independant vs. Agency

Hi, I was wondering if you had gotten any responses to locating an attorney in Panama that does adoptions? If so could you send me some information? I am interested in Panama and am trying to find as much infomration as I can before I make my decision. Thanks

Hi, I'm sorry to say that I didn't get much in the way of information. It seems that Panama may not be the right place for us, since it seems that there is so little activity or knowledge about programs there. Right now, I'm looking at other countries in order to see what works best. If you hear of anything positive, PLEASE let me know! I would like to go back to Latin America if possible. Good luck in your start... Kathy

Kfloria & SDadoption, As far as I can tell, I am the only one currently adopting without an agency, working directly with an attorney. (The other independent adopter gave up on Panama and is now pursuing domestic adoption. She had sent her translated dossier to the DNA last August, and never did get a referral.) My attorney has been trying to find a child or two siblings (ages 0-8 yrs, any race, any treatable medical condition) for us since early July (8+ months now) with NO luck. It certainly isn't our attorney's fault---it's the system there. (In fact, she has been working very hard for us and for the kids of Panama!) If your attorney can't find available children, you'll just have to wait in line for the Panamanian government to refer a child to you. And as we are seeing, this can take as long as 8 months or more (we've been on their waiting list for 8 months, almost 9, and have not received a referral, yet.) Some families are getting referrals within just a month or two, though! (??) I suppose if you are open to older boys (older than 3 years), my attorney could certainly help you. Tell you what, PM me if you are open to "older" boys, and I'll see if she's willing (has the time and patience) to take new clients. The first thing she'll tell you, though, is that this is not a fast process, and will tell you to expect at least a year wait. Otherwise, my honest and heartfelt advice is that you choose another country. Consider adopting from countries in Eastern Europe who have scores of children. (I read that Colombia is taking up to 2 years now, so I'm not recommending that country anymore.) I personally recommend Cathy Harris who helps families adopt independently from Ukraine. See her site at: [url]www.ukrainianangels.org.[/url] (That was where we started, but at the time they were undergoing changes--a new director, etc., and it was looking shakey. Now that back up and running again.) Also look up the "UAFN" (Ukrainian Adoptive Family Network). They have a site offering FREE help to take some of the burden off Cathy's shoulders. (Visit her site and the # of families she has helped, and you'll see why!!!) Good luck, Rebecca P.S. I know of a 5-yr-old black boy (African or Caribbean roots, originally from Panama, now back in Panama) who speaks English and desperately needs a family (long story). It's a different attorney, but she represented a friend of mine, so I can put you in contact with her if you are interested (if ANYONE is interested, please let me know). This little guy needs a loving family!!!

Hi, Are you attorney's here in the US or are they in Panama? Could you send me the attorney's names to my email address at Special_delivery2@comcast.net? Thanks so much for the information that you provided.

Ours is a Panamanian attorney. ALL families must have their request to adopt presented in court by a Panamanian attorney. (Even agency families are being represented in Panama by a Panamanian attorney, hired by the agency.) Technically, you don't need an American attorney UNLESS you want to change the child's name once you get back to the states or you want to get a state-issued birth certificate (so that it will be easier to get copies in the future for school, Little League, etc.). You don't really need an attorney to do this--you can represent yourself, but paying an attorney a few hundred bucks to handle all of the paperwork isn't bad. (And this would be several weeks or months AFTER you return home with your child, adoption completed.) There are a few families who ran into trouble with their agency (not being accredited?), so they did hire a U.S. attorney, but for entirely different reasons that shouldn't apply to you. :D ...I see that I have a PM. I'll check that and forward you any pertinent info. Reb

hi Reba I was curious to know a little about your choice of independent vs an agency for your adoption choice. Since we decided to go to Panama for an adoption I am researching attorney's and agency information to make our decision. I currently got two attorney's name in Panama but I want to be sure they are experience, reliable and honest. If you can provide some information I would appreciated tremendously and it would mean more coming from someone who is going through the process. Two things I heard: that the Panamanian Ministry doesn't really recognize any agency, that everything is done through an attorney and that they don't stipulate in country fees for adoptions(the goverment don't charge fees). What do you know about that? Thanks for your reply. PS. I am a newby and I may be a little slow in responding; I am trying to find my way around this forum :o

Gio, As for the Panamanian government (and the DNA, or Direccion Nacional de Adopciones) recognizing agencies, it goes like this: Yes, an attorney must represent the family to the DNA and at court. However, having an agency that is well-connected and respected by the DNA is very helpful, but it is not required. This may be how the agency families are getting their referrals much faster than we independent adopters are. As far as I can tell over the past year, there are only 3 agencies that are "officially" recognized in Panama: Faith International, World Partners, and Commonwealth International. We are no longer allowed to post our opinions about agencies on this forum anymore, so you'll have to PM me (private message) for my recommendations. As for "in-country fees," you are correct. Panama does NOT charge any fees to adopt from their country. My guess is that the agencies charge families to help support the orphanages where they have connections. Rather than calling this "aid for orphanages" or "charitable contributions," they are calling it "country fees." However, it may also be the fee that the Panamanian attorney is paid, if that is not listed separately on the agency's breakdown of fees. The typical range for Panamanian adoption attorneys is: $3,500-$7,000. Gio, can you tell me where you are from? (De donde es usted?) My guess is that English is not your first language. Perhaps this can work to your advantage in Panama! Rebecca

Please private message me-- I think we are on the right track- but until we get our little girl home I would not want to share the name of my attorney. We were burned a few months ago with a bad agency- so I am not giving any advice until I feel really confident about what is happening to us. yh

Gio, are you currently in Panama??? If so, the easiest way to get ideas for attorneys is to go to the DNA office and ask their secretary ("off the record") which adoption lawyers she/he would recommend! Which ones have been very persistent and "pendiente" on the "expedientes" of their clients??? This will tell you that those attorneys will work hard for you and your child! If you are living in Panama right now, you are really at a great advantage over other adoptive families who must rely on word from their agencies or attornies. And as I said before, if you speak Spanish, too, this will really help your case! I speak some Spanish, and the DNA director has been thrilled that I use it (with her) and that I will be able to communicate with our adopted children. :) P.S. We chose "independent" adoption over an agency due to cost. We just could not afford the costs of working with an agency. Our two cars are 9 and 13 years old, and neither is paid off, yet. My husband is putting his oldest son through college and will be sending another off to college next fall....not to mention the expensive parochial education that all three boys had...in addition to a very nice weekly child support payment to his ex and her live-in boyfriend (who together own 3 homes, a boat, a summer cabin, etc.). :rolleyes: I know that many agencies like to compare the costs of adopting to the costs of buying a new car---but many, MANY families can't afford a new car, so it's like comparing shiny, fresh apples to bruised and rotting oranges. (Pleasant visual metaphor, eh?) P.P.S. I just paid some bills and saw my entire MONTHLY income (from MY part-time job) being sent to the circuit court for a WEEKLY child support payment to the ex-wife, thus my sour mood. Sorry. ;)

Whoownsthis -you said your attorney might be able to help if people are open to adopting "older boys" My husband and I are considering a two or three yr old child - do you think your attorney could help? We have a 12 yr old girl and a 15 yr old boy so we're open to either sex. We have finished our homestudy but are waiting to pick a country before sending 600 A to BCIS. I speak Spanish and could communicate with a preschool child.

This little boy that my attorney told me about is 5 years old. But he's legally available right now (parental rights have already been terminated), so the process to adopt him would be much faster than the rest of us are going through! It's going to be very difficult to find children under 5. Some families are getting referrals, but nobody has been able to figure out the hows and whys of it all. As I mentioned above, the DNA has had our dossier for 10 months, and we still haven't received a referral from them. Please PM me if you're interested in adopting this 5-yr-old boy, though, and I'll be sure to let my attorney know! Kfloria and/or SDAdoption may have already contacted my attorney already. I asked them to update me after they contacted her, but neither has. For this reason, I'm being much more careful with who I give out my contacts to (never quite sure if people are posing as parents, but they're really agency workers trying to find out about child referrals!!! It happens in Guatemala all the time!). I can tell you that Panama isn't one of those countries where you get a referral and have time to decide whether you'll accept the child or not. It seems that there are so few children legally available, that if you get a referral, you need to grab it, or you could be waiting another year before you get another one! Ugh. Thanks, Rebecca