Not Sure What to Do (Long and Venty :) )

Since Brown gave me full permission to answer on her behalf, I will say that yes, she needs a glass of wine :evilgrin: Still doing a good job being your PR person Brown??

I was trying to give you an opinion on how an amom might be feeling. When I used the term disconnect, I didn't even know who, how or why that had happened, so I'm not sure how you read that I thought it was you that was disconnected? I was just saying that she could fear that whatever cause that original disconnect could happen again. Then I also pointed out that she could be HOPING that it would happen again and just go away, so clearly I wasn't trying to imply that the disconnect was all about you. I also specifically said that none of what I was saying should be taken as excuses, cause I didn't think they were. They were some reasons why it could be happening. Right or wrong, there is a reason why this is happening, and I was attempting to give you some feedback on what that might be. Reasons and ideas do not equal excuses. I'm glad you get the only mom thing. I don't think it's right that she would feel that way, BUT if she does, I can also add that there is a good chance that you saying you won't "take" that may not make her less afraid. You mentioned that you've demonstrated that you don't want to take on a motherly role, but sometimes it's not what we see or hear that scares or soothes us, it's what in our heart. Again, I'm trying to support you here. Just because I'm saying that these are things that MIGHT be going, doesn't imply that this is what expected and normal and you should accept it. I didn't and don't mean to imply any of it was acceptable or expected. I'm sorry you read it that way. It might not even be right, it was just food for thought. One and half years is along time, and to have hung in there that long with the amom who's communication skills are severely lacking is a great thing. However in the 12 years prior to that, she might have decided certain things in her mind that are taking longer to set straight. Is that right or okay? No not really...all of it really sucks. Your life, and relationship with your daughter is being put on hold while (at least chances are) your daughters amom works through whatever her issues are. I think this is a situation where it's HER working through issues, and not your daughter working through issues. My post was only meant to give you some other ideas on what those issues are that she might have been working on.

and that is completely understandable. I just want to say that I took the time to write those posts to you in support of you and the problems you are up against. I was trying to help you think of some of the issues that might be causing amom to give you the run around. For you to have read all that and to come out with: "It's interesting, it sounds like you are saying that for her not to follow up, it makes her scared about my intentions and makes her confused about her role, and that is to be expected, but my not following up makes me possibly "disconnected" and therefore maybe shouldn't have contact. What is the difference? Both will affect DD negatively. I'm not thrilled about the double standard, and I'd like to work through it, but I'm not given a chance." That paragraph right there? I makes me want to cry and ask myself why I even bother. I never implied that YOU were disconnected. If you don't like the term fine, but I referred to *A* disconnect, as in two or more people who are not longer connecting or communicating. I never referenced any one person as disconnected or distant. I also never said that her disconnect vs your disconnect was any different, or should be thought of differently. I didn't even know who, how or why it happened the first time so I was suggesting A) if you just walked away the 1st time with no warning or communication then maybe she was scared it would happen again. OR B) if communication broke down, or failed on their end, maybe she was hoping that if she did that again you would "go away". I can't honestly find anywhere where I said anything even remotely like there was any reason you shouldn't have contact. I think I encouraged you to make contact and skip over amom didn't I? Even you did walk away all on your own before, you still have the right to clearer contact than you are getting now. I also don't see anywhere where I justified or rationalized what she was doing or feeling was correct? I was trying to help you solve a problem. Suggestions and ideas do not equal an excuse. I was attempting to be supportive...believe me, I wasn't trying to set a double standard or rationalize in anyway that what was happening was correct or right, I was just trying to give you more ideas to see if there might have been something you hadn't thought of, that you could say/do to ease her mind and move forward toward the relationship you want. That's all. Good Luck!

aclee: I think you took what I said the wrong way. I understand you were trying to help. I was just trying to clear up some of my story so that you understood. Part of it might be my fault, because for some reason I can't believe that my DD's amom would think that way. It's possible that she does, I don't know. I know you dont know my story as much as others here do. Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought that by "disconnect" you were implying that you were referencing the years I was not in contact. The main reason why I was not was because I bought into the stereotype that I had no place in their life after placement. I also felt that I needed to be committed and a positive influence in DD's life to be in it, and at 20 years old (the age I was when we drifted off) I was still figuring out who I was. I attempted a reconnect when I was 110% certain that I could committ to the relationship with full heart. I have explained that to DD's a-mom already, and I am doing what ever I can to back that up with actions. I want to explain that to you so that you know where I am coming from too, since you replied to my post. You (and everyone else that reads this) deserves to know the whole picture before responding. So that is why I offer this info :) I know you are encouraging me to "skip over a-mom", but you know, as much as that might make life easier, we are still talking about a 16 year old who has told her a-mom she is not ready for direct contact. I would not do that out of respect for both DD, and her a-mom who has offered me the chance to work on a relationship. And that is what I'm trying to do. I know you are trying to offer me insight, and believe me, there is some great insight on this thread and I appreciate all of it. If I came across defensive, it is because I am too emotionally invested, hence why I am asking for objective opinion. I'm not attacking you. I guess I dont want to believe that there is a component of fear here. Which is silly, I'm terrified as I build this relationship. Keep it coming y'all. I hear you and it's great stuff :) PS: Love, I got the wine :)

Brown- No problem, I was sorta grouchy last night anyway. I just wanted to make it clear that even though I was "just" another amom, I am very much on your side. What is happening here isn't right for anyone involved. Since I'm still cranky (I have a 2 month old, so I'm totally entitled to be very cranky when ever I want) I want to comment on a few things you just wrote. Again, when I said disconnect, I just meant it as a verb, not as a description of you or anyone else. Physically (and emotionally and all that) the three side of the triad were not connecting. You seem ready to make that your fault which I think is sort of horse doodies (TG you may edit that if needed). There were TWO parties who committed to an open adoption, and to be honest, if she committed to an open adoption with a 20 year old, she should have been ready to be the more adultish person in that process. If we made an adoption plan with someone that young, I would know and be ready for the fact that most of the might be my responsibility. Like you said, I don't know most of your story, but I want to make it clear, and I hope you also feel that the disconnect that happened was shared at least 50-50. In telling you to skip over amom, I'm still encouraging you to do that. What amom is saying your daughter said, and feels is getting in the middle of everything. Not only can you not be sure about the authenticity of such communication, but clearly what your daughter would say to her amom about her bmom could be "tainted" not only by her own emotions toward amom, but amom's emotions, and by a million other things, even if she DID say that to amom. I personally would want to hear that from daughter herself before I was willing to put off more years of building this relationship only through amom. Does that make any sense? I realize that your daughter is 16, legally still a minor etc. I also realize that 12 years are gone, and clearly you understand that you can only get those back to a certain extent. I would hate for you to wait two more long years, and then have your daughter either say that she never said that to amom, or that she only said it because she was afraid to hurt amom, or didn't want amom in the middle of her communication with you. At 16 she maybe very independent, and want to communicate with you herself. I know at 16 I wanted that with MY mom (my parents divorced so it was a little different) but I got really upset when I heard about my mom via my step-mom (who I also called mom, she raised me). As an angry 16 year old I did want more than communication from my mom, I wanted her to prove it, and fight for me and show me I was important. Just as a reminder...all that was stuff about ME as an angry 16 year old...I'm not implying that is what your daughter is feeling, I'm just saying, she might want to do it on her own, and doesn't want communication through her amom, and amom is taking that as she isn't' ready for communication. Now for all I know amom and daughter sat down and had a real heart to heart about this, and she really isn't' ready for communication. Regardless, I personally would want, in a non threatening or confrontational way to hear it from her. I"m sure I'm preaching to the choir here though, and you would rather hear it from her too. I think you've been very respectful with amom for 1.5 years. I think now if your daughter isn't ready for communication to continue or move forward, you and amom should try to find a way that she can tell you that herself, so she can start to "own" her part of the triad, rather than feeling like she doesn't. Make any sense? I know 18 is legal etc, but the triad is made of 3 pieces not 2, showing her she can "own" her piece of the triangle (whether you like the answer or not) is something that should happen sooner rather than later if possible. I understand not wanting to step on toes, and to be respectful, and to include amom. From what I can see you've done that, and more.

I think "horse doodies" is okay :prop:

Aclee:I do appreciate your support, and we are all entitled to be cranky sometimes :) I realize that it seems that I am trying to take full responsibility for the disconnect (for lack of a better word ;) ) that happened years ago, I guess what I am trying to convey is that I take full responsibilty for MY end of it. Back in the early-mid 90's, OA was a relatively new concept, we weren't counseled on it. It was a private adoption, counseling was minimal, and I don't think any of it would have focused on OA, but more adoption in general. And I think that contributes to it. I do acknowledge her responsibility in it as well, but at this point, what's done is done, and I can only go on from here. Contacting DD directly is not so black and white, especially because a lot of what you are saying has truth and merit. I was told by her mom that DD is worried about hurting her mom. A lot of what DD is doing is secretive (looking at my pics, having her birthfather as her friend on myspace) and I think that knowing that I am in contact with her mother prevents her from seeking me out on her own. I think that her a-mom by waiting so long to tell her that we talk is a red flag that this is something her mom wants kept from her for a reason. And I think DD realizes the reason has to do with more her mom than something about me. I can see it through e-mail, I can imagine DD sees it from living with her. It is being made harder than it has to be, but I can really only control what I do. And it's hard to fight secrets, especially when you dont (and may never) know the depth of what those secrets are. All I can do is act above board, that's all I know how to do. By contacting DD behind her mom's back, I've now gone back on my word with her a-mom to wait for DD to give the OK first, (which I think honestly is not realistic that she would do that) and gives her a reason not to trust me. And she already seems to have reasons of her own, giving her another one isn't going to help DD any. Plus, there is that shot that DD really just isn't ready to communicate, and hearing from me directly would affect her negatively right now. It's a risk I can't take. What I can do is keep trying to give her chances to know me and understand that I am nothing to be afraid of, that I'm here to make things work. And it's sooooooo frustrating when obstacles keep getting thrown at me. The card in a way would have been a good chance to try to bridge this gap amongst us, to let DD know I care about her, to let DD know that her mom isn't afraid, but I think that was squashed, and instead it just continue to affirm the secrecy and the fear. I hope that somehow something will get through in the next 2 years, but if nothing does, then I can tell DD with a clear conscience that I did everything I could to be open and respectful, and it will fall back a-mom. Which I really don't want to happen either. This is so hard to negotiate. Aspenhall: I did want to say that I think you have a good point about being interested in my life, because we do come from different places. She probably sees herself as being really truly too busy and that I may not understand being that I am not raising children. Where as I am truly busy being a newlywed, working, activities, etc. and I can't relate to the whole SAHM/Soccer mom thing. I am actually a tad closer to DD's age than her age, my interests are younger at heart, and that I think does impact our connection. I wonder if when I do start to raise a family, that she will feel we have more in common? But we both have acknowedged an important connection, and I think it's important to try to explore that too.

Brown, Hey, its me! the one getting bashed over there. I was lumping some people together trying to make a point, which I failed miserably at, but whatever. I realized your situation was a bit different after you wrote so I wanted to address it here. Not apples and oranges different but maybe oranges and tangerenes,ha! anyway, I still feel adament that you shouldn't have to prove yourself, like maybe you have already proved yourself enough). Be respectful(which you seemed to be) state your intentions, and your readiness to communicate when needed and then let it go. How can your daughter feel abandoned if she isn't even ready yet? When she is, just be there(like our gonna actually miss that?) The wait is hard but reunion is even harder sometimes. Just the intensity of meeting your daughter will be overwhelming. You will be so buggy from trying to figure out this mom by the time d is ready for you, she'll have to come to "the rubber room" to see you! I learned that all adoptive parents weren't mistrusting and fearful of first families, really good news, just not my experience. The relationship with my daughter might not last for whatever reason, if not, I am so thankful for this time we have had. She is, at least straightforward and honest(how refreshing!)If I'd been great friends of her parents it woulda been a bit awkward had she not wanted to have anything to do with me. She'll be 20 soon, in answer to you question. Well, I don't know a lot about stuff like some people here do, I just know my experience. In my experience, a real friend treats you different than how you seem to be treated by this person. I could be wrong. Hope I am.

Hey, Brown! I just read through this thread. I have a couple disconnected thoughts... (Hey it's Sunday, my "day of work" and I'm definitely not responsible for the state of my mind...Ok, I hear you saying "How is that different from other times?")First, give her a head's up. Tell her you're going to call her on ___ at ____ o'clock. (She can choose to be there or not, or she can email you.) Don't ask her what will suit; make an annoucement.I don't think you can do an end run around ampm at this point. If DD chooses to have you as her "friend" on her myspace, that's different.I think the only thing worse for a girl than being 14 is being 16, LOL. At that age, my daughter would tell me (when she was talking to me) that she wished she was adopted. (What I "love" is that now she will tell me she thinks I did a good job raising her.) It is often difficult for moms as their children start moving toward adulthood and away from dependence on their parents. It's not an easy time for most of us. (My mother in later used used to tell us how she loved it when we were teens. My siblings and I would look at each other and try to figure out what teens she was talking about!) It sounds to me like amom may be dealing with some of the teen stuff and her reaction to it. Is DD the youngest? That might make it even harder.Hang in there. I know it feels like forever right now but it may be a short time in terms of a lifelong relationship. Just keep being there... From what D has told me, D's teenage years were rough. If I had entered his life then, he might totally rejected me (in reaction to his sense of me "not wanting him.")No real answers her... know that you have support from those of us who care about you and your journey!

I think you see mainly what I mean, but I wanted to clarify one point. You can tell amom that you are going to contact your daughter. You can even be nice about it. I think if you tried to present it as giving daughter the strength to control her part of the relationship or something along those lines, it's something amom would realize was positive. I hope so anyway. I would try to find a way to get in direct contact with daughter without doing it behind her amom's back...I would push for that even more now that I see that your daughter is clearly interested in her birth parents. I see that you are a respectful person etc. I can also see by your post that you want to respect what you've said to amom. I also want amom to respect what she's said to YOU, and commitments she's made to you for an open adoption.

aclee: I do get what you are saying. I did just what you are saying, I asked to send a card for her birthday. That's kind of where some issues came out, and she questioned my intentions. Just my asking set off insecurity. But she said I could send the card and she'd ask if she wanted it, and I don't think she ever asked her. (Don't know, she never wrote me back :grr: ) but given the past, I think it's safe to say she didn't. It is a possibility that she allowed my ex to write her, but she won't confirm that, it's one of the questions I have that I can't get a straight answer about. So the only way TO contact my daughter directly is behind her back, as she will always find a way to put the kibosh on it right now, whether it be giving off vibes to DD that she isn't comfortable or not following through on things. I don't know if I'm ready to deal with the potential consequences of that.

I wouldn't contact your daughter behind amom's back. That puts your daughter in a bad position and it isn't fair to her. Call amom. Also, my kids were very up and down about their relationship with bfamily. If mom had contacted them before they were ready, I don't think they would have pursued a relationship with her as adults-based on what they said and their personalities. She is still 16. If you go behind amom's back, you ruin the relationship with the aparents. That certainly will make thing hard on your daughter, even as an adult. I think letting amom know how your are feeling would be a better place to start. She gave you numbers to call. It doesn't sound like she's wanting to prevent you from having a relationship. At this point, you don't know if the resistance is amom, adad, or your daughter. While waiting must be murder, I would think hard before contacting your daughter behind amom's back.

So I e-mailed DD's a-mom last week and asked if she still wanted to talk, that I was available over the weekend. She responded right away, and told me it sounded great, and asked for my numbers and my address. However, she never called. Even after I went out of my way to e-mail her and advise her that I had a change of plan and would not be available at a time I said I would. She e-mailed me Mon AM and basically told me she didn't call because she was too busy, but she "will call she promised!" If I had a dollar for everytime I heard that. I wish I could believe her. I'm not going to contact my daughter while she is a minor, however I am going to re-evaluate this when she turns 18. If at that time it makes her aparents upset, I can't control that, but I'll cross that bridge later. For now I don't see anything else I can do but what I'm doing. I would love to find some way to express to her how I feel. But I don't even know how that would help or change things, as I feel like she probably has a good excuse for that all lined up. And I still don't know if she ever got the card, or whether her mom even gave it to her. Since she never addressed the question when I asked (and how can she NOT know I am curious!) I assume it's not something she wants to discuss. But thanks for everyones support. SO TIRED OF THESE :roadblock: :roadblock: :roadblock: !!!!!!

Brown, I'm so sorry she didn't follow thru. How frustrating. Reading your story, it's pretty clear that you're the only one in this relationship holding up your end of the bargain. This isn't about her. It's about her/your daughter. I think you're wise to keep gently trying and when she turns 18 - all bets off. It baffles me when I read these stories...does she think that your side of things will never be heard? (((HUGS)))

Brown so with you on the dang:roadblock: :roadblock: :roadblock: I am tired of them myself and I have 14 years to go. (((HUGS)))