Can foster children be placed with relatives you are illegal aliens?

And I found out that relatives cannot get paid for taking the children in, this would be more of a conservatorship or guardianship and not a foster placement. I'm not sure about the aunt and uncle getting any preference for legal status because of this...

I fail to see how their immigration status would make them any more or less likely to go back to Mexico and hand over the children as you suggest. I am assuming since the parents are here legally, they would like to stay in the country. I think it's admirable that despite the risk of being reported to immigration authorities, these people are willing to step up and take in a relative's children. Furthermore, they may be able to prove income--they could easily be working with false papers, which would make them appear legal. Finally, I would think that if you are truly interested in the welfare of the children, you would want them placed with people who love them and their parents. Assuming that the aunt and uncle are decent people and can be good parents, it would be better for the children to be placed with them than remain with strangers. It appears you do not know if they are decent people--all you know is their immigration status.

spaypets, First of all, the idea of their fleeing to Mexico was the concern of the children's worker. And it makes sense, this family has been under scrutiny with CPS for many years, going back to other family members so there would be good reason to be fearful of such a thing happening. I care deeply about these children and take offense at your insinuating that I woudn't want them to be with family. On the contrary, the parents at this time are working on their plan and should be given the chance. And I'm sick and tired of people assuming just because they are blood relatives that they are decent people and should be given top priority. These family members didn't step up to the plate until over 2 months AFTER the children were taken by the State. If they are so anxious to help where were they when this all started and the years before when this was going on. I'm not trying to start an argument but unless you have all the facts then you can't say that these people are "decent" and since they aren't in this country legally that should also be taken into consideration. There are laws and everyone who lives here must abide by them...why didn't they try to come into this country legally? I just asked the general question because I was not aware that anyone who was undocumented or illegally in this country had the rights to anything in this country whether it be custody of family members, work, or anything else.

Conversely, you don't have the facts to say that they aren't decent people. You don't know and I don't know--but your posts imply that you assume they're not, merely because they are undocumented. People who enter this country illegally are desperate. They are fleeing abject poverty, political persecution and worse. Their "illegal" status is a political construct not a moral failing. Many of us are descended from people who fled their homelands for the same reasons. The difference is in the political climate of this country -- not in the action of the immigrants. You say that they didn't step forward for two months like that's a long time. In dealing with a bureaucracy it can easily take that long to find out the situation and ascertain what their rights and obligations would be. It is entirely possible that until CPS took they children they were unaware of the trouble -- I can certainly imagine parents would not share their trouble with the state with others.

At this point I don't know or care whether they are decent or not. And their legal status is irrelevant to the situation other than the fact that the children are American children and have the rights and privileges that come with that. These relatives are the second set of relatives that were evaluated for taking the children and as I said before the worker has a concern that they will flee if the situation gets worse and that is of concern. I'm really tired of people thinking that because you are blood related to someone that you would be better off with them than with some "stranger"...Ex. There was a woman who recently killed her 10-month-old daughter after being under scrutiny with CPS. She cut her baby's arms off with a butcher knife! After following her for months they deemed her "ok" and now her baby is dead and her 2 other daughters have been taken away from their father because he failed to protect the baby. The safety and well-being of children are more important than blood relations. I hope the parents of these kids get their "act together" and get them back but I don't think that the State should just dump them in the home of a relative just to get them off their caseload.

And what I'm saying is that simply because someone is in this country illegally doesn't mean that they are any more likely to flee the situation than anyone else. To assume otherwise without any other information (like how deep their ties in the US vs. Mexico, do they have children born in this country, do they own property, do they go back and forth to Mexico, how long have they been here) is simply prejudice based on national origin. After all, the parents didn't go back to Mexico when CPS was investigating them. Couldn't family members who are here legally, but who have ties to another country also flee? So should children be placed only with relatives who cannot leave their homes? I could come up with equally horrific stories of foster parents torturing the children in their care. Why would you think that the children would be in danger with these people? All you've said is that there here illegally. Are you really suggesting that immigration status is an indicator of whether someone is likely to abuse children? Because that's the only thing you've mentioned. If the goal is still reunification, better that the children stay within their family. It means fewer changes and a better chance of staying in contact with other extended relatives. Stranger placement should be a last resort in all foster care situations.

spaypets You say>" People who enter this country illegally are desperate. They are fleeing abject poverty, political persecution and worse. Their "illegal" status is a political construct not a moral failing. Many of us are descended from people who fled their homelands for the same reasons. The difference is in the political climate of this country -- not in the action of the immigrants. " While the above statement is somewhat true of some people it is not true of all illegal immigrants. It is of concern that there are other people for whom LAW is not an important concept and thier illegal activities extends beyond thier entry to the country to thier daily lives. It includes making money through drugs and other illegal activities such as transporting other illegals in dangerous conditions. It includes using children to thier advantage. They enter the country illegal and move on to manipulate as much of the system to thier advantage as they can. The vast majority of illegal immigrants likely falls somewhere in the middle of these two groups. To me illegal status raises a flag to look closer. No one is saying the aunt and uncle are not decent people but it is reasonable to assume that they are less likely to comply with some laws because they are already not abiding by several. This is an important issue to explore further to assure the best interest of the children. Apparently they won't document thier place of work, can we assume the income is legally obtained? How is that done? Unfortunately the current laws favor relative placement rather then the best interest of the child. Relative placement could be the best interest of the children but in this situation it may be impossible to ascertain. Since the parents are working thier plan and the current goal is reunification why would it be in the best interest of the children at this point to be placed in a family with which it sounds like they are related but have no relationship? They should still be connected to thier culture through thier parents. Is TPR on the horizon?

I'm not sure I agree with your hypothesis that because a couple breaks immigration laws they are more likely to engage in other criminal behavior. Indeed, the literature seems to indicate that once you control for age, sex and marital status, the crime rates are remarkably similar to the crime rate of citizens. Certainly any family that is taking in wards of the state should be carefully checked out. And it may be that this placement is inappropriate for these children. But I think it's very disappointing that the feeling on this board has been to assume that merely because they are undocumented that they are unsuitable to take care of their relatives. None of us knows. While the uncle and the aunt may have only a casual relationship with these children, they could have a close relationship with relatives the children are in contact with (grandparents etc.) thus ensuring continuing contact with those family members.

Whether or not you want to call people out to be predjudicing this family b/c they are illegal aliens...the fact remains that they broke the law. I am not saying that this would be a bad placement for the child but if they are unable to aquire money, ect legally than I believe that is an issue. I know of many people that are here illegally and they are nice people but if you are unable to check there background than that should be the answer to any questions.

jolean12, That was the start of my whole point, that if they are illegal how can they be checked out as far as references, past abuse, etc. I never said they were "bad people" because they were here illegally I just asked the question about them being allowed to care for children WHO ARE legal citizens. Somehow this question has been turned into an argument alleging prejudice because they are illegal. It has nothing to do with prejudice it has to do with legalities. I just questioned the fact that since coming into this country without permission IS AGAINST THE LAW then why would these people or anyone who did this be allowed to even be considered for guardianship of any child, relative or not. Thanks for your input!

I agree with both sides. Just becouse they are here illegaly does not mean they are bad people. I do know that many people from the poor part from Mexico are very kind and humble people. But they do tend to do things that are not legal. Mind you I am not predjudice, but my husbands family is from Mexico, two of my aunts are from Mexico, and my best friend of 13 years family is from Mexico. They do not believe in a lot of the laws, most do not have driver licence or having health or auto insurance. Actually with my friends family they think its stupid to have auto insurance. They have to work illegaly and a lot have to steal othrer peoples ssn to be able to work. A lot of them tend to pass their children around if they can not handle it. One of my aunt came back from visiting Mexico last month. She told me she almost was going to bring me a big surprise. A 1 month old baby girl. The mother past her to her sister who could not care for her and was going to give her to my aunt who she was going to bring back illegally for me so i can have a baby. the sad t thing that this is something very common. I have seen this with my own eyes. I would be concerned if any of my f children would go with family that do not have papers. Sasha sue regarding of the family taking them to mexico. Well that happened to us. We had foster children, one was severly abused with 3 rd degree burns. SW decided to have the kids stay a couple of days with mom. Well she took off to Mexico and we have never seen them again. So yes that can happen. Sad to say. I dont mean this as disrespect, but they are from a country with differnt laws and many do not understand or do not agree with the laws here.

Sasha sue, I hope you know that I was agreeing with your initial tread. This did turn into a nasty mess and I know you were not saying they were 'bad people', but facts are facts and they are already breaking the law. None of this has anything to do with predjudice and I hate that it turned into that. Do you have any more news on what is going on with the homestudy, ect?

jolean, I haven't heard any more about the homestudy. I'm kinda afraid to ask actually. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens next. For some reason they switched the children's family visits to Mondays instead of Thursdays. They waited until Monday morning to let me know that of course. I'll keep you informed if anything happens. And thanks, I knew you were agreeing with me on the basic question I had and that was about the legality of being in this country and yes, it is breaking the law to be here without permission, so it shouldn't just be swept under the rug just because they happen to be relatives to these kids...

You have no idea when they even found out or were notified that the children were in state custody. 2 months is still VERY early into the case. Nobody is assuming that they are decent, but we shouldn’t assume that they aren’t either which is what you’re doing without any information. You’re judging these people and coming up with all of these concerns based on their citizenship status. Smh.

Well, the social worker is also passing judgement and her concern is baseless because anybody can flee to another country-undocumented or not. You keep repeating that just because someone is blood related doesn’t mean the child is better off with them. If they can pass a background check and can care for the children and keep them safe, THAT IS ALL THAT MYTERS. Everything else is just you sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong and overstepping. Maybe do some research. Illegal immigrants have rights, too. They can absolutely be considered as relative placements and if they have children, the have a right to custody and/or visitation just as much as parent who is a citizen.