Adoption and attitudes towards it...

It's nice to hear that people are encouraging pbmoms to consider parenting more strongly. Not all aparents are scared and rash, just like not all bparents are angrry resentful and looking to get their baby back. I have seen THAT too, and from the aparent side, it's easy to see why someone would avoid contact with a bmom who is harmfully negative and actively trying to disrupt the relationship with the aparents.As long as both parties are honest, and well informed I think adoption is wonderful....but as soon as either party starts to become manipulative, or refuses to be educated about the other side of the triad, then it goes bad really fast!

I agree with you on that. Sometimes in my lifetime I actually met adoptive parents that were so wonderful and so supportive of their child wanting to know their bfamily and the people were wonderful parents. If I hadn't seen that occasionally there would have been no way I would have gotten through the 21 years before I met my daughter without going completely crazy. I'm only about half crazy instead. :wink: :) Also about the bparent getting to a point that they are interfering with the child and stuff, they definitely need to let the aparent, parent the child. The bmom being in their lives is one thing, but trying to take control is completely difrferent. But sometimes an aparent might see something that isn't there or that isn't happening and get paranoid from misunderstanding questions, or time the bmom spends with the child or something and then they run away from the bmom without any explaination whatsoever. Leaving her to wonder what the heck happened. The bmom then is left with having deep pain and depression set in as the result of losing her contact with her child. All because she has no right to have it if the aparent just up and decides against it. I just feel if an aparent and bparent go into an adoption as an "open" adoption they should stay with it and the aparent shouldn't be able to break the agreement just because they don't want to share the child anymore. Or the aparent gets upset because the child starts enjoying the visits with their bmom and getting close to her and the aparent gets jealous. I just think that an open adoption should be as enforceable as in a divorce concerning "visitiation". A parent who denies the absent parent visitation with their child can be put in contempt of court. I think if an aparent doesn't hold to the agreement that allowed them to adopt the child in the first place then they should be held in contempt if they don't abide the open adoption with the bmom as long as the bmom wants that vistiation with the child. But if both the aparent and bmom cooperated and did what was best for the child, the child would probably be a very happy well adjusted child in those circumstances. You know? But I do think things have changed since the 70's and that's good to see. I wish I'd had the opportunities in my adoption situation that are out there now. I think that would have helped me so much to deal with the loss of my baby. Rylee

Rylee, I don't know your story or what made you so bitter against adoption but I don't agree with this statement. The child's legal parent (birth or adoptive) should be the one to decide what contact they can have with other people. Only the parent knows how visits and other contact (letters, phone) is effecting their child. If I saw my child having some real emotional, or other problems with the openness of adoption I would definetly end the openness. By agreeing to adopt a child an adoptive parent promises to love and protect the child as their own. This includes cutting off birth parents from the child if any danger emotional or otherwise is present. Birthparents need to understand this when they opt for adoption-They will No Longer be the parent and have any rights to the child. They may never hear from or see the child...EVER! I think this is where many birthparents are failed, no one really explains what this means when they loose their parental rights. However this option is far better for many children rather than talking the birthparents into keeping their child. Some of these children born to unprepared moms that decided against adoption are ending up neglected and abused. Talking a mom out of adoption is just as bad as talking a mother into adoption. There needs to be fair education. If a mother is not ready to parent, adoption is the best option.

I agree with rottymom to the points of a legally enforcable open adoption agreement. I have a very strong reason why. When we first adopted our daughter I spoke with her b-gpa and told him I didn't mind him seeing Savannah and her knowing that he is her grandfather, however, I later found out that he had molested C. and continues to manipulate her. After C. told me this I explained to her that I was not at all comfortable with Savannah being with him. I will NOT allow my child to be exposed to such influences and as a parent it is my responsibility to protect her. How horrific it would have been if I would have had to go to court to ammend an agreement for this situation especially in a legal system that seems to think that DNA determines parenting. That being said - I have a beautiful open relationship with both of my children's birth moms. I love them dearly and pray for their happiness. I continually talk to my children about these ladies and what their role is in our lives. We pray for them - call them on the phone - keep them posted through e-mails and blog postings. I have told them both that I cannot forsee ANY reason at this point that they would not be allowed to be a part of these babies lives, as long as it was healthy emotionally, spiritually and physically. I pray that our relationships will always be as close as they are now - I pray that C. will be there with me to choose Savannah's wedding dress. I pray that A. will be with me when Christopher is preparing for his mission. I pray that they will rejoice with me in our grandchildren. I look forward to years of friendship and sisterhood with these beautiful women and I hope that they will always feel the same.

I understand what you're saying here about "protecting" the child. That's what is supposed to be done with a child whether the natural mother/parents or adoptive mother/parents. What I'm talking about is the idea that an adoptive parent can for no reason whatsoever decide they don't want to share the child with the child's natural mother any longer. My daughter's adoptive mom was not happy about my being in her life but didn't go balistic on me until my daughter and I were together in this woman's home. That's when she couldn't handle it because I was spending to much time with HER daughter. She was angry with me for being there but the worst part for her was that my daughter looked like me acted like me, sounded like me. She was pretty much a "mini-me" and that angered the adoptive mom. This woman had abused my daughter her whole life. She did a whole lot of really bad things to her. The family my daughter was adopted by should NEVER have had the right to adopt a child with the mental illness the adoptive mom suffered along with the adoptive dad who was on depression medication and was abusive to his wife and other kids. He was in jail the week before my daughter was placed due to beating his wife up. These people were not FIT to be parents but me being an "unwed mother" made ME the "unfit parent" in the eyes of the church and the eyes of everyone around me. I would have been a better parent to my daughter than her adoptive parents were to her. The kids I did raise turned out pretty good and none of them ended up worshiping the devil or prostituting themselves or anything else. They aren't perfect but they know they are loved. My daughter never was after she started asking about me when she was little. Her adoptive mom couldn't handle her wanting to know who I was so she didn't treat her very good after that. She was only 5 years old when she started asking questions about me. It's always been about control and that woman wants complete and told control over every action that my daughter makes. My daughter is almost 32 and she is still under that woman's thumb to a point we've had to sneak to talk to each other. If her adoptive mother found out we were talking she'd take my daughter out of her will and that would be that. It's ridiculous! Rottymom, the reason I'm so bitter about adoption is due to the lies the agency told me when I gave my daughter up. They told the same lies to all the girls giving their babies up. They brainwashed me into believing it was the best thing for my daughter. I wanted to keep my baby and they made sure that I didn't get to. Once I was in the program they had in the 70's I was at the mercy of those people. My foster mother wouldn't let me leave her house one day when I told her I was going to go home and was going to keep my baby. She tackled me to the floor when I tried to get out the door and held me there until I agreed to giving the baby up because it would look bad on HER if I were to change my mind. I had to endure things like that throughout my pregnancy. I wasn't allowed to call home to talk to my mother without permisison. I was monitored on all my calls. My foster mother listened in on the extention phone. I couldn't let my boyfriend know where I was and was not allowed to call him either. I was told to change my name while in the foster home. They made me pick a name I wanted to go by. I was forsed to cut my hair short so I wouldn't look like I had with my pretty long hair that I loved. I was forsed to wear a wedding ring so people "wouldn't talk" while my foster mother and I were out at the store or any other public place. I wasn't allowed to read the papers I signed and to this day can't get a copy of the ones I signed. A group of people stood around my bed telling me, "Hurry up and sign the papers honey we have other girls to see today". I was told I could read the papers later. They never gave me a copy of those papers and getting information on my OWN case with the agency had been impossible until I threatened a lawsuit if I didn't get the things in my file after my daughter and I met when she was 21. I still didn't ever get a copy of the papers I signed only a sheet with the paperwork they had for adoption at the time I was requesting the original of what I signed. I also got all the stuff still in the file back. Which included the pictures of me and my other children, letters to her, and a few other things I wanted her to have when she turned 18 years old. The agency has been nothing but abuisve to me and my family. They lied to me about my rights (said I didn't have any at my age of 17) they told me my daughter would be able to get the things in the file that I put there for her to get when she was 18 but that was also a lie. She tried to get infomation and was told they were closed records. Even non identifying information was denied her when she turned 18. I could go on and on but these are some of the reasons I'm so bitter about adoption. I just feel that due to the deceptions of the agencies they don't inform the girls that they are actually signing anything away by having an open adoption. If a girl signs papers for someone to adopt the child under and open adoption situation, she isn't really signing her rights away if the adoption is open. That's my understanding of open adoption. She's just giving custody to another family. I'm sure that's what they are told when they sign papers for open adoption. I believe that these girls are lied to about the way things are in open adoption and believe that they will always have rights to see their child because it is a court thing. Until I read all these other posts on this forum that talk about open adoptions etc I had no idea that an adoptive parent can just up and decide one day without any reason whatsoever that the birth mother can't see their child anymore. Protection is one thing. Protect the child. But to just stop a birth parent from contact for any reason other than provable abuse etc is wrong. I just hate thinking how much a sacrofice for that child that the birth mother made just to be thown out like garbage if the adoptive parents decide they don't want to keep the original agreement in an open adoption any longer. Rylee

What happened to you was absolutely horrid. The majority of adoptions that happen today are nothing like what you experienced. And due to the background checks and homestudy's adoptive parents are subjected to familys like that your biological daugher were placed would never be allowed to by today's standards. That must be very painful to know that. Sometimes it is hard for me to read your posts beause I realize that in general you are opposed to adoption. You have every right to be because of what happened to you. But what happened to you is not the norm, and never will be again as society continues to glamorize and promote single parenthood. Most adoptions happen out of love and out of complete willingness to want a better life for the child. And most adoptive parents make wonderful and outstanding parents because they have yearned for years and years to have a family. We cannot change the past for you, but that doesn't mean that adoption today shouldn't be looked at a reasonable alternative for those dealing with an unwed pregnancy. Really only 1-3% of unwed girls choose adoption and so most are parenting them if they haven't chosen abortion. I do think it's unfair to make a general statement stating that girls today are having the wool pulled over their noses about what they sign, thinking that being in an open adoption is basically akin to not signing TPR. We have an open adoption with our daughters birthmom and she knows very clearly that open adoption isn't joint custody. And it's made very clear to birthmoms in our agency that once they sign that paperwork that all bets are off, and it's up to the adoptive parents to live up to their agreement. Most families live up to their agreement, and once in awhile an unethical couple will come along and outright lie. We don't live in a perfect world and no matter how hard we try, there is always a scum bucket out there that will abuse the system. But we can't judge thousands of wonderful adoptions based on a worm or two in the bucket.

I can appreciate how you can be bitter with all that went on with your adoption experience (I would never presume to say that I understood because I know that I never could) I shudder to know that people were treated such. I am so sorry that your daughter was abused and is still being controlled, I am so sorry that the system let you down with the parents they chose for your daughter and I'm so sorry that your daughter's mom has such insecurities that she can't accept that you exist. Let me tell you the process we went through and hopefully you will understand that things really have changed in the time since your daughter was adopted. We initially met with our case worker and discussed what the process would entail and what would be expected/required of us; we agreed that it was the course we wanted to persue so we were sent home with a bunch of paperwork and were told to get with them when we had the paperwork complete and we would schedule our home visit. The paperwork included a 43 question questionairre that we each had to answer individually - these questions pertained to our physical, emotional, marital and spiritual stability and were essay format. We also had to provide a criminal background check, a financial report, an employer recommendation, 3 personal recommendations and a recommendation from our church leader. We also wrote a "Dear Birthparent" letter and prepared a photo collage. Once all of that paperwork was filed we scheduled a one-on-one interview with the case worker where he went over some of the questions we had answered on the questionairre to be able to guage our verbal answers. Then we scheduled a home visit. The home visit was to make sure that our home was safe - they check to make sure the water is not too hot; that there are adequate working smoke / CO detectors; that there are the appropriate fire escapes from the upstairs; that we had adequate space for a child; that all health hazards were locked up; that our home was clean and livable; that we were comfortable in our home and our home was comfortable for others. After the home visit was complete our case worker then wrote up an overview and we had to be presented to the board for approval. Once we had the approval of the board it was a waiting/praying time. The agency would present our file to birth parents who were considering placing their child. The birth parents chose the parents and to some extent what level of openess was desired. Our agency at the time only handled what they called semi-open where there was no identifying information exchanged but letters and pictures for at least the first three years. Even those policies have changed and my son (who is a year old) came to us through a completely open situation. I was at all of the doctor's visits (at his birthmom's request) and we got together socially as well - and we still do. I was at the hospital when our son was born and she got one "Mommy bracelet" and I got the other which gave me full nursery privledges. We spent the two days that they were in the hospital with her and her family in the room and it never felt uncomfortable because we had 6 months of friendship behind us already. I was in the room (by her choice) when she signed her relinquishment papers, papers that I had read in advance and so had she. They very specifially stated that she was relinquishing any and all rights to her child. Then she also had to go before a judge and sign before a judge that she was agreeing to such a placement and the judge very specifically stated that she understood that she was relinquishing all rights to her child. She then had 10 days to change her mind. Neither of my children's birthmothers went into these adoptions blindly, they were explained fully what the legalities were, they were offered (and have available to them for life) free counseling. We also continued to have six months of supervised custody with home visits before we were allowed to finalize the adoption. Both of my children know their birthmothers and they know how they came to our family (my son is a little young yet but we still talk about it.) They know that they could not grow in my tummy but that they were sent to us by Heavenly Father. They know that they grew in their birthmother's tummy and they both love being with them. I count their birthmothers as my friends and my family. A. is getting married next month and we are planning to be there. I can't wait to spoil her children and be kind of an "auntie" to them. Does fraud still happen? Sure it does - on both sides of the equation. Do things still slip through the cracks? I'm sure that occationally they do but they are the exception, not the rule. Most of the birthmother's I know feel sorrow for the lost opportunity but still feel peace about their decision to place their children. I know many adoptees and have not personally encountered any who were discontent and felt cheated. I know many adoptive couples who feel nothing but blessed by the opportunities to be parents. Most of us still feel some sorrow at lost opportunities, the chance to conceive and bear a child, but that doesn't make the miracle of our families second rate, and it doesn't make the birthmothers any better or worse than we. I have to say that I have great admiration that in such a "throw-away" society for those who choose to give life, and even greater respect for those who try to provide a better life for their child. And still, my children were not a business negotiation, and my hands as a parent should not tied by a court system any more than if I had given birth to them. My lack of ability to conceive does not translate to a lack of ability to parent lovingly, patiently and effectively and I don't need a judge dictating the relationships required in their lives. If I felt that my parents, siblings, friends, cousins -- anybody is a harmful influence on my children I should not have to wait until they are "provably abusive" and have done harm to my child to be able to take the immediate and necessary steps protect them. Should I be held accountable for my actions toward my children? Certainly, just as every parent should. But I don't think that a court system or legal document should dictate it. Once again I'm so sorry that the system failed you and your daughter. I honestly ache inside for you and what it has done to both of you. I wish I could turn the clock back and make certain that your daughter was placed in a home where she was cherished and you were honored because I am sure that there were many many couples back then who would have treasured that opportunity. I pray that you and your daughter can find peace in your relationship and that her mom will come to peace with your role in building her family. I want you to know that I do honor you for choosing life for your daughter and I wish you great happiness.

Actually, what she describes happens all the time today. Granted, the majority of adoptions are not like what this experiences, but todays standards can no more protect a child from abuse than the standards could in the 70's. Few agencies require a full mental health evaluation, and no homestudy process is foolproof. Abuse occurs behind closed doors, and is easy to miss with just a few home visits. For example, a few years ago I, along with several other people, contacted DCFS about abuse that was occurring in a home where the parents had recently finalized the adoption of several older children (they were smart enough to wait to begin physically punishing the children until after that point--though, sadly, the warning signs were there before & I chose to ignore them). The family hired a great lawyer, who had the charges thrown out because I had talked with another one of the witnesses about the case and we had filed the report together (I was young, had no experience dealing with this type of situation, had literally been brainwashed by the adoptive mother into believing that these children were out of control, and even though I finally recognized it was wrong I didn't know what else to do). Not only did the children remain in an abusive household (the parents later moved to a place so isolated that DCFS was not even able to make the advised visits), but they went on to adopt five more children. This by an individual who diagnostically meets the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder, and is an expert on how to beat the system. I work with another birthmother, who also happens to be an adoptee, and now an adoptive parent (relative placement). She was severely abused in her adoptive home, as well as in foster care after being removed from her adoptive home. She has placed two children in an open placement, and the family has respected that. However, had they failed to maintain contact this birthmother would have fallen apart, wondering if her children were being well cared for or if they were abused as she was. Even now her hands are tied, as her son is showing severe symptoms of major depression (not surprising, considering his biological heritage) & the adoptive mother refuses to acknowledge that he needs help. She is now placing a six-year-old daughter with severe special needs in an out-of-home placement, and will not even consider adoption because open adoption contracts are not legally binding & she would have no way of ensuring that her daughter's many needs are met. Adoptive parents DO have the right to ensure that their child's safety is protected. They do have the right to parent their child as they see fit, as long as it is in the best interest of the child. There are ways to go about doing this, while still making a contract legally binding. Yes, it is more work, but it protects the rights of the child to maintain access to their biological heritage. I agree with Rylee, far too many birthparents don't know that the promises that they were made when they chose to place are based on the whims of the adoptive parents. And far too many adoptive parents (mind you, not all, and probably not even a majority, but still too many) do not honor these agreements because of the inconvenience or because of their own insecurities, not because stopping contact is in the best interest of the child. I think we will eventually reach a point where many birthparents refuse to place because of the refusal to acknowledge their rights as a parent (and yes, they are still a parent even if they place--though not in the traditional sense), and where adoptees demands for their rights to know lead to major changes in how adoption is currently practiced. I think we are already seeing some of those changes, with the current trend for open adoption increasing rapidly.