What rights do G-parents have in PA?

I thought the Supreme Court passed a recent law that grandparents don't have any rights to their grandchildren. I actually heard this on Judge Judy, lol Can anyone verify?

I got this off of one of my many legal sites for you. [FONT=Arial]Grandparents' Visitation and Custody Rights in Pennsylvania

[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Currently, Pennsylvania recognizes the rights of grandparents to seek visitation, partial physical custody, or primary physical custody of their minor grandchild or grandchildren. The grandparents must prove that the requested custody would be in the best interests of the minor grandchild or grandkids and would not interfere with the relationship between the parent and the minor child.

One of the most recent cases involving grandparents' rights evolved through the Armstrong County Court of Common Pleas. In the case of K.B., II, K.B. and B.B. v. C.B.F., the Armstrong County trial court awarded primary physical custody of a minor child to his paternal grandparents even though the court found the child's mother to be a fit parent. Attorney Vari was retained to represent the mother in her appeal to the Pennsylvania Superior Court. In the case argued before the Pennsylvania Superior Court, Attorney Vari argued that only if a parent is declared to be unfit should grandparents have the right to seek primary physical custody of their minor grandchildren. While Attorney Vari was successful in having mother's primary custody rights restored, the Superior Court of Pennsylvania held based upon Pennsylvania Supreme Court precedent that grandparents have the right to sue parents for primary physical custody of their grandchildren even if the parents are deemed to be fit parents. On January 2, 2004, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court agreed to review the Superior Court's ruling on the K.B., II, K.B. and B.B. v. C.B.F. case. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has not yet entered its decision on the case.

After the United States Supreme Court case of Troxel v. Granville was decided, some parents and their attorneys have argued that it is unconstitutional for a state court to award even partial custody or visitation to grandparents if the parent disagrees with the grandparents' request for partial custody or visitation. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has not yet had the opportunity to review whether Pennsylvania's grandparent visitation statutes are constitutional in light of the Troxel case; however, the Pennsylvania Superior Court has held that the visitation statutes are constitutional. [/FONT]

That is disturbing that even though the mother was a fit parent - the paternal grandparents still received custody.

As a kid who's grandparents sued her parents, I'm sorry you're dealing this. My biological paternal grandparents sued my mom and adoptive dad. This was in the 70's. First, you have some time to "work" on your mother. GEt her books, articles and the like about attachment methods, it's important that she know where you're coming from. And then take a deep breath, your child's attachment will not be destroyed by reading a book or two with grandma every other week etc. Now if she wants to come over everyday, feed baby, change all the diapers when she's there, put baby down for naps, cut you off at the pass when baby cries and tries to comfort baby instead of you comforting baby... well that's a whole different deal. My MIL would have been here everyday doing the mothering if she could. She didn't see it that way, she saw it as her chance to relieve me and give me a break, she had waited a long time to be grandma and was going to take any chance she could get, and she was sure that babe needed to be held by lots of people to become comfortable with lots of people. (that last bit was hooey, babe's temperment was set from day one, bashful from the get go) She tried to respect us when we explained that the care would come from us, but she didn't understand it... it's as if a bottle fed baby is fair game to other women, and up for grabs, whereas her other grandbaby (a biological baby by the way) was breast fed and off limits for feeding so she didn't interfere. In my case she'd litterally be leaning over me to get her face between me and babe while I gave babe a bottle. (I'd leave the room to feed babe because of this and she'd follow me, she wouldn't do that with her other grandchild) I get the feeling she felt she had to hyper imprint herself onto our babe because there was no biological connection, ignoring of course that we needed to attach to babe. I'm sorry if this is so long, I just really feel for you. I had serious issues with my MIL because of the what my own grandparents did.

I have been the parent sued by a grandparent. I'll PM you with some info.Troxel vs. Granville did help - but it didn't totally put the nail in it.Yes - it's like in a divorce, except the orders would designate holidays, birthdays, monthly or even weekly visits were she to win... and you don't have to be divorced necessarily. Some states allow a GP to sue an intact family. Look for a PM. It IS a nightmare. If you think she's serious, brace yourself and lawyer up NOW.

I a small way you were lucky, why? I have heard amom's on another board complain when the "grandparent" refused to treat the adopted baby like a grandchild. Or made more fuss over bio grands.. I can understand needing bonding time of several weeks, but months? I suppose this depends on the age of the baby when brought home. The baby's temperment, or the amount of time in an orphange. I have heard that some babys don't bond ever.. others right away, some it does take awhile. Good luck to all.

Having survived it, I can tell you there is NOTHING good that comes from grandparent visitation laws. There is nothing lucky about it. It is a complete and utter devastating nightmare, regardless of how your children enter the family. More than a few families have become broken families because of being sued by grandparents. Better to have them treat the children differently than to have them utterly destroy your family altogether.

I agree with your last statment entirely. I can't imagine suing a adult child just to see your grand child. But then I can't imagine doing anything to get in that position either. I am raising a grandchild. She is now 17. It wasn't my choice to raise her, it just happened. Started out my being the free baby sitter. Then my unmarried daughter not picking her up on time, or calling and saying she couldn't get here. Yes, drugs had something to do with it. I didn't know that in the beginning. So in the end, the child's father, who didn't want to raise her and would have sent her to his parents if that was needed. He prefered she stay with me. No custody agreement, I get the child support, but not until after I complained. My daughter was living off the support and we were raising the child, since she was a baby. As I said, it started out my just wanting to help my daughter. I just wanted my daughter to never have to worry about who was caring for her child. It took me a long time to realize that is was permanent. We also had custody of another child for 4 years. When her mom got her life together, went though rehab, started college, that child went home to mommy. That has turned out great. We are proud of her and how it has all worked out. I married at 17, I expected to be done and still be young, I didn't expect to be raising kids at 58.

It would have hurt deeply if my MIL had been apathetic to our child, no doubt. For her love and support I'm grateful. She does tend to put herself first a little too often, but no matter how much she bugs me, I know she's loving and she's not a jerk. My grandparents on the other hand put themselves first ALWAYS and everything was about them as far as they were concerned, and in the end they were jerks. " I can tell you there is NOTHING good that comes from grandparent visitation laws" I hear ya! As far as my MIL desrupting our attachment, she could have if she'd been allowed to do all the things she wanted... which was basically everything if was within 30 yards of our child, including talk over me when I was speaking quietly to my baby, or reading a book, anytime (no joke) I began to speak to my child she would interupt and say hey look at the funny thing grandma's doing, waving her arms and making a rucus. It was a constant effort on my part to find the right balance. To the OP, does your mother have any concrete examples of attachment parenting, like sling wearing, only mom and dad doing the feeding etc? Lots of people like to fantasize about it, imagine all sorts of odd things.

I feel badly for not acknowledging Scarlet being a grandmother raising her grandchild when agreeing that nothing good comes from grandparent visitation laws. There are many loving and supportive grandparents now parenting, or co parenting to help, and that deserves acknowledgement. In my case, and I think I can guess in Birth4Mom3's case as well, it was not about loving support, it was about total control devoid of any care for whatever might be good for the core family. And it is very devistating. My parents were very functional hard working people, who were undermined at every turn by my grandparents, and when they had had enough and stopped contact, they were sued. And the courts just loved the nice little white haired folks who looked so kind and non threatening... blah blah blah. Anyhow, kudos to you Scarlet for your loving support.

Baby on me and typing w/ 1 hand, so for now, YES! Totally agree & kudos to Scarlet - a totally different and admirable situation than what the GPV laws represent.

Sorry to get back to this so late. Mom understands that my husband and I need our time to attach with the baby. I've told her about the sling idea, the baby massage idea (suggestion from my agency) possibly co-sleeping (suggestion from my social worker) etc.. I'm not really sure what exactly her problem is with it. She doesn't make much sense, and she starts spouting off about 10 other topics. Attachment and the time needed is different for everyone. My husband and I feel comfortable with 3 months. Our thoughts on this is, a mother carrying her child in her womb has 9 months to feel that baby kick, roll around, etc.. and that child has 9 months to heard his Mama speak everyday. We have none of that. So by asking everyone to kindly respect our wishes for 3 months is not a huge deal in my mind. I've really tried to educate everyone, but I throw my hands in the air with it. Re-explaining myself 20 times is not worth the headache. I've explained to my mom when this whole argument started last week, that I was very tired, worried about the baby, having chest pains, etc. Do you think she cared? No. She kept arguing. She knows she can see the baby anytime (within reason) she wants, when she comes home. But we are not going to drop her off and leave her for hours on end. At this point, I'm unsure on what she is going to do. She told me not to contact her until the day she is allowed to hold the baby. :rolleyes:

That line scares me. Lots of GP's go silent and stop arguing right before the process server shows up. Did you get my PM?:grouphug:

Yes I did get the PM :) Thank you. I have to get time to sit down and read it. I appreciate it, definitely

OK, I'm dying toknow, what othe rpossible topics could she be bringing into the converstaion/arguement? Is it old history between the two of you... does she take this on as your way to punish her for things in the past by denying her her grandchild etc? Just a guess. Sorry, it is the pits to explain things again and again, and that's one of the differences I discovered with adoption. I seemed to get questions a lot more easily than other mothers, as if my lack of pregnancy made me stupid or clueless about what my child needed...That said, every mother gets questioned and has to defend her choices. What exactly does your mom want that is NOT what you want? You said something about dropping baby off.