8 y/o continues to lie

Lie back. Tell her your going to play a game. Then don't. When she asks about it say, "Oh, I lied. No big deal, right?" Or, ask her if she wants ice cream. Then don't give her any. "Oh, sorry, I assumed you were lying again." The other option is to simply never believe anything she says. "Oh honey, I'd like to believe that but you usually don't tell the truth. Sorry." Or "I'm sorry, I'd love to let you go play as Susies, but I'm not able to trust you so it wouldn't be safe." Is this new behavior? Are there other issues? Was this child adopted at an older age? Does she have trauma issues that haven't been addressed? Finding the cause of her need to lie might help stop the problem. Kids in this age range tell stories quite often. But peeing outside seems extreme for a girl that age(for boys-well, peeing is another issue).

Does she only lie about peeing? If so, it may be that she is just plain embarrassed. Maybe she can't hold her urine. Physically, there could be issues - UTI, small bladder, irritation from laundry detergent, soap, etc. Physcologially, there could be other issues - possible sexual abuse - past or present, trauma, stress. My son is younger (5), but when he has HUGE changes and/or transitions, he can't bring himself to go to the bathroom. He doesn't 'allow' himself to recognize the 'I gotta go' feeling. He will wet the bed. And sometimes wet his pants during the day. September/Back to School brings this on. Last year it lasted about 2-3 months. And right on schedule, it's back this year. He's wet at night for probably 10 or 12 out of 14 of the last nights. Could this be it? Big transiton?

She does not only lie about peeing. She lies even about incidental matters. The peeing issue comes and goes. She will be fine for 2-3 months and then she will just go. At times, she says she just doesn't want to take the time to go on the toilet, she wants to continue playing eventhough play-time is taken away for such behavior. She was adopted at the age of 7, so I'm not sure what her past has to tell. Her brother (bio to her), adopted at 5, seems unaffected by any of this.

It looks as if she's been with you about a year, right? Could she be testing? My son tests in July. That is when he joined me to become a family. He's also testing right now. I had surgery last year at this time, so he didn't see me for 4 days. He's terrified that may happen again. I guess, I'm not really helping you any, just trying to figure it out. Well, one thing I've learned - what they say in AA also applies to my son - one day at a time. I try not to dwell on yesterdays problems and rejoice in todays small victories.

Thank you for your concern and insight. I have thought about her just testing us, but I'm very frustrated and at a loss of showing her our love. To us we know she has nothing to worry about, but how do we get that through to her. Appreciate your response.

I will agree, it is very frustrating. I'm at a little advantage, my son was younger, and a little more resilient. But, it still takes alot of hard work. All I can say is be there. Keep her near you physically. Reassure her often. Hugs and kisses for no reason. Real tight hugs. Always make eye contact with her when speaking to her. Play with her. Take up an activity that you can do together. It's so hard to get them to understand what forever really means. To understand what LOVE really means. And they understand actions more than they do the words. They've probably heard the words before and still be hurt, so the words don't carry a lot of weight. Maybe try some bonding and attachment techniques. Play therapy or Theraplay - there are various methods and techniques.

Zippy,Three of my 4 children that were adopted at 5,7 & 9 ALL lied constantly. (They stole as well but that's a whole different thread!) I truly believe it was to test us. It was frustrating and honestly, they still tell a lie or two now (4 yrs. later) but not as much. It drove me nuts! If I found something broken or a wall drawn on or nail polish all over, I would say "Who did this?" and the answer was always four "Not me's!" My youngest daughter also peed her pants outside but I think she just got so involved in playing that she would wait too long. If she's not wetting the bed (which my 9 yr old did faithfully each night) than maybe she's just putting it off too long. Maybe call her in every half hour or so and tell her to go to the bathroom. She's probably lying cause she's embarrassed. Now, can you tell me how to get my 9 yr old to stop sucking her thumb constantly and rubbing her wrist till it gets this huge black callous on it?? Drives me nuts! They all seem to have some "weird" behaviors and I guess we just have to assume that by the time they're like 16 yours won't be peeing her pants and mine will stop sucking her thumb! LOL!Diana(Mom to Jermaine, Jhalonda, Jazz, Tahira, Josh, Jen, Antoine & Anthony)

8isenough, God bless you, 8 children, how wonderful. You must have the patience of a saint! I understand the frustration of the thumb sucking the rubbing the wrist, but I worry about the lying, cause I know where it can lead to if it continues into the older age. Dishonesty is a disease that can feed off itself and I worry. I am trying out the, "if you lie, then we cannot decipher whether anything you say is the truth". Therefore, when she ask for something, she may not get what she ask for. My sister-in-law sucked her thumb until she was 10 yo, now her 8 yo is still sucking her thumb. She believes it is something that will go away. It did for her. I would maybe recommend putting a mild hot sauce on her thumb while she sleeps, or a nail biter stopper, but I'm sure you've tried that. Thanks for the advice.

The lying can be frustrating. When we went to our pre-adoption classes, they did tell us that it was quite common for older adopted children to lie and steal. I'm not sure "why" they do it but it seems to be a common thread with this type of adoption. I do think this too will pass with time but I know how you feel. It sort of made it hard to bond with the kids when they were constantly lying even after I had heart-to-heart talks with them about how they could trust me to tell the truth and they seemed to understand. But then 2 minutes later they'd lie about something again! I think all these behaviors are what sets adoptive parents apart from other parents. We don't deal with the "norms". We have the unusual to bizarre behaviors to deal with and sometimes we have to muddle through on our own. That's why these boards are great. We find we're not alone. My best advice regarding the lying is to be consistant in whatever punishment, etc. that you decide on. My kids thrived with consistancy which is what these kids all lack. It makes them feel secure.Diana

Diana, Thank you, well said. It is just what I needed to hear to get me through another day. One day at a time, child by child! We shall prevail!

My adoption classes explained that lying and stealing with older children is an expression of trying to gain control of their situation. They do not trust you right away, and feel that they have to take care of themselves, and control their life, as they don't thoroughly trust you to do it for them yet. Just food for thought. I thought that was interesting, anyway. :-D

I so agree with what the reasons are, but here is a silly question. On the average, how long does it take to gain an 8 y/o trust? I'm sure it depends on their past, only it is very trying and sad!

Yeah, Zippy. I wish I could give you an answer on that. But as you said, it does depend upon past circumstances, plus the makeup of the child him/her self. Some children don't even continue the behavior a week after coming into a good home, and then others keep going, even after the trust issue is gone, because they want the attention, because the never got attention before. My sister is a chronic liar. She's now 33. WHERE my parents went wrong? I do NOT know. The only thing that I know is that the minute a spotlight shines off of her, she'll do something big to get it back on her, but my family is finally starting to believe me about this and are just not paying her any mind right now, and it seems to be working. Lying can be so many things...from innocent babbling to the early signs of mental disorder, so you are very wise to ask questions and point it out. Keep us posted for sure! :)

I have to suggest the possibility of RAD, especially because it is an older child.....please visit [url]www.radzebra.com[/url] and check it out. This is DEFINATELY an attachment issue BLAZING RED FLAGS all over what you have described. Intense therapy with no time to lose will be needed by an "attachment therapist" the website will give you a list of them that are reccomended

I have the same issue with my 8 year old daughter. She constantly lies and is very sneaky. She also wets her pants sometimes when she is outside playing or is having fun. I do believe that it is because she is having fun and doesn't want to take anytime out to use the restroom.