New Here and Needing Advice

"but you don't b-mom to think she has control over your actions with your son." I think maybe that's the core of this problem. But, we're only talking about a picture with his siblings, right? He's a baby, right? Or a toddler? What could or would the bio mom say or do - tell him that she's his mother too, or????

If you aren't comfortable, don't do it. I do find the whole thing about her contesting a little strange....unless of course it is not finalized. If a photo op is going to cause her to contest, my advice would be to prepare for her to contest. If THAT is going to be enough, I doubt she truly wants that child with you. Just my thoughts. Leigh

If the papers are already signed and it wasn't contested already, I doubt she has a case. Consult an attorney rather than child services.

It's not that I have a problem with his brothers being in a photo with him, I have taken several of them together. It's the fact that I said no- to her being in the pictures with them, and her going to Child and Family and boo hooing about it, and them telling me I had to do this. What my question is this- in an open adoption (which in our case his bio mom doesn't want and never has wanted anything to do with our son) What rights do we as his Leagal Parents do we have- when everytime we say no to something she turns around and goes to Family Serives and raises cane about it- until they agree. How much right does she have to our son when she signed off all rights to him before we adopted him?

Betheny, If her parental rights are completely terminated - including any waiting period - then she has no 'rights' to your son. In the eyes of the court she has no legal relationship to him. This is regardless of your status on finalization. Now if you are adopting through CFS, and the adoption is not yet finalized, then they do indeed have a say in what happens b/c your child is still under their jurisdiction. For the sake of your children and your family, I would highly recommend you all seek counseling and mediation. Remember, this spills over onto all your children and does affect them deeply. Becuase honestly, I'm concerned about how your animosity towards her is affecting the situation. Remember, not everyone grieves the same way. It's not at all uncommon for a birth parent to appear indifferent or disinterested in a child they placed or who was removed from their care. It's a coping mechanism. So please don't feel threatened or offended, because it's less about you and more about her. JMHO Regina

Okay, if the adoption is final, I do not think that she has ANY legal rights, UNLESS, you are in a state in which open adoptions are legal. Something isn't making sense to me here, but, I admit I don't know much about this particular part of adoption. If your son is legally adopted, why can Family Services tell you what to do? I seriously doubt that they have any right to tell you what to do, except if you were harming a child - maybe I am wrong? Adoption means the biological parent signs away ALL legal rights. Maybe you need to sit down with the bio mom and tell her that you do not appreciate her going to Social Services. Plus, it might not hurt to get it straight with her that she now has no legal rights and tell her that her going whining to Social Services will just make things worse. The two of you need to find a way to get along I think and work out issues as they arise. As for the photo, what possible harm could there be? Is it a territorial/control issue? She sounds like a very troubled person; I guess I feel sorry for her and think it would be kind to allow her such a small gesture. I am just curious, do you know why she has no interest in just the one child? Seems sorta odd.

[QUOTE]Remember, not everyone grieves the same way. It's not at all uncommon for a birth parent to appear indifferent or disinterested in a child they placed or who was removed from their care. It's a coping mechanism. So please don't feel threatened or offended, because it's less about you and more about her. [QUOTE] I think everything Regina just said makes a great deal of sense. It does make perfect sense that maybe the birth mom is trying to "disconnect" from the child as a way to cope. May be the only way she knows how to survive. Too bad though for the child's sake. Is family counseling a possibility? I think it could really help to get this situation on track - and possibly help you know how to deal with similiar issues in the future?

Sorry - I did not realize that the photos were to include her - thought that you meant just the siblings. Sounds like she needs someone to help her sort our her feelings about your son and what is reasonable to ask of you. Good luck, Happy G'Ma

We have asked the birthparents of our child to be in pictures with him and have actually paid for them. I want our son to know that his birthparents love and care about him. We have had them taken each birthparent separately with our son and also together. We even have one with the birthfather (our nephew) with my DH and myself and our son. I don't really see a problem with her being in the photo, except that it may be triggering something deep down in you. As long as you're there during the pictures to monitor the situation, what could it hurt? Looking back, from the future, wouldn't you want your son to know that she cared enough to include him in the family picture? In the beginning of our adoption, I had to look long and hard as to what is better for my son versus what is my insecurities and then choose what I thought was best for my son and I had to be really honest with myself because I was very insecure in the beginning. I am now a lot more comfortable and glad that I made what I felt was the correct decisions for our son.

I've only just read through this thread ... ultimately you should do what you feel is best but would it really hurt for your child to be in a pic with bmum's other children? I'm not saying you're wrong just it would keep her happy so if you compromise now you have room to expect her to compromise in return. Difficult situation as you just want to have a happy family life, good luck whatever you decide. Pip :flower:

Bethany ~ I won't get into what my thoughts are as to whether or not you should do the pictures. I just think it's really important that you get a good attorney that can let you know clearly what your rights are. The idea of bringing you back to court and contesting the adoption - this is something you really need to know what is true or not about! Seems odd to me that Family Services could get involved at all if the birthmother has signed over her rights and you guys have adopted this child. But no matter, it's really important for you all to be clear about what your rights are. There may be other things that come up in the future...always best to know what everyone's real rights are. Of course even if she has no rights whatsoever then you could always allow pictures (or whatever it happens to be). But I think that's a different issue. My concern here would be Family Services coming in and telling you what you should or shouldn't do and whether or not they have any rights to be doing that. The whole threat of contesting an adoption is just so not cool.

Now I am not sure if you have an open adoption agreement or not, however they are legal in New York (I looked at your bio here and see that is where you are from) but it does not give the biomom any rights at this point. She can contact family services all she wants, but if all papers are signed tough nuggys! I have a legally binding open adoption and went through some things with our bio-mom also and we finally stated that before we would even allow visits again there needed to be some counseling for her. Once she went to counseling and we spoke with her counselor (not everthing was being told honestly) then things were fine. Good luck to you and remember you are the childs mother and have every right to say when, where and why involving your child. Cooperative Adoptions: Contact Between Adoptive and Birth Families After Finalization Cooperative adoption or adoption with contact are terms that refer to arrangements that allow some kind of contact between adoptive families and members of the adopted child's birth family after the adoption has been finalized. These arrangements can range from informal, mutual understandings between the birth and adoptive families, to written, formal contracts. The written agreements specify type and frequency of contact and are signed by the parties to an adoption prior to finalization. The modes of contact can range from an exchange of information about the child between adoptive and birth parents; to the exchange of cards, letters, and photos; to actual personal visits with the child by birth family members. Adoption with contact agreements have become more prevalent in the last decade. Growth is due to many factors, the most significant being that the majority of adoptions in the U.S. today are non-infant adoptions. Adoptions more typically involve older children, such as stepchildren and children adopted from foster care. These children, because of their age, frequently have attachments to one or more birth relatives that would be in some way beneficial for them to maintain. In addition, contact with birth relatives can be an ongoing resource to the adoptive parents for information about the child's medical, social, and cultural history.1 In general, the law does not prohibit post-adoption contact. Since adoptive parents have the right to decide who may have contact with their adopted child, they can allow any amount of contact with birth family members they choose, and such contacts are often arranged by mutual understanding without any formal agreement.2 However, many adoption professionals feel that a written contractual agreement3 between the parties to an adoption can clarify the modes and frequency of contact and thereby minimize conflicts. In the absence of statutory guidance, however, problems have arisen. Unless sanctioned by law, agreements for post-adoption contact are purely voluntary and typically cannot be enforced in court. There is also some concern that the existence of an agreement might be used as grounds to set aside an adoption in the belief that an agreement for post-adoption contact is inconsistent with the severance of all rights of the birth parents that is the traditional consequence of relinquishment for adoption.4 Increasingly, adoption professionals have looked to State legislatures to provide the legislative mechanisms for drafting and enforcing post-adoption agreements. Guidelines for Legislation The issue of adoption with contact was addressed in 19995 by a group of experts convened by the Children's Bureau of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. In their publication, Guidelines for Public Policy and State Legislation Governing Permanence for Children, the experts recommended that States adopt legislation allowing adoption with contact agreements that included these key provisions: Adoption is irrevocable, and the birth parent's voluntary relinquishment may not be set aside, even if the post-adoption agreement is modified, set aside, or parties fail to comply. The court may approve the agreement only if all parties, including a child over the age of 12, agree on its provisions, and the court finds the agreement is in the best interests of the child. The court may approve post-adoption contact ranging from occasional exchanges of cards, photographs and information to regular personal visits, in whatever level of detail the parties agree to and the court deems appropriate. Any party to the agreement may petition the court to modify the agreement, order compliance, or to void the agreement. The court may order compliance, modify, or void the agreement only if the parties agree or circumstances have changed, and any action is in the best interests of the child. Statutes Permitting Enforceable Contracts Approximately6 18 States (Arizona, California, Connecticut, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, and West Virginia) currently have legislation allowing written and enforceable adoption with contact agreements. In many of these States, the statutes incorporate the substance of the language recommended by the Guidelines, while in other States (notably New York and South Dakota),7 provisions pertaining to the contents and enforcement of the agreements are not specified. In most of these States, an agreement for adoption with contact can potentially be permitted for any adoptive child as long as the type and frequency of contact is deemed to be in the child's best interests. Some States, such as Connecticut, Nebraska, and New York, limit the application of agreements to children in foster care. Indiana limits enforceable contact agreements to children ages two and older. For children under age two, non-enforceable agreements are permitted as long as the type of contact does not include visitation. Most statutes permit post-adoption contact for birth parents; however, some States also allow other birth relatives, including grandparents, aunts, uncles or siblings, who have significant emotional ties to the child, to be included in the agreement. Minnesota permits foster parents to petition for contact privileges; for Indian children, members of the child's tribe are included among the eligible birth relatives. California, Indiana, Maryland, and Massachusetts have separate provisions for sibling visitation. All parties wishing to be included in the agreements must agree in writing to all terms, which in most States are subject to court approval. Disputes over compliance and requests for modification of the terms must also be brought before the court. Five States, Arizona, Connecticut, Louisiana, Minnesota, and Oregon, require parties to participate in mediation before petitions are brought before the court. In no case can disputes over the post-adoption agreement be used as grounds for setting aside an adoption or relinquishment of parental rights.

Thank you, this is what I needed. She doesn't want anything to do with our son- which is fine, and he does have a bond with his older brother which I would never come in between of. I encourage it, but at HER request they only know eachother as cousins not brothers. And there is nothing in writting that contains to the birth parents for any thing. (visits, pictures, nothing)

They think they are cousins? Who does she plan to say she is? His Aunt? This sounds like a strange open adoption to me. I myself do not know much about open adoption since we are doing foster to adopt... but I will say this all sounds a bit strange.

This is only my opinion, but I would not lie to my son or let a lie be perpetrated by another. How will you explain the lie it to him when he does find out that he has a brother because, at some point it will probably come out, whether in childhood or adulthood.