Ban - navet

Who are all these brand new forum members posting controversial messages?

Thank you God. I have been waiting for someone, anyone on this board that sees things as I do. I appreciate your honesty and willingness to say it. I wouldn't trade my son for anything, I love him with everything I have, having said that, the adoption process is ugly and underhanded. It's necessary evil though. Most would rather bury their heads in the sand and ignore the massive amounts of cash changing hands and the hush hush way it is done. It reeks of corruption, but like I said, it is necessary evil. Without it these kids have no chance, and my son isn't asleep in his bed tonight. I will teach my son that he is an American. He was born in Russia, but he is an American.

Incognito - If you make one more comment bashing the members here (name calling), your account will be banned. (I've edited your post to remove the remarks) Your opinion may be different from the majority, and that's perfectly fine, but perhaps what you need to realize it maybe it's not your opinion people react to but rather your tone.As far as your post goes, basically what you are saying is people don't have a right to be upset because the process in Russia is so corrupt? A process which apparently you likely willingly not only supported but actively participated in. Not sure that's something to carry a high and mighty tone about, just saying.

I would like to think I post only when I have something meaningful to contribute. Far more people who view these forums (and internet forums in general) than actually post for fear of being bashed or just intimidated. I agree with Icognito's statement that the corruption is just a necessary (evil) part of the process. It sounds like his tone is anything but high and mighty. I participated in it too, but I didn't really understand how bad it was until we were well into it and I got some information from insiders. Russia is a tough place to live, people do what they have to to get by. The point is that the process isn't what most people think it is, or want to admit. I'm not sure that we would have acted any differently had we known beforehand either, but then I buy coats with real fur on them and drive an SUV. As long as you believe the end justifies the means, then you're covered.

Anyone pursuing international adoptions needs to do RESEARCH. You will know what you a getting into. Research the agency, research the country of choice. Talk to anybody who has taken the steps before you. Most parents are willing to tell their story. Read the country info you receive from your agency, the agency is the most updated at what is going on. Read history of the chosen country, this gives you insight to attitudes of the people and their government. What some people would call corruptions others call it the cost of having work expedited. Yes adoption is a business. I wanted everyone at the agency to make good salaries so they are happy to come to work and give me all the assistance I needed to get my babies home. I also didnot buy babies, I brought MY babies home. I paid people to get my babies paperwork done in a timely manner, I paid for someone to MAKE SURE that paperwork was being done properly, I paid for a translator to go to offices with me, I paid the orphanage director money (which we used to purchase medicine for the orphanage), I paid for airline tickets, I paid to LIVE with a host family (who cooked for us), I paid for a driver to take us ANYWHERE we needed or wanted to go, you get my drift. I paid for services. No one here in the states offered any of their services for free, post office, notory, appostiles, gas running to all these places, doctor visits, photocopies. Don't let people tell you you bought your children. You paid for all the services necessary to get you children home.

Crick, I have been a member of this board for approx. a year. In that time, I have responded to TWO posts in a way that might ruffle some feathers. TWO. For those two responses, I am now being threatened with a ban. Of those two responses, I can see where only ONE might be offensive. That post was on this thread. The other post was in response to someone whining that they might never feel safe taking their child back to Russia due to this adoption ban. My point over there was that there are others who have met their children and will now not be able to bring them home due to the ban, this is hardly the time to be crying about not being able to return to Russia. This is the time to grieve with the families that are caught up in the process. That is all I was saying, but for some reason I was painted as a bad guy for expressing that. I would also like to know how you can pinpoint my tone considering I am typing this and not speaking it to you. I will be waiting on your response. Anyhow, on to this post. I never said that I agree with everything the other gentelmen was saying. I simply said that I found it refreshing that someone who has an alternative opinion expressed it. This board gets rather drab with the same people posting the same stuff over and over again. If I read one more thread about how to get your children to eat solid food I am going to throw up. Do I feel that there is corruption in the adoption process? Yes. Did I know that would be the case before I started my adoption? Yes. Do I think that the ban should be implemented due to that corruption? No. Hence why I called it "necessary evil". I appreciate the fact that "mykidsmom" has cleaned it up and called it "the cost of having work expedited", but you can put lipstick on a turd, and it's still a turd. I too paid all of the expenses that you listed, but you left out the nearly $13,000 in cash that changed hands with no receipt. I was not allowed to speak about that cash at any time, especially in court. Did you not experience the same thing? Was I bamboozled? I could tell you several stories of shadyness associated with my process, but I don't want to risk getting anyone in trouble. These boards can be accesed from all over the world, and there is no need to risk the wrong eyes seeing this. Just know that I saw enough to be completley aware of what was going on. Did it appaul me, no. I expected it. Did I take the moral high road and refuse to be a part of it? No. I knew that we just had to work the process, as is, in order to assure that my son got to come home with me. Did I come home and act like it never happened and post on message boards about how much I loved Russia and how beautiful the adoption process was? No. Anyone I've talked to, I have mentioned the shady stuff, I have said that it was uncomfortable, but necessary, then I have told them that I wouldn't change any of it for anything. It was the best decision Ive ever made. If those opinions make me a bad guy, then so be it. Maybe I can smooth it over by posting someof these dancing banannas, :banana: or this hippy smiley. :hippie: That ought to help me fit in a little better.

With our agency we had to bring several thousand dollars' cash with us (on person) to Russia. It wasn't 13K but it was several grand. I don't remember anymore. I just remember trying to look inconspicuous at the airport and not talking so that others would think we were native Russians and wouldn't suspect we had that much money on us. It made me uncomfortable. I am assuming each agency has different procedures as how to pay fees. At that time at least, our agency had us bring cash (we had to get crisp dollar bills) with us in person. Amy K, NJ

$13,000? wow, sir, the only in country costs I had to pay was a $200 medical appointment that seemed unnecessary...I'm afraid perhaps you may have been a bit bamboozled. all countries aren't the same, and all situations aren't the same. Peoples' interests vary and therefore financial motivations may or may not exist. But to say "all international adoptions" are guaranteed baby purchasing, then why in the world would so many people (including those in this thread who have such a pessimistic outlook on international adoption) eagerly and knowingly engage in human trafficking? To live in a country besides America is not a guarantee of a "horrible life" regardless of what situation you start out in....saying that is so blatantly nationalistic, elitist, and insulting to the global society. If one adopts internationally and thinks like that, then I worry for the child's pride and self identity. I know I was responding to more than one person on this post, apologies for that.

$13,000 or $200? Does it really make a difference? Previous poster mentioned doing a research. I have been reading posts on this forum, hoping to learn about the process. Based on what I've read, I can honestly say that, even if the ban wasn't in place, I will not be adopting from Russia. I grew up in a former socialist country and am well aware of corruption and illegal practices in each and every aspect of our lives.Reading this forum made me see red flags all over the place. I'm extending my thanks to those of you who posted your experiences in Russia and here, US. You helped me see what the process was like and made me realize that I didn't want to a part of it. We all make decisions we can live with. What's ethical for one person might not be for someone else.

We paid quite a bit too...and I'm pretty sure there were a lot of backs being scratched in the process as well. Truth be told...I think it's that way anywhere. I have a friend adopting here in the US & her expenses will be close to ours by the time it's all said & done. We ultimately choose Russia because we wanted a quick adoption & we did not want an infant. You can look at it any way you want...but the bottom line is there are thousands of children who need homes in Russia. Just because the process may be tainted does not mean the children should be left in orphanges! me_her... I am one of the posters who said the children are being used as pawns in a political power game. not sure why that comment would make you "cringe" or where you get a "sanctimonious overtone" from it because it is simply the truth. It is quite clear the majority of Russia's law makers could care less about the well-being of the children w/this "ban". The fact it is only on Americans makes it obvious it is in retaliation to the Magnitsky bill. Perhaps since you find so much of the "dialogue surrounding this issue a little silly and naive" you should stop reading or at the very least, stop reading into them!

The Russian lawmakers know that many Americans want to adopt Russian children. They don't like an American law (or the conduct of a minority of American adoptive families). A ban is the way to make a point to Americans about the Russian perspective on the American law they don't like. They do this by putting a law between adoptive parents and the children they seek to adopt. They can control the children, not American lawmakers. Therefore, the children ARE being used as pawns. I agree with other posters that I do not understand how that conclusion made the OP feel posters were naive. Nor do I understand how someone can claim that tone cannot be "read". If tone and emotion could not be read in the typed word then the entire literary world would sink from disinterest.Finally, my problem with all of this is that anyone who thinks a system is a corrupt, child trafficking industry could under any logic willingly participate. Basically, I understand that you are trying to say your logic was, "I think this is child trafficking but I want a kid so bad, I don't care if I have to break international law and conscience to do it." Will you tell your child later, I participated in child trafficking to "buy" your adoption? Or are you also willing to lie to your child about your own thoughts on the process?We adopted domestically and internationally. No. 1 was an infant from DHS--the social workers were paid a salary, the NICU our son was abandoned in was paid for his care. Do we expect people to work for free? How are children to be fed? How are social workers to live if they do not receive a salary so they can spend the majority of their waking day working with children? Or do you expect only independently wealthy people to work full time as social workers for free?No. 2 was an infant from domestic private adoption. Our fees were half of that for an international adoption but we paid an application fee so the social workers could spend time reviewing it to make sure we met minimum qualifications for adopting under the laws of our state, we paid for our homestudy, for the social worker visits, for pre-and post-counseling for the adoptive mother and if she had needed it we would have paid her medical costs. And she was free to change her mind at any time and we would be out that money. Because it was spent on needs and salaries.No. 3 was from Poland. We brought no cash, except for our own food, entertainment and lodging. There were no under the table fees paid. There is no way we would participate in any corruption. We would never commit perjury by omission in court. We would have adopted elsewhere as we have in the past. Frankly, we feel that strongly that "human trafficking" is an evil. NOT a "necessary evil".

This negative, antagonist type of talk is so sad and counterproductive at this time. Do you honestly think international adoption is the only place money changes hands? And it is incorrect to assume all of us who have adopted do it only to "inhance our families", that really does sound like a purchase. In our case, we wanted another child AND we wanted to make our own small difference in the world by giving someone who had nobody a family. Also, we are bringing home children who have been living in substandard existences to say the least. They have many issues and feeding is one of the biggies. Thank goodness there are places where people can go for help. If reading about stuff makes you "sick" then don't log in and read it. And you agreed in court that your child is american AND Russian, and it is up to your child to make those decisions when he/she is 18.