help, I feel grossed out by my foster boys

Kids with these backgrounds need to be taught how to use affection appropriately. Also, moms often need to be in charge of when and how affection is handed out. These kids need lots of hugs and kisses, but the right way. They may have gotten the wrong kinds of kisses etc in their old home. They don't understand what they are doing. My kids who are smaller or the same size as me, I hug with my arms above theirs which prevents any grabbing that could occcur. I also decide when my kids need hugs(until they are healthy.) I let them know that good moms know that-however, they need at least 12 hugs a day at the point they're at. I'm also a fan of cheek kissing only. What they were doing was not sexual to them at that age. It's a learned behavior. Teach them something better.

Great advice from Lucy because to little children they do not know what is right or wrong unless we teach them. For the rest of your concerns it does sound to me like maybe you should complete the adoption of your other child and consider taking an extended break from Fostering. The one promise we do get is that we don't know what really happened to 'their' children before we offered to parent them. The damage doen even to the youngest of children requires so much from us as parents that it can be more then we can deal with... Were you wishing to adopt these two little ones as well? Also--My parent recall stories of me as a very young child re-enacting things I saw on TV apparently there was a preiod of time when they had to be on guard when bedtime kisses came along as they report that I got really romantic about kissing.... Sometimes this behavior is not about prior sexual abuse--but can be as simple as seeing a big kiss on a comercial during Saturday morning cartoons. Or if they see their parents kissing then they think this is how a real kiss is done... The real fact is that when we take 'their' kids we take into our lives things and histories that in nearly any case will include things we find unusual or adnormal.... They would not be in Foster Care if they came from homes that had the vaules we all hope every child has.... What was NORMAL to 'their' children is NOT normal to families who do not have children in 'their' care....If the home these boys came from was healthy then they would still be there........ I can understand being digusted by this behavior. When our daughter first showed signs of her prior sexual abuse it was directed toward daddy and I personally had to analyze my own self before I could resond properly. It is NOT okay for me to cop an attitude with a 5 year old girl making passes at my husband--It is not okay for me to be angry that my new daughter wants me to go away so she can marry daddy.... I had to first address MY own feelings about this issue before I could move on. My feelings ranged from Anger toward her and toward my own husband.... to deep sorrow that someone had hurt this little girl is such a horrible way that she believed showing her daddy love included certain sexualized behaviors... We have had to deal with the inappropriate touching and one day right in front of our neighbors our daughter attempted to french kiss her little brother! :eek: We had to deal with that too. It was rather horrifying to have our neighbors see such a disgusting thing.... and caused us personal pain to have to deal with our neighbors. 'Their' children are not going to become a part of a completely NEW life without our help as Foster and or Adoptive parents. These little boys may not be doing what it seems they are--or they might be....but, they do need hugs and they need a lot of them everyday.... They need to be reeducated if they have been sexually abused....They are sooooooo young that this can be done with so much greater ease then if it should be delayed at all. Some of 'their' children need to be completely reparented starting from holding them and feeding them a baby bottle and teaching them to understand what they may not have gotten when they were tiny babies.... Personally, my advice is that you decide if you are going to be able to put aside your own issues in these behaviors and investigate some ways to help these little boys....and give them something valuable while they are in your home....Or deal with the fact that the state is going to analyze your ability to cope with some of the issues 'their' children have. I think it is completely acceptable that the state does consider past moves and reasons for these moves. They need and 'their' children need everything possible to heal--if the state understands that you personally are not equiped to deal with sexulized or any other issues then they can match children placed in your home much better. Moving Foster children is painfully damaging to the children. Every move is a new chance for attachment disorders to bloom or be made worse. The state should consider your past issues when deciding on which children should be placed into your home. They would be neglectful to 'their' children if they didn't consider these past times when you did ask for a child to be moved on. We NEED to do our best to insure that a child has as long and stable of a placement as is possible in order to spare them attachment issues. RAD and attachment problems are by far the most difficult thing for families to deal with.... Sadly the majority of children who do have RAD also have other serious issues that happened to them....new families cannot even help the child recover from the issues until the attachment is made and dealt with...in somany cases our little children who have attachment problems cannot even start to over come being sexually abused--or beaten--or starved until they have overcome RAD--which is long and hard and difficult to find the proper therapy to even address the problems. We KNOW our daughter has some very painful past expereinces...living in a shopping cart for four years is horrible and after nearly two years of living in our home we expect that it will be another full year before the RAD is behind us and we can fouce on the sexulized behaviors, and other serious issues.... I don't expect I will be able to take her shopping for at least another year.... I would hope that you can put aside the grossed out feeling--I understand it completely--and I do know it is very difficult when we find ourselves dealing with 'their' children's worsts issues. I would ask you for the sake of these little boys to make a decision today that you will either deal with this the best you possibly can or that you will ask the state to move them sooner rather then later so that they may have a chance to avoid attachment problems.... I think the foster families can make or break a child ability to have healthy attachments...If a foster mother is pusing the child away this to me will hurt them... The system is supposed to be about the children and is not about those of us who choose to be part of this system. Not everyone is expected to deal with 'their' children and it does no child a service if they are not in a home where they are feeling unconditional love. Your feelings have to not count it only matters how the child feels. If a foster parent cannot feel unconditional love then it does that child no real good in the long run. I know because my little girl came from a Foster home where she did not feel she was loved and she was pushed away....even told that they wanted her baby brother but not her.... That pain has hurt for a long long time and is still one of her greatest pains. She felt it and she was not even five when we took her.

So much for support Anna... I do not plan to move the children. I need to know how to cope with what I have never dealt with before. You may think you know it all... but you have no idea. we, the children and I are gonna get through this... I don;t want my kids to learn behaviors these boys have learned. How can you dis me, when I need to protect them. It is really insulting for you, who don't even foster parent to judge me. You don;t know the rest of the story, you don't don't know what C did to J (14mo,) last Sunday. or, what C does to M, (18mo) You don't know what their two year old sister has been doing for the last month, who does not live with us, but has been exibiting some major sexualized behavior also. It is so bad, and embarrising, I don't want to reviel all ugly the details of this case. But, I do need to learn from others who have been there, how do you deal with this. and in regards to "their kids" I mean CPS thinks they are "their" kids. I think they are all my kids when they live with me, but, CPS doesn't think they are mine. I have learned at lot from my few years of fostering. I have seen how it tears children up to move them. I hate to do it. I had good reasons to move the kids. Only 2 moved in four years... one, had 11 months, and she is now adopted by the family she was moved to. Second, I had two children that were hurting each other, I did it to protect her from further harm. -------------------------------------- ok, I called cw and she is suggesting getting the interviewed by a agency that helps with sexually abused children. I told the children kisses on the cheek from now on and I will let them know when they need a hug...which can be often, but I will be in charge of these things from now on. I feel a little better as the day goes on, I just feel more on guard, watchful. I will continue to be watchful and see what happens.... you never know...

I am sorry I didn't attempt to dis you at all.... and I do know what it feels like to have a sexually abused child in my home--and to be tied by the rules of Foster Parents of 'their' kids... My daugher was Foster for nearly a year waiting to finalize. All caseworkers refer to these children as 'thier kids.' so I did understand what you were saying as I have been very involved in with the Foster and Foster to Adopt community for a number of years. I am not in the position to foster at this time as I feel I am a better mother of two children at a time--I do however plan to and hope that in the future when my kids are older and Safe to do more fostering. My children are Foster adopt children who were placed as pre-adoptive. In fact just yeaterday I had a call from a mother of a little boy on my little girls school bus--and my daughter in so many words has now 'Verbally sexually molested' another child..... My husband cannot be alone with her as if he is she will grab his privates... At Thanksgiving dinner our beautiful daughter announced that she "likes to rub her privates because it feels good an no one can ever make her stop...." A few weeks ago at a Birthday party at the YMCA swimming pool my daughter had to leave because she was having a relationship with the water fountian spary in the pool... I cannot allow my child to have play date at other peoples houses... and I don't dare have other children here unless there are other adults... I certainly would not want to go to court for my child sexually abusing another child when I ran down stairs to check the pot roast. Evey man who comes to our house must be warned...many friends we used to have don't come to our house anymore... My 21 year old son is not planning to stay here for Christmas break becasue he 'can't deal with it anymore...' My daughter draws pictures of body parts and gives them to her friends....has not had recess at school for over a month because she chases boys and grabs them. My oldest daughters boy friend will NOT come to our home again...he is sick and tired of it.... At an after funeral dinner for a friends father our beautiful daughter sat right next to a teenage couple and begged them to kiss in front of her. She told her male therapists they were going to get married and twiddle with each others privates to make babies. On vacation my father had to take away his neck massaging tool after finding my daughter playing in an unusual way with it. My 6 year old daughter wants to ware red lipstick and halter tops to school and has attempted to sneek these things already! ...........I do know how it feels to have a sexually abused child in my home. I know how it feels to wait a year for our medical insurance to kick in after the adoption because the States coverage won't cover the kind of therapy she needs. I know how it feels to have DHS tell me that it seems like something that she might outgrow or is a sign that she is feeling safe enough to express herself....brovo.... I know how it feels trust me. I have a son who will be 3 next month and I would rather change his diapers then toilet trian him.... until he has words to let me know if anything happend... I have a little boy who a few weeks ago was touching him self and I took that as an opportunity to tell him No one but him could touch his privates only to hear my hardly able to talk baby say, "Ka touched me pee wee." If she did it had to be right under my nose because there are NEVER moments she is alone with him.... I fear she has as his behavior indicates he is reactive toward her and God for the life of me I could not tell you how this might have happened and I VERY VERY MUCH DO KNOW HOW IT FEELS. I am sorry you were offended by my post to you. I honestly found it rather hard to understand how it grossed you out and would cause you to push the boys away. Yes--we have to work hard to figure out how to deal with these behaviors....but it is not their fault and it does not make sense to me for an adult to be grossed out by a 3 and 4 year old.... Horrified at the trauma they must have suffered--yes but if you do intend to deal with this in a good way for these boys I hope you can move passed being grossed out and attempt to handle the episodes that do come us without makine them feel like dirty kids. I didn't post to dis you--Parenting a sexually reactive child is not an easy road to go and the reality is that if they have been sexually abused they will have issues that come up and there will be no way to be 100% sure your little ones are safe at every moment unless you plan to be the only person in charge of their care 24/7 and don't sleep... My children do not spend time at a sitter together--my children are watched as close as any parent could watch children. There isn't an easy way to get past this.... If in fact this is due to sexual abuse then these boys may act out at different times for a long time.... Some of us have found we need to put alarms on our childrens bedroom doors in order to know if they have left their room.... We have installed vedio monitors in her room, the babies room, the play room....and the upstairs hall way.... We have had to buy a mini-van so they can sit in two different rows in the car as I would never be able to stop her from reaching over and grabbing him while we drove and wouldn't see it in the dark... We have rules in our house about cuddling and kissing and dressing and who can use wich bathroom. I have to frisk my daughter everytime she walks out the door to be sure she has not drawn a picture to give to a firend at school.... It is an everyday possiblity my guard can never be let down. I can not trust that she will not harm her brother no matter how long it has been since the last sex thing--no matter how well it seems she is doing. Along with RAD--Bipolar and ADHD she is sexually abused. For these reasons we have had to decide that in January she will have to attent 24 months of day treatment and leave school. We would rather not have to decide this...but her sexual behavior at school has been the final straw for us. I am not sure what other support I can offer other then to say this is HARD and these children need more then some of us can give--sexual abused is horrible but my pain is not about how it makes me feel my pain is about how horrible it must feel for her...and how confused she must be and how in Gods name did this happen to this beautiful baby... I have very little time to get grossed out about it... I still have to hug her all the time...I still have to smile at her and tell her she is beautiful and I still have to build her up I cannot afford to spend time being upset about how I feel...that does her no good.... .........I have to get over my wanting to KILL her for hurting her brother if she really did.... I have to get over being completely horrified that my husband has to deal with these issues... I have to find ways to do the shopping and NOT leave my husband alone with her---but I cannot take her to a store--and most of the sitters I have most often do not want to deal with these issues either.... They all have children too.... It is hard to shop at midnight and not very safe to do so... It is disgusting to change a 3 year olds diaper--and think I don't want to train him for fear of him being molested. But nonw of these feelings help HER. Pin bells on the back of their clothes that way you know where they are.... Eleminate all nudity in your household...no dressing together everyone in the bathroom alone... no one can walk out without being comepletely dressed. Use sleepers and put them on backward and safety pin the zipper up so that they cannot undress.... and Do not change baby diapers in front of sexually abused children....Check you bookshelves and make sure there are no MEdical books those are interesting to sexually aboused children... Remove every TV from your house and never let your children watch anything except videos... ...........I am sorry I hurt your feelings and didn't mean too. I do understand what you are dealing with and I don't have a great deal of advice other then the fact it won't go away because we hope it will.... The only thing we can do is our very best... and pray that these children make it to adult hood without anything horrible happening. I actually felt your message was very angry toward DHS and that you wanted to sue them for putting your family at risk.... I just found that to an odd feeling because 'their' children are often risks... ....... I am not an enemy I am someone who is living with it every single day...never knowing when the phone will ring--and someone's mother tells me what happened to their child.... Peace and please know that I am on your side.

Love, I'm sorry you are feeling this way, however, I also do not see that Anna was attacking your or "dis'ing" you. You asked for, "a voice of reason" and Anna gave you that. She also said she understood how you feel disgusted by their behavior. There is NOTHING wrong with reexamining your family and deciding exactly which behaviors you don't want to deal with! When you get a call to take in a child with behaviors on that list, you say no! You make some pretty strong comments in your post, you said, "I feel disgusted" - of course you do! These children sound like they were sexually abused, who wouldn't be disgusted? How can you be disgusted with them though? They are only behaving how they think it's normal to behave? You disgust should be aimed at the abuser, not the children. You also said, "C keeps asking for hugs now, and I don't want to give him any... I don't want him to touch me again. I feel so used and even molested, such a disgusting feeling... I don't know that I feel safe with these boys any more." I'm sorry but in MHO if you don't feel you want to give kids hugs, don't want them to touch you, feel used and molested by them - they should NOT be with you. You also said, "these kids are not normal." That's really NOT a nice thing to say! I hope they're not picking up on that attitude. As foster parents it's our job to teach them the things they haven't been taught. Most children that come into care aren't from the best of environments and are socially behind. My biological sons both did the same type of kissing with moving their mouths. I taught them they don't do that to me or anyone else. Only Mommy's and Daddy's do that with each other, not with kids. They eventually learned it. I am a foster parent and I have had to have children moved for behaviors I just could not deal with. It is heartbreaking but I have learned my limits and now will not accept a placement of a child that has the behaviors I have identified. I'm sorry if you don't feel that you're receiving support. Sometimes support comes in different ways. I believe Anna was being straight forward with you to have you analyze the situation and examine whether you will be comfortable continuing to parent these boys feeling the way you posted you do. Speaking for myself, I found your post to be harsh towards the kids. I understand you don't like this behavior but you posted some very harsh comments towards them and I (only going by the words in your post) feel they would be better off with parents who will feel less disgusted by them. Best of luck. I know making the decision to move a child or children is not an easy one. It has made me feel like less of a mother and I don't like knowing that there are things that I, as a person who adores children, just cannot accept in their behaviors. Michelle

I always give the advice NOT to take children older than the children already in the home, for the simple reason that you never know what behaviors or issues the new children might have. It may mean that you wait in between placements, but it's better to wait than have more victims of abuse! I know the waiting for a new child is hard, but it's only fair to the children already in the home to be protected. Moving fc for the safety of the existing children is damaging to them. We've been fostering for almost 7 yrs and have had one child moved for the same reasons that you're stating here. We've had to turn away many wonderful sounding children simply bc we couldn't risk our already-here children. I hope you find a really good therapist who has experience with the behaviors your children have.

I couldn't agree more. My daughter has very sexualized behaviors. And I am totally grossed out and disgusted by it. But not by her behaviors. What disgust me is that an adult would do that to an innocent child. I don't at all understand how you can feel moested by these behaviors. These are two little children simply reinacting what other adults have taught them. So, here are techniques I use to cope: We do not give kisses on the mouth. Only cheek kisses. No one is allowed in anyone else's bedrooms. Doors are always closed when changing clothes. We do lots and lots of non sexual snuggling to teach that touch isn't always sexual. My daughter is not left alone with any male. I also agree you were quite harsh in your original post. I feel that you jumped on Anna for doing just what you asked for and she has a great deal of experience with exactly what you are questioning. If you truly feel disgusted by these children, you should have them moved. But, somebody has to teach them appropriate behaviors. Maybe God has chosen you for that task.

I was a fostor child for much of my teen life, thank God, I was blessed with a family that understood that there are children out there that were treated badly, and just needed love. I read your post and it seriously upset me. I have 3 children myself. My daughter who is 3 is always hugging on me. Something I did not get as a child. The way you stated molesting you?! Believe me from someone who was abused as a child that is not what those poor little boys were doing. Someone has hurt those babies, and it is no fault of their own. I agree with some of the other posts, that they need to be shown the correct way to give affection. But, don't blame them. Don't treat them like there is something wrong with them. That will damage them more than you can possibly imagine. IF it is something you feel you can not handle, I would say move the children to someone who is capable in helping these poor babies to get past it all. Don't shun them, or lock them up. I can NOT explain to you how much you are harming them. I know!!!

This is suppose to be support. I understand how the behavior can gross one out. I remember the first time a kid grabbed me. I was shocked as it caught me off guard. It was hard to approach that child again until I had a chance to clear my head and process the incident. Then I could deal with the child, teach them the correct way to use affection, and be in charge of hugging etc until they were able to handle it. Feelings are what they are and telling someone they're wrong for a feeling is just nuts. Also, this mom called the CW for appropriate direction and took charge of the situation. She vented here.

thank you Anna. I appreciate your honesty. I needed hear that. It means alot to me. I was very angry this morning. I did feel "dirty" Feelings come and they go and they change. I have given hugs all day, thanks to Lucy... I need help to over come these things. From day one, I said "no sexual abused children" I knew that was something I did not want to handle. I don't know how to handle it. But the day has come, ready or not, I have to learn how. How to not further shame the children. How to feel my own "disgust" and get over it. I have gotten mad at children from day one of fostering, but you know what, I have learned what to expect and not let it get to me any more. I have never been a parent and was not parented very well as a child. But, I know how to ask for help. I know how to read, I know how to learn and grow. I now know that kids need more love then hard rules. I am a very loving person... but I did feel volated... and I am sorry that offended you all. I don't blame the children, how in the world can I. This thing really scared me. I want to foster more than I want to be mad, or disgusted, or whatever. Fostering is so important to me. I want to love children. I really do, I work hard, I try hard. I even felt bad all day for saying those things to Anna. but, what came across was like adding insult to injury. I am sorry that any child has been damaged to this point. I am sorry Anna, will you forgive me.... I believe that our lives are composed of what we think... we are what we think... The thought process is what gets us through stuff. It is all in the way we look at a situation. As Dr. Phil calls it, "the inner dialog" That is what is meant, how do you do it every day, with all the embarressment, and worry to protect the other children, what are the thoughts that keep you going. I want to do a good job with the boys, honestly, I want to grow through this experience. I want to be one of those foster parents like Anna--- I look at and say, how do they do it? I don't want to move them. They have had enough already. And, really, they have been here so long already, it just seems there is a trust and bond, or friendship begun with them, I can't see just shipping them off. You asked if I was interested in adopting them. Well, I have considered it many times. I really like the boys, but the family is strong in reunifacation. Mom is off drugs, in her program. Dad is doing all his stuff and Grandma's homestudy is approved. We are only waiting for m and d to move out of gm's house so the kids can move in. Peace...

thank you Lucy... I really appreciate the support.

Of course I forgive -- well I don't even think it is forgive because I don't feel that your feelings were not valid and I don't feel getting them out is wrong... and I too have said and written things I wished I hadn't....I cannot imagine how other families or families in the past were able to deal with the things we do without a fourm like this! I am sometimes a litlle too blunt and I hope you forgive me for that too. I don't think there are too many of us who want to deal with the sexually abused children...the sad fact is that in all walks of life so many children are sexually abused. That was the one issue we wanted to avoid also... I have not met one of us who wanted to do this work.... I think that sometimes on these threads we do work out our inner feelings...and are able to come to terms with so many things just by the diversity of input we can recieve here.... I am very glad to hear your latest posts -- and of course I have no hard feelings and I hope you don't either.... :)

you asked That is what is meant, how do you do it every day, with all the embarressment, and worry to protect the other children, what are the thoughts that keep you going.

I wanted to answer this question.... ....it has not been easy--those on this site who have seen some of my posts and other issues know that I too have my days....we all have hard days and we all spend time sorting out our feelings... Sometimes I have asked a question here or to my mom, or from the teacher....and NOT liked the answers I got.... and not known how to deal with them. some days are really really blue.... Yesterday was one of those for me and it is so hard to hear another mother tell me her child has suffered and has learned something from my child...So far I can only believe that God has been in charge and that my daughter had this conversation with someone who was brave enough to talk directly to me.... and someone who has the attitude that it "takes a village" thank goodness for liberals on some days... ...but I do feel the embarrassment. Especially in situations wher others do not know the situation. I guess the only way I can deal with this is tohold my head up and keep my faith that this is the cross I am to bare...and that I believe I will never be given anything I am not able to handle.... So if this is what I am faced with the I guess I have been trusted to handle it...? I think that I have coped the very best with the sexualized behaviors by trying not to hide them from the people who will undoubtable see them... I have also made sure to be very careful to make sure the schools, teachers, doctors and everyone knows the issue...and documented things so that we can show we have done our very best... As for protecting her little brother---this is the hardest thing for me... It does feel horrible to suspect or think your child has hurt or could hurt her brother....it feels terrible when I am thinking something may have happened...or looking for signs or thinking his problems may be due to her.... I do not like this feeling... I am not used to hovering and watching like a hawk--but over time it has become a little easier...or a little more normal. One thing I have noticed is that there are many people who are able to be supportive--knowing the whole situation simply out of respect for all the difference families like ours try to make.... And I will also say something that might get me into trouble here but, I do not have the same kind of shame or embarrassment I had with my bio children when they did something terrible.... It is hard to put into words but the best way I can say it is that I do not feel responsible for the damage done to these children before I became thier mother.... People who know we adopted do not hold the same judgements as they do about the bios.... I know this is somewhat sad sounding but even with my love being the same for all four of my children--I feel that my role is just a little different with these two...I want the same things for them but the flaws and the differences and the personalities and the beautiful brown eyes are Not my Fault....and in a sad way that helps me during the bad times. I carried a business card for a long time and handed it to strangers who looked at us funny...... Just said I have only been daughter mother for a short time....she is a special child with special needs...if you questions call....Now I carry a large supply of the Therapists Business cards and she will talk to people who have problems if it is a hard day for me....

Anna, Thanks for all your help. I think were I was going wrong, I just forgot these little guy are innocent children. They have been hurt and they are trying to tell me what happened the only way they know how. I can understand you not feeling responsible for their behaviors. I felt responsible for a long time, but, I can't help what mystery of their life has brought them to me and caused the behaviors. We had a good day today. I stayed home from church and took a nap. The boys went with DH. Thank you for all your help. I guess I did not realize you have been dealing with so much. I did not realize your daily struggles, I miss judged you. I think you are right though, God does not give us more than we can handle. So that means God must have a lot of faith in you. I know she does not know how blessed she is to have a selfless mom like you. Thou, I do hope a pray that someday she will see and know just how fortuanate she is, how blessed she is to have a mom who is mature enough to love her for better or worse. Thanks again anna....