Panama adoption

Hi Jen, My DH and I are working with commonwealth and they are very nice. They are really busy so sometimes the call won't come until the next day. I was a little disappointed in them at one point because of this, but after reading this board and really getting to understand the process I am no longer disappointed in them, this is a long road. Panama is new to the adoption world, at least this was my understanding from CAII. The first family is still over there so there really isn't an exact time frame they can give you. There is a world of unknowns in adoption, but the end result is a baby and that is all that matters. When we decided to adopt I was so excited it was such an answer to our prayers. Once we found out about the paper work we just wanted to hurry hurry and get it done to start the referral process. Being timly with paper work is good being obsessed with getting it done ASAP is not, because there is so much you can't control. You really have to trust the agency and the sw that does your homestudy, INS is INS thats all I can say about that, but we do trust commonwealth and our homestudy agency:) Once I relized that I can't control how fast we get a baby and started looking at the paper work as one day at a time I really relaxed and that helped. Sorry to ramble:) To answer some of your questions, would I suggest commonwealth for adoption, yes I would, they are very nice people. Time frame, they told us it is a little up in the air, they will know more as more as the process gets going more. I have talked with other agencies and adopting parents and the time frame is usually up in the air, what that sheet says the time frame is, is really an average or estimate not an exact. Now have I stopped trying to find someone to give me an exact time fram, no, I still want to know that:) The age of the child I am also unsure of I do think if you want an infant that is what they will try and find you. I know if you adopt through Columbia you can also get an infant, commonwealth has a very strong Columbian adoption program. I have heard on this board that Panama is a very nice country and safe, which is nice if you have to be there for awhile. Good luck and I know I didn't have any reall good answers, but we are in the middle of all our paperwork so still alot of unknowns, but we do know we will have a baby and that is way more than any dr. has ever done for us:) Take care Tanya

Jenrose & TanyaB, Just a clarification: Commonwealth is new to adoption in Panama, but Panama has allowed adoption to foreigners since foreigners have lived in Panama (probably dating back to the building of the Panama Canal). I know of several military families who adopted without the help of an agency back in 1999, just before the U.S. military pulled out of Panama. That country never required (or even allowed, I don't think) an adoption agency to help families. Now, however, based on relationships that Commonwealth officials have built with judges and ministries in Panama, they will allow Commonwealth to represent families, but they will still have to work with a Panamanian attorney (Commonwealth has attorney contacts) to submit the petition ("demanda") to adopt. So if Commonwealth can't give specific answers for the ages (no younger than 6 months, because to be legally free, the children cannot have had any family contact for 6 consecutive months) or the length of time from petition to referral (through Commonwealth, it's probably around 4 months, provided the gender and age of children requested are available), it is only because they (Commonwealth) have not completed many (if any) adoptions in Panama, NOT because Panama is new to adoption. Of course, the more families who hear of Panamanian adoptions and who work with Commonwealth, the faster and more certain the process should become! Good luck!!!

Jen, We are also adopting from Panama through Commonwealth. We have been extremely happy with the agency. We inquired about adopting from Panama just before the P government gave them permission to assist Americans who wanted to adopted P children. We submitted our application to them in Nov. but did not get our homestudy started in our state (we live in AL) until Jan. Then we procrastinated and didnt get all of the tax info in until April. We finally got all of our referalls in last week and our SW contacted us on Sunday and told us we could get our meetings done this week and have our HS done by next week!!!! Now things seem to be rolling very fast. We will next have to wait for the INS but hopefully that will not be too long. Commonwealth has been extremely supportive and helpful. Our SW with CAII seems to have our best interest in mind. She wants us to have our children as soon as possible. She is waiting on our HS to get us a referral. I get the impression that will not take too long. My advice is to get your paperwork done as soon as possible. Don't drag your feet like we did. Stay in contact with CAII and let them know how you are doing. There are alot of unknowns about Panamian adoptions through CAII. There has only been one couple that is in Panama finishing up their adoption. From what I understand, they were finished with all of their paperwork in November and traveled in April/May. I am not sure that this is typical. I get the impression that it could go faster now that they have gotten it started. Our SW tells me we will know much more when the couple gets back. I sure hope it is soon. Keep in touch. If we are lucky maybe several of us will be traveling at the same time!!!!!! Cheryl mail.mccoy@knology.net

reb621, Thank your for the clarification. I hope I didn't offend you by what I said in my post. I did not know that Panama had adoptions privatly with Americans, I guess I was speaking more that I believed Commonwealth to be the only agency working in Panama, now I may be wrong about that, but to my knowledge from what I have been told that is the case. I also hope it did not look as if I was saying not to work with commonwealth or Panama. I was just posting that I would go with commonwealth they're an excellent agency, I was also posting some mistakes I made trying to stop others from doing the same. Just expressing alot of feelings nonnegative just thoughts. Again I hope that it was not misinterpreted. It is really hard to interpret what people are truly trying to say through a computer. How far are you in the adoption process? We are in the middle I guess, but it is getting done-yeh:) Again I hope I didn't come across negative. TanyaB

Has anyone checked airfare or hotel costs in Panama, just wondering. I have not yet looked into it, but I thought some of you more familiar with the country might have an idea. Tanya

Tanya, Reb and Cheryl Thank you all for replying to my post, it is so nice to hear from all of you, it is nice to know I have some "company";) I agree that commonwealth seems to be a wonderfull agency, I do think they are the agency that my husbund and I will use:) From how it sounds we are all "pioneers" in this, well thats ok with me, maybe by all "networking" together we can help eachother along!!:D I am going to contact the agency today about a few things and then talk to DH (he is still being cautious) then hopefully I will "start the paperwork trail" soon:) Do any of you know where to get tax information? I have been to the IRS wed site and have a copy of "Tax benefits for adoption" but I really dont understand it very well and how it works, I first thought it worked like a "refund" but from how I understand it now it is a "credit" (meaning you may not receive 10.000?) my dh and I will prob have to speak to our accountant concerning it, but any info you all may have is WELCOME:p As far as the question on airfare, I live in California and to airfare for me and dh will be $1041.00 for both of us :D Jen:)

Tanya, Nope, I wasn't offended at all, and didn't mean to sound that way. I just wanted to clarify that the Panamanian gov't is very familiar with adoption by foreigners, so you shouldn't expect any trouble...unlike what is happening in Ukraine right now! Since they (Ukraine, Russia, Romania, etc.) opened adoptions up to the West in the early 90s, they keep revising all of their adoption regulations. What a mess! Thankfully, Panama has been steady with their rules, and not much has changed in the past 10 years or so (except that now it's supposed to be even easier). To all, I'd agree that commonwealth has parent's best interests in mind. They were always very prompt in returning calls to me. Again, it was just their recent fee increase (from $9,500/child to $12,500 for one child, $15,000 for two) that forced us to adopt independently (working directly with a Panamanian attorney). If we could afford it, I would much rather let commonwealth handle the stress that we're having to deal with right now. Although from your posts, it sounds like commonwealth is requiring a lot more paperwork, parenting classes, psych evals, etc. Our attorney told us these are only necessary IF the judge orders them. Maybe commonwealth just wants to get them out of the way so you won't have to worry about them later. Airfare & hotel: From my conversation with a commonwealth rep., I thought the hotel and adoption-related travel are covered in that $12,500 fee. She said the only thing we would have to pay extra would be homestudy (which we already have), airfare to/from Panama, food, souvenirs, and taxi rides when NOT going to court or orphanage. In fact, she said the Panama director (Genvieve?) would meet us at the airport and take us to the hotel/homestay which would already be paid for. She would also have a driver pick us up for adoption-related travel....But re: airfare, Delta flights originate from Atlanta to Panama, and around the $400+ range. We're looking at American Airlines because we can fly from Indianapolis to Miami for $100-183 each, then Miami to Panama City for $380-500 each (depending on when you book. They are currently at the higher end. Argh.) Tax Info: I asked my accountant and other adoptive parents and found out that the credit is applied to your "tax liability." So look at your 2002 tax return. Whatever is shows on line 61 (your "total tax"). This is what you typically owe at tax time due to the deductions and credits you have. Ours this year was $7,306 (low because we had a Mortgage Credit Certificate on our last house & we claimed several charitable donations, etc.) Now since we PAID $7,337, we only got a refund of $31.... What this means is that of the $10,000 per child, we would be able to use a credit of $7,306 (not the whole 10,000, just what you owe in taxes). And since we paid $7,337 in taxes, I think we would get the entire $7,337 back. Yes, this is very confusing! There is an IRS worksheet you can fill out to see exactly how much of the $10,000 credit you can apply toward your taxes. Can't remember the number (8839, 8840???) Sorry this is so long, everyone. But I agree that it's great that we are all going through this process at the same time and can share our experiences, regardless of how we do it (independent or agency). As soon as you hear anything about that first Commonwealth family's return, please post it here for the rest of us to enjoy! :) My husband and I had hoped and planned to travel this summer, and now that we have the court's approval to begin locating the children, we're raring to go! We just have to be patient and wait on our attorney to begin setting up appointments at orphanages for us! Take care, all! Rebecca

Oh, yikes! I just reread my post, and that last part I wrote sounds terrible! It sounds like we plan to "baby shop"!!! That's not what I meant at all. What I mean is that because we are requesting older siblings (up to age 7), once they are referred by the gov't or orphanage personnel, we will obviously want to spend time with them to make sure there is a connection. Afterall, an "older" child can make his or her desires known, and we want to make sure he/she picks US, too! Whew! That's what i meant.

After two high risk pregnancies, my husband and I are looking into International adoption to further extend our family. If I am reading correctly what you wrote, a family like us who "owes" only about 1500-3000 in taxes each year (my husband is military, so much of our income is non-taxed) WOULD NOT get the 10,000 tax credit...our 2 other children's child tax credit will generally bring our tax liabilty to 0? If this is the case, I guess we will be trying for another high risk pregnancy, since there is no way that right now we can afford an adoption. I was under the impression that it worked more like the EIC, where you can receive a refund even if you owe no money to the government. Could someone please tell me if I interpreted this correctly? Thanks!

If you typically DON'T owe ANY taxes (no tax liability), then no, you wouldn't be able to apply the adoption tax credit toward your taxes (because you don't have any taxes). But, remember, you wouldn't even see that money (the tax credit) until the following tax year. Ex: We plan to complete our adoption sometime in August. As long as everything is wrapped up in 2003, we can take the tax credit on our 2003 taxes. But if we ended up spending $10,000 on adoption expenses in 2003 and another $50 in early 2004 (assuming the adoption was finalized in early 2004), then we wouldn't be able to take the credit until 2004 (which is actually April, 2005)!!! Which means we wouldn't get ANY money until June or later of 2005!!! I'm telling you this just so that you understand that you CAN'T rely on this tax credit to pay for your adoption, no matter what some agencies may tell you. You have to find other ways of getting the money up front... However, you can get a loan with the understanding that you will pay if off "early" with your tax refund. (But if you don't owe taxes, you probably wouldn't get a refund either, right?) You can also borrow from your 401K policy (the military probably has a similar retirement plan). You can also borrow from your life insurance policy, I think. We are trying to get a home equity loan (line of credit--also called a "second mortgage"). It's irritating that we'll have to pay 7% interest to finance our adoption, but at least it will keep our monthly payments fairly low (lower than a 12.9% credit card), and we can pay it off when we get our tax refund OR if our families decide to be generous once the children are home. ;) I'll try to find a file I have that has adoption financing resources. Some of the phone numbers might be out-of-date, but you can check their Web sites for more info. (Also, the military is supposed to offer benefits for adoption now!) P.S. The adoption tax credit form # is 968. Check the IRS Web site and print their worksheet. That will show you how much you can claim of this up-to-$10,000 tax credit. P.P.S. Don't give up, Frys! Since we're adopting "independently" (not agency), we'll likely spend up to $8,000 when all is said and done! ($3,000 attorney fee, $560 for INS documentation & FBI fingerprints, $360 for Panamanian authentication stamps, $290 for translation of 29 pages into Spanish (our legal paperwork), $50 or so for getting certified copies of all of our legal documents, $500 for homestudy, $100 for psych evals (this is just a guess), and any travel costs (airfare = up to $800 ea. person for each of two trips; plus food; plus hotel).

Frys, Please e-mail me privately. I might have another $$ option for you. :) reb621@yahoo.com

Just checking in with everyone to see how the adoption process is going. We have our last meeting for our HS on Friday and start our meetings with CAII on Friday, so moving right along:) How is everyone else doing? Anyone hear anything about the family that just went to Panama? Jen, did you decide on Panama adoption? Hope everyone is doing good, TanyaB

KK, Can you please tell me who the three agencies are that work in Panama? Thank you.

thefrys, I found this at worldpartnersadoption.org/faq.html: "...the credit CANNOT reduce your tax below zero. If your tax is not high enough to use the entire credit in the first year (2003 tax return, to be filed in early 2004), the balance of the credit is carried over for up to five years. ...assume income of under $150,000: Example 1: If your federal tax for 2002 is $5,000, you paid in $3,500 in withholdings from your wages, and have $9,000 in qualified adoption expenses (for one child)... your maximum useable credit will be $5,000 for the first year. That makes your TAX for the year ZERO, and you get a refund of $3,500.00 You carry the remaining $4,000 of expenses to your 2004 tax return." So it's NOT just how much tax you owe at the end of the year, but how much you actually paid throughout the year! (See Example 1) And if you can't use the entire $10,000, you can carry it over for the next five years!...So figure out what you PAID in taxes (on your W2) throughout the year, NOT what you will owe come tax time. THAT should be what you get back as a "refund." All: If I'm not getting this right, please jump in and correct me!