Embryo Adoption

I am not Catholic so I cannot speak to the position of your church. However, I do want to encourage you to really search for the statistics and to ask the right questions. The sucess rates are much higher than what I have read in this forum. I would also say that that frozen or not, they are human life. Embryo adoption gives them the chance of having wonderful parents and experiencing a world of opportunities. The idea of thawing them, baptizing them and allowing them to die seems barbaric when with the implant (depending on the adoptive mother's age, health, etc.) they can have a very high success rate.

Cejay, You are entitled to your opinion, but this is an ethical discussion regarding the Catholic Church's position on this issue. This discussion is not about which clinic can give the best success rates (the rates I quoted are directly from a major Christian embryo adoption organization website's FAQ), but whether the procedure is in line with the Church's teaching. This forum is meant for Catholic Adoptive Parents to discuss things without being subjected to Catholic Church-bashing.

I apologize if you think I was bashing the Catholic church. The topic is of interest to me from the point of view of a believer (whether Catholic or Protestant). That is why I made it clear in the beginning that I was not Catholic and wouldn't speak to those specific issues. I'll create a new thread.

K, I would continue your search for answers...let us know what you find out. Doctor Mom

I found this on EWTN's website: Embryo adoption program Question from Mike Shuler on 09-06-2003: What it the Church's position on the Snowflake Adoption program, in which frozen embryos left over from in vitro fertilization are transferred to adoptive parents to prevent their destruction? I understand that the Church is against in vitro fertilization, but once these lives exist, is it looked upon favorably to try to protect them? Mike Answer by Judie Brown on 09-08-2003: Dear Mike Your understanding of the Church position is correct. FOr a discussion of this subject see [url]http://www.all.org/issues/ivf2.htm[/url] Judie Brown ~~~~~~~~~~~ This should answer a lot of questions! :)

Marci, Thanks for this information. I just couldn't see past another position or fate for these poor souls. (Absurd that it is djp. That is an eloquent way of putting it.) Sienna, I've got to ask that we not be hypersensitive to Church-bashing. I think you may have gotten a little defensive with cejay. Success rates were inherent to the discussion because it was an argument for great risk to the embryo. To your point, if success rates were high there would be less trouble with adoption. Cejay did not seem to be bashing at all. She was simply encouraging us to get all info which never seems to be a bad idea in my mind. Also, thawing and baptizing is certainly not Church position so there was no bashing there either. I have been waiting for a compelling discussion on this board and want to thank all of you for your participation!

Marci, Thanks for the link! The question posed by Mike is "I understand that the Church is against in vitro fertiilization, but once these lives exist, is it looked upon favorably to try to protect them?" Judi says, "Your understanding of the Church position is correct" This exchange seems to suggest that the Church is FOR rescuing embryos by adoption. Bishop Sgreccia's conclusion is that "it is one big question mark"To me, it is like the ends don't justify the means. I thought it would be good to actually have the last 2 paragraphs of the link you provided posted here. "GRAVE RISKS COULD BE AVOIDED Bishop Elio Sgreccia, a papal advisor on bioethical questions and vice president of the Pontifical Academy of Life, has said that at the very least, the overproduction of human embryos should be prohibited, for it is this practice that results in the possibility of freezing them in the first place. In the same statement (Zenit, 10/31/01), he also added that "adoption is an expression of love and respect for life and in this case it is important to emphasize that the frozen embryo has the value of a child. In spite of everything, I maintain that it is absolutely necessary that, at the moment when the procedure for the adoption of existing embryos is established, the conditions and essential information must also be given on the grave risks that the adoptive parents must face." In a subsequent interview published in the Catholic World Report, Bishop Sgreccia pointed out 90 percent or more of these human embryos, once thawed, will not survive nor will they be strong enough to implant themselves in the adoptive mother's womb. And he says, "Even if it does work, there are no guarantees that the child won't have serious handicaps. The risk of handicap increases the longer an embryo is frozen: one or two years or five years." Additionally, he says, "Can we really counsel women to do this? It would mean counseling heroism. Many attempts would fail. Also, you would have to do it at certain periods of the month when the uterus is ready. And if the baby is born handicapped, she must still take care of it, because it would be cruel to abort it. "The issue is one big question mark. The point is, we should never have gone down this road to begin with. It is full of problems." CONCLUSION We have said nothing of the actual freezing process itself which is an assault on human dignity, arresting the vital cycle of a human embryo, thus deciding the fate of another human being by a mere act of power. Professor Mauro Cozzoli writes of these human embryos, "His life is 'suspended,' it is 'there,' frozen and deposited, like a product of consumption, next to many others, available in case of need. His dignity is reduced to the value of something to be used, subject also to expiration, since the physical integrity and even the vitality of a frozen embryo cannot be guaranteed, in direct proportion to the time and modality of the freezing. Thus in addition to an excess of power, there is joined the violence by which these 'expired' and 'unserviceable' lives are disposed of." We have seen the adoptive families of babies who have survived the freezing, been thawed, and lived to enjoy family life. We praise God for those miracles. But we also must, in perfect honesty and without hesitation, admit that the abuse of human persons that occurs when such indignities begin at the very start of any in vitro fertilization cycle are such that the only humane response to this tragedy which continues to build on itself is to ban in vitro fertilization once and for all. Yes, there is great suffering caused by infertility in a marriage. But just as God has a plan for two people who are married but cannot bear children, so too God has a plan for every child. And as Donum Vitae makes clear, "A true and proper right to a child would be contrary to the child's dignity and nature. The child is not an object to which one has a right, nor can he be considered as an object of ownership: rather, a child is gift, 'the supreme gift' and the most gratuitous gift of marriage, and is a living testimony of the mutual giving of his parents. For this reason, the child has the right to be the fruit of the specific act of the conjugal love of his parents; and he also has the right to be respected as a person from the moment of his conception." We ask God to provide special graces to each couple facing the suffering associated with infertility. We ask Him to bless the researchers who continue, even now, to work on technologies that are in harmony with God's creative power while safeguarding the dignity of human procreation in accordance with the Natural Law. And we ask God to give each of us the ability to support in love and deed these couples during their time of trial, knowing that such couples may be called by God to adopt, to work among those in need, or to assist other families who are poor or who have disabled children themselves. American Life League does not condone the abusive treatment of any human person including the embryonic child. For this reason we oppose in vitro fertilization and we warn prospective adoptive parents of the risks and the suffering they may endure in their quest to adopt "excess" embryonic children. We call for a halt to the practice of "creating" spare human embryos. We call upon our national leaders and our research scientists to acknowledge God, the Author of life, end the practice of in vitro fertilization and related technologies, and strive to work and to live in accord with His plan by observing the precepts of justice which include the Natural Law. Only then will we begin to see the proper respect for human dignity restored to our land. "

Hi All I really appreciate all the discussion! I did hear back from my Bishops office (not from him directly) and basically was less informative then what I have learned from this discussion. He did refer me to the same website you did Dr Mom. Basically, the catholic church hasn't said a definative NO as of yet and scholars are lining up on both sides of the issue. The answer to the question from the American Life League was good. The question that keeps popping up in my head after trying to digest the indignity of being frozen is, what happens to the babies soul? Is it to frozen? there just are no easy answers here Katie

My gut feeling is that they're handling this very carefully because if they officially condone the adoption of frozen embryos, the demand will exceed the supply and more frozen embryos will be created just to meet the demand.

Marci, I totally agree with you. If they condone it, then it is a slippery slope to condoning IVF. Of course, that doesn't answer the question of what to do with the already-created life that has been suspended in time.

I guess I don't see the potential for a great increase in the number of embryos created. Parents who start IVF would still have to come to grips with the potential of their biological children being adopted out. It seems as this reality would be a safeguard.

Katie, What diocese do you belong to? We live in SE Minnesota/Diocese of Winona. It's good to hear that your bishop refered you to the National Catholic Bioethics Center...there are some really top-notch people there. Doctor Mom

I see that the last post is January of 04. Does anyone know the outcome? Has the Church made a decision on this?

I have not seen anything in re: to the CC take on this issue but I do plan on contactinga priest friend of ours to see what he says.I will post here to let you know what he said.Maura.

I'm sorry I missed this thread when it first started. We are considering having an Infertility Night for Catholic Couples at our church. So, we have been researching this very topic. Here's our group's conclusion - This is one of those very rare instances where the Church currently offers no instruction on a grave moral issue, so the matter needs to be decided with an informed conscience. Even if the Church ultimately comes out against it, if the decision to adopt an embryo is made now with a fully well formed conscience, then the scientifically assisted pregnancy will not be "grandfather sinned." I have to say when I originally heard about embryo adoption, I had no moral objections. However, the more I hear about it, the more I think it can easily become a way for infertile couples to rationalize in vitro - obviously this is troubling from a Catholic perspective. On the flip side, there are millions of frozen embryos out there and if they could be given a chance to live, that would be a beautiful thing. Of course, the vast majority of these embryos are not currently available for adoption.