1 year old and involved during a domestic dispute when he was 2 years old, prior to this, we only thought CPS was called when he was actually removed (at his 4th birthday). It makes me so frustrated to know that CPS was called and did not take action twice before he was removed and some of those years of neglect and instability could have been avoided. :mad: The case file also had detailed info on his adjustment to his prior homes and a pretty accurate prediction of what we experienced his first few months here (tantrums, etc...) which would have been *GREAT* to know during those first few weeks when I thought we were all going to kill eachother!!!!!

Is your adoption final now???/ sure hope sooooo