New Thread....

LegallyKim, EXACTLY! There isn't a single situation that anyone of us is in that will mirror exactly to another. We all do what we are able to do at that time. We cannot walk around punishing ourselves for any of the decisions that are made, at the time they are made - it is the right answer. I am walking into the role of 'birth mom' very soon. I can honestly say, I don't know what that will mean for me, my current family (I have four children), or the adoptive couple. I know in my heart, without a shadow of doubt, this is best for all of us. I am grateful for openness. It has made me very proud of who I am - as backwards as that can be. But it doesn't mean I know the answers to what the next 10; 20; 30; 50 years will hold. The adoptive couple has included myself, and my entire family into their lives and hearts. I love them dearly too. We have had entire day outings with my four children and their three nieces and nephew. We are all getting together this weekend to throw the mom-to-be a baby shower. I can't wait to meet their extended families and give them the glimpse at this wonderful new life they all already love. We have a photo album of pictures and emails and thoughts, all to document this journey for the child. And I still freeze when I think about what he/she will think of all of this. Will there be pain seeing a huge group of happy faces - knowing from only a few weeks I had no intention of parenting him? We have the most open relationship of anyone I have ever heard of. But I do not want the role of mother. The aparents have been for me, this child's parents from 11 weeks on. I believe whatever needs there are, he already has them fulfilled. To say he will "need" me in his life, I don't believe. Whenever, where ever, we are when we as women are faced with this life choice - there are one of three choices. We can parent, we can abort or we can place our child to be someone else's child. The reality is - each of these choices is final. I sat in the clinic, my husband at my side, debating if the quick way was the answer. There was a window of opportunity to change my mind. As they called my name - I did. Had I not, there is no turning back. You can't undo forever. When we both agreed that this life was meant for someone else, it was just as if my name was called and I had walked through the door. This choice is forever. If contact were to end tomorrow, I still have the peace of heart to know I made the right decision. If there is a knock at the door 30 years from now, I still will hold my head high. If I have the start of a new life long friendship, then I gain too. But until I can find that crystal ball that can show me every detail of every decision I have ever made, I live my life knowing I did my best. And no one can take that away from me.

I have based my beliefs on the 15 plus years i have worked with adopted children and adults. They are the one's who have called it a need. They are the one's who have felt it. It is not me alone saying this. Read the postings from adopted people. They do have a need to know that the parents that gave them birth love them. Look into the eyes of children and adults who do not have that love. I prefer to avoid the pain and hurt. It may help you to believe that you can be replaced. That your child does not need your love. I have looked into one too many aching adoptee's eyes to believe that.

Yes, please do read the postings from "adopted people". Read mine, read dpen6, read debsdone's, read Shoshana's, read Searching_03256. In fact, read the thread Insight for Aparents from an AdopteeӔ. [url]http://forums.adoption.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95993[/url] You will read that not ALL adoptees have this "need". For many of us, our parents were NOT "replacement parents" but very simply our loving parents. I was always aware that I had biological parents but my needs were indeed met by my parents. Do SOME adoptees feel this "need" ? Obviously. I also know a few people that grew up with their biological family but never felt connected to them and do not feel that they were loved. In fact, I was talking to one man recently that was raised with his bioparents and five brothers and sisters and he said there were times in his life that he wondered if he was adopted because he felt so disconnected. (There's no doubt ~ he was NOT adopted.) I volunteer at the Rescue Mission and wish I could avoid the pain and hurt when I look into the eyes of many of the homeless, needy, hungry little children that, while being "loved" by their biological parents, have so many needs unmet. As you said Wingless "There isn't a single situation that anyone of us is in that will mirror exactly to another." I agree with this and object to blanket statements that portray what one adoptee may "need" as being what ALL adoptees "need".

"As you said Wingless "There isn't a single situation that anyone of us is in that will mirror exactly to another." I agree with this and object to blanket statements that portray what one adoptee may "need" as being what ALL adoptees "need"." I agree with wingless and Dlouis. I am not adoptee but I have never had a connection with my mother. While she meet all my physical needs, there was not that soul to soul connection you would expect to find with a mother and her child. At times, I also wondered if I was adopted. I do not look to her now to fill my needs and I do not blame her because of her lack to connect with me. That is the way life is sometimes. As for adoptee's, I have three close friends of mine that were adopted as infants. We have had many discussions about the possiblity of them searching to find their bparents but none of them feel the need to. They all grew up in loving homes. They feel that their bparents did the very best they could for them and they are thankful that they were placed into loving homes. They get very upset with me when I even suggest they should search. They feel their life is great and they have no desire to change the way things God has intended. This individuals are highly accomplished. When we discuss my daughters open adoption, they are the first one's to remind me that they grew up in the closed era. They are very quick to point out to me that they would not want to have had two sets of Mothers and Fathers around them. They wanted and enjoyed a normal life. They feel our situation is just too weird for them and they fear that I am creating a situation in which my daughter will feel torn. So when you talk about a NEED for adoptee's to know their bparents, again, I have to agree with the others, this is not a need for everyone. I also think it is wrong to try to put any type of guilt on bparents. All the bparents I have meet here, placed their children to give them the best life possible. I think it is cruel to turn around and say that they have needs that you, the bparent let down. bromanchik ...you wrote to MissyM."You did not have this opportunity with Tovia. (For a variety of reasons, including the adoptive family not being educated about openness.) It is not something to punish yourself for. " I take offense that you talk about the adoptive family back at the time MissyM placed not being educated about openess. As many others have pointed out, that was not an option back then. Why would you say they were uneducated about it? They never had a choice as did MissyM? It appears you blame the aparents for not being educated? How can you blame aparents for this when IT WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME? Also, in taking it a step further what you are implying is that those bparents and aparents today, who do not wish to have an open adoption, are letting their children down. I find fault in anyone making blanket statements and trying to lay guilt on two parties that are trying to do the very best they can for their children. I guess, according to your statements, all those children that are adopted internationally will have unmeet needs. I just can't buy into that. Sorry!

Than maybe they need to see what the research says. Kids are not conflicted unless birthparents or adoptive parents try and take each other's roles. Kids deal with and resolve issues in step-family situations all the time. I think it is even more complicated for kids with step-parents. Then you have two sets of parents that are actually parents. Birthparent do not have a parenting role. There is a lot less conflict. This is true. But how do you determine, at birth, who is likely to have that need and who doesn't. My point is that the relationship should be nurtured. Why not have that love in the kid's life? If he needs it fine. If not. Fine. In all the studies on open adoption not one child wanted less contact. I think that is saying something important. I think this is how you are interpreting it. For SOOOO long birthparents have been made to feel worthless. We were there to provide babies and then our usefulness was over. I see it as empowering to know that my son needs more than to just give him life. I think it is a good thing for birthparents to know their love is needed. Who said I was blaming the adoptive parents? The facts are they were not educated about openness. No doubt some of the "education" they got would horrify you. One a-mom friend of mine was told when she adopted her daughter 24 years ago that she didn't need any medical history...she could just use her own for the baby!!! I don't fault anyone for ignorance or poor education. They may not be. Then again they may find that their child has needs that are not being met. I cannot tell how many people I talk to who are opening up adoptions based on a child's needs. The only blanket statement i am making is that birthparents and adoptive parents cannot know at the time a child is born what their needs for connection with their birthfamily will be.

Mom2 and Brenda have given me things to consider and I appreciate your insight. I know what the stats say about "open adoption" I have researched it well. Its a moot point however because 32 years ago closed is all they offered. As Tovia's mother I did what I thought would offer her the best chance at a good life. The fact that her placement landed her 2 doors away from me in no way meant that I should breech the terms of the original agreement and dispite the pain, longing and misery I felt, I kept that agreement and I never told anyone I was her mother. One of the saddest posts to read is a post from a b-parent in an open adoption whose agreement has been breeched and who's adoption has been slammed shut by the other parents. I personally could never do that, especially to her and the people I entrusted to raise her. By the same token my then 16 year old morals would not let me breech our CLOSED agreement in response to any of my needs or even what might some day become HER need. As far as a child "needing" her b-parents please know that Tovia has a b-father too. He beat the f*^&% out of me through out my entire pregnancy. I had my jaw wired shut the night I had her. His behavior was a motivating factor in my placement of her; he PROMISED to kill us both and tried to on more than one occassion before she was born. According to statistics she "needs" contact with him in order to thrive, and feel whole, healthy and happy. The state of Tx. however has given him a sentence that indicates all of society would be best served if he remains in a cage for the next 15-20 years. My point is I didn't do anything with her based on statistics....I based her placement and my involvement on my love, instincts and feelings. Statistics are peoples opinions about other peoples actions. I didn't care what the "majority" said, felt or thought; I never have. There was no one else in my uterus but Tovia at the time and it was she and she alone that I considered. There are some adoptee's who feel open is best and others who feel closed is best. When this thread started on the other thread it was because I replied to a post that stated 'Open was the ONLY way to go". I found that offensive and misleading. Never once did I reply that closed was best, only that it was ALSO an option. The responses I got made it seem as if I was "lauding" closed adoption. While openess has its advantages someone needs to be bold enough to state that closed adoption has worked for some too; not promote it, not sing its praises, just acknowledge it. I have never said nor will I ever advise anyone to go that route, but unlike what the pro-lifers do, I feel its wrong to tell anyone looking for advice that one method out of several is THE ONLY CHOICE; because thats misleading and the one thing a confused pregnant 15 year old does not need is confusing, conflicting misleading information....this I do know. Thanks for your input...each of you>>>>Missy M

Kim and Wingless....your posts are beautiful (as are others here) and they spoke my inner thoughts which I sometimes have a difficult time conveying. Thank you for posting, and to my sis Shar...you ROCK! ps>>>how do I clean out my pm box???Missy

Missy M: I am always impressed with your posts as you have a very articulate way of conveying an opinion that some may not agree with but will consider because of the way you put things. And sorry, I laughed at the "Tovia was the only one in my uterus". That was a hilarious way to put it, whether you meant to be funny or not. I just wanted to reiterate that it is the "blanket" statement that I have a problem with. I understand Brenda's viewpoint of "give them all the love you have and then if they need fine, if not fine." Some birthparents are just not able to do that, which may sound selfish to some, but some biological parents are not able to give love to the children they keep, and sometimes adoptive parents are not able to give the love that is needed. Some people just cannot do it for whatever reason. I would have loved to give my love to my son his whole life - it just wasn't an option due to closed adoption. For others, it may be the abusive significant other, emotional problems etc. EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT AND CONNOT BE BLANKETED.

The research I've read is really just a compilation of feedback from adoptees that were basically happy, well adjusted adults with no major complaints about their adoptive family life growing up. However, their almost unanimous gripe was the way basic facts about their adoption and birth family were withheld from them like it had been some national security affecting covert operation. As Brenda stated "how do you determine, at birth, who is likely to have that need and who doesn't." Since the answer to that question is obviously "it's not possible", IMHO it's wisest to err on the side of caution. I feel like everyone is still perceiving "open" and "closed" adoption arrangements as absolutes. There are many ways information can be provided and lines of communication can be kept open outside of first person visitation. If a birth parent simply decides that they don't want to contribute on any level, then I'm more than just insinuating that I feel they are letting their children down. I feel their actions are no less selfish than the birth parent from the closed era that arbitrarily rejects contact from their adult adoptee just to avoid the embarassment or complications they feel it may cause today. Trish

bromanchik: "My question is why go for the lowest common denominator? When you place a child you do not know if they will feel this need. Why not provide that love as if they do? I would rather give too much love than not enough." In no way would I call my closed adoption experience the "lowest common denominator". When one gives birth to a child, whether you place it or raise it, you do not know what their particular needs will be. My parents provided more than enough love. I don't think it's fair to insinuate to aparents that are in a closed adoption for whatever reason, or to counsel an expectant woman that may not want ongoing contact for whatever reason ~ that the result of this will be a child that is not connected and filled with hurt and pain. I personally feel this is misleading. "As far as not feeling connected.... what does that have to do with anything? There are plenty of cases of "black sheep" in both bio and adoptive families. Does that mean they don't need connection with their family? Of course they do. Whether or not they get it is another story." Perhaps I misinterpreted your previous posts. It seemed to me you were placing a lack of connection, pain and hurt on the lack of knowing love from bioparent. My point was one can be loved and raised with bioparent and feel a lack of connection, pain and hurt. There are many situations where an open adoption is not an option. There are bioparents that do not want to have a connection. AMom2Two fought very hard to keep bioparents of her daughter involved and still has less contact than she wants. My point is, it is NOT INEVITABLE that a child will suffer a lack of connection, hurt and pain due to bioparents not being part of the child's life. "For SOOOO long birthparents have been made to feel worthless. We were there to provide babies and then our usefulness was over." I think this is how you are interpreting it. Personally, I don't believe anyone makes another feel a certain way. We are responsible for our own feelings. Could it be that some bioparents felt worthless because they were unable to parent the child they created? Unless one is a surrogate, they are not "there to provide babies" to another. MissyM: "When this thread started on the other thread it was because I replied to a post that stated 'Open was the ONLY way to go". I found that offensive and misleading. Never once did I reply that closed was best, only that it was ALSO an option. . . . . While openness has its advantages someone needs to be bold enough to state that closed adoption has worked for some too; not promote it, not sing its praises, just acknowledge it. I have never said nor will I ever advise anyone to go that route, but unlike what the pro-lifers do, I feel its wrong to tell anyone looking for advice that one method out of several is THE ONLY CHOICE;" I completely agree. People can share information so others can make an informed choice, but no one can say with absolute certainty ~ ~ you should do this or it will negatively affect the child. I'm not promoting closed but I don't feel it should be portrayed as doing something horrible to the child either. (To clean out pm box ~ next to Date/Time sent is white box. Click on it and check will appear. At the bottom, click on delete and any message checked will delete. You can also delete messages by checking the delete box and clicking the delete button at the top of the message :) ) Patrisha is correct IMO ~ "There are many ways information can be provided and lines of communication can be kept open outside of first person visitation." It seems that some are claiming it's all about open vs. closed. There is semi-open available also. LegallyKim: "EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT AND CANNOT BE BLANKETED." Exactly! This is true for most situations in life ~ adoption related or not. As much as any parents (bio ~ raising their children or not, or adoptive) may want to feel that their love alone is responsible for determining the direction a child will take when an adult or how the child will ultimately feel, I don't feel that is accurate. Yes, it is a part ~ but ultimately there are so many other influences that we all face. I personally find it offensive that so many try to separate adoptees and make anything and everything about the fact that we joined our families by adoption and thus think, feel and act different than everyone else. Until I joined this forum I never even thought of myself as "an adoptee". If the topic came up my attitude was, "I was adopted" as in that is how I joined the family ~ past tense. It was not a self identifying factor at all. I think how aparents position adoption and how much they stress that it makes the child different is a critical factor. My parents did not deny adoption but they did not over stress it either. I'm grateful they had this wisdom. :) I love AMom2Two's signature line. Please read it and remember that an adoptee has as much power as anyone else to say "This I am today: that I will be tomorrow......" No different than the future of a child is not predetermined at birth ~ an adopted child's future, IMO, is not predetermined at the time of adoption either.

MissyM.... I wanted to thank you for that piece of advice. I have found comfort in it because I too am following my instincts. As Dlouis has explained earlier I am in an open adoption that is no where near as open as I would like. I would like more involvment with her bparents, yet they choose to not be. Much to my dismay her bmom has dropped out of the picture and I can not find her. It has come to a point where I am forced to step away and let her be until she wants contacts with us, when and if she ever does. To think that my daughters bmom disappearance will create an unmet need in my child worries me. I wanted open adoption so that she could grow up knowing who her bparents are. Despite my best efforts to keep contact, I can not chain her bmom to my doorstep and force her to stay involved. She has a life to live also. I have to respect her wishes and her choices. I do not feel when and if she should contact me that I should tell her you are not meeting your daughters needs. I imagine she will laugh at this because she placed her daughter so that I CAN meet her needs. I am doing the very best I can but I can't control other people. My instincts tell me that I am doing all I can and my daughter will benefit from it. I have so much information and so many pictures that if my daughter's bmom walks away today and can not handle this open adoption, I feel my daughter could look to her with compassion and love and NOT look to her to fill some unmet need of her's. One thing I feel my daughter's adoption agency did right was have her bmom fill out many questionnaires asking all kinds of questions that adoptee's might want to ask, from what is your favorite food to what is your whackiest behavior, to why did you place me. The pages are in depth and you can tell her bmom gave her answers alot of thought. Maybe with this information, her medical history, and all the family photo's I obtained of her biofamily, she will have any future needs answered. Hopefully my daughters bmom will work thru her issue's and return to us but in the event she does not, I refuse to believe that I CAN NOT meet all her needs. I feel to say that is to let my daughter and her bmom down. JMHO

"If a birth parent simply decides that they don't want to contribute on any level, then I'm more than just insinuating that I feel they are letting their children down. I feel their actions are no less selfish than the birth parent from the closed era that arbitrarily rejects contact from their adult adoptee just to avoid the embarassment or complications they feel it may cause today." ************************************************** How a birth parent could ever be accused of "not wanting to contribute on any level" is beyond me. Placement IS a contribution. I feel I gave out the waa-zu when it came to my child. I gave before I ever saw my child; I gave her a chance to have a lot more stability I was able to give her and that in and of itself was my contribution to her future and to her health and well-being. Its not even that I feel your statement is untrue, {who knows maybe Tovia would have been Condoleeza Rice had I had an open adoption...} its that you are speaking of her feelings, feelings that she has yet to voice. You are pointing the finger of blame at women who simply do not deserve that from you or anyone. Regardless of the outcome I still say you have to base your decision for open or closed on what YOU feel is best for your child. It isn't about statistics; or it shouldn't be IMHO. Every adoption is different and no one can say whats right or what works for one will work for us all. There are no gaurentees, no formulas for success, nothing but human emotion and raw instinct; and the most open adoption can easily produce the most screwed -up child. Years ago any woman who sought employment outside the home was accused of neglect; statitics pointed out that their kids would most likely feel abondoned, lost and go on and become everything from poor students to drug addicted criminals. Well guess what ... for every poor student you find whose Mom works outside the home there is also a 'A' student who's Mom works and a dropout crack head ex-student with a stay at home June Cleaver type Mom. When circumstances changed and women HAD to work it suddenly became"tolerable," then "acceptable," on to " normal " and now "fashionable" to have a career and kids. My point is why is it that it was OK for us in the 70's and before to agree to a closed adoption and really terrible for Moms today to do it? It seems that as long as it was the only option it was an acceptable option and that is hypocritical. Only Tovia can feel it and only God can judge it; but you do have the right to post it.