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I'm noticing a lot of threads lately where if everyone doesn't agree with someone, it gets turned into a whine of "I'm not feeling supported". It's everywhere, so don't feel like any one person is being singled out. I see it on SEVERAL forums.
I would honestly like to know if people think agreement is necessary to be supportive? If another perspective is shown, does that mean it's not supportive? What does support mean to you??
Personally, I like honesty better than someone blowing smoke up my butt telling me it's all going to be just fine. I'm just that way. There are WAYS to be honest without being mean or rude, imo, so even if I don't necessarily WANT to hear something, if it's going to help me, I'll appreciate it. (maybe not in that moment, but afterwards...kwim?)
Thoughts?
I'm kind of with you on this Crick. I think it's all in the wording, and maybe often in the intent?
I think lot of times people forget how much the words 'in my opinion' can soften something. I have an ex who thought he never needed to say that, but it made him seem really overbearing and obnoxious (I thought!) that he never did! There is this kind of unsaid 'I'm right and you're wrong' when one has a differing opinion and doesn't soften it a bit.
Does that make sense?
It's so often in the wording and I think online it's SUPER hard to understand intent behind words. I know when I'm feeling very vulnerable (which we often are when we are posting here especially!) it's so easy to mis-read things. I usually try to ask the person who I feel attacked by to explain if I read things right (I think I do anyway!) but that's often hard to do in the heat of the moment.
Wow, what a lot of babble. (by me I mean...)
:-)
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I get really frustrated sometimes by this....."I came here for support and all you're doing is disagreeing with me!"
I have found myself recently more reluctant to participate in some threads where the original post is focused on that need for support and not discussion. Because honestly, I feel like I might not be heard or my opinion might not be welcome at that time. Also I worry that I'll get flamed for it, as has happened in the past.
I just think that support isn't necessarily hearing what you want to hear, it's hearing what you need to hear. So for me? No, Support is not the same as agreement. I wouldn't be halfway where I am today on my journey if people just agreed with me the whole way!
I have to agree that "in my opinion" is HUGELY important. This also goes with "in my experience" for me, but that's a slightly different topic.....
Btw, all examples or fake quotes that I used in this aren't speaking to any one thread, poster, etc. Just a sort of general feeling on my two and a half years here.
Crick,
To me support does not have to equal agreement. In my mind if you post a thread you should expect multiple view points...without those viewpoints you are living in a vaccum and cannot grow, learn, see or feel anything other than yourself...what a sad place to be in, in my opinion.
"I am right so therefore you are wrong" is not a good mantra to have, you limit yourself and your world.
Kind regards,
Dickons
Dickons
Crick,
"I am right so therefore you are wrong" is not a good mantra to have, you limit yourself and your world.
Absolutely!
I guess one of the main things that I'm thinking of where I've experianced this sort of thing is talking to certain people about music.
So, for example, I throw out 'Oh I like that new NKOTB tune, it's really catchy.' Am I looking for support? kinda, discussion, maybe, but when I get the response 'WHAT? That's total crap!' There was a time in my life where I'd get upset by that. To me it would feel like the commenter was saying 'You're crap for listening to and liking that.'
If they'd said instead 'I personally HATE NKOTB and don't like that song.' I'd take it better. Right?
I would say a supportive response, from someone who maybe didn't agree with me would be, 'Well, NKOTB isn't my taste, but I can see where it's a catchy tune.'
I try to give support, even when I don't agree, and generally, if I just can't agree or give support (if that's what someone wants instead of discussion), I try to leave the thread alone.
I would hope that others would do the same, but of course, it doesn't always happen that way, does it!
I don't think support = agreement. For instance, Janey can support me in my LOVE of BEETS, but she doesn't have to agree with me that they are super-duper delicious!
Seriously, though, I think someone can disagree and still be supportive, but the disagreement should be respectful and constructive, and not bashing in nature. I would much rather have someone honestly tell me if I am off base on something in a respectful way than to just validate what I am saying to make me feel good or because they were too afraid to tell me the truth. Sometimes you need someone to present the other side of an issue to see beyond your own bias.
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I think in terms of discussion where you feel you truly cannot support the person, there's nothing wrong with not posting. Sometimes though there are topics that are really important to us as individuals and have that need to say our piece.
In that way, unless it's an intent to do nothing but be rude, I try to look at it as educational support or even support to others reading the thread.
Your "Real mom" "Adopter" comment TGM would fall in line with this I think. If a first parent truly believes they are the real mom and were posting to that affect in need of support "I don't get why people are upset about this. It's MY truth"! Well, I don't see any point really arguing that with her and rather will just share my perspective and hope that someone else gets the point.
I also agree with the "you are right/wrong" approach that several of you have mentioned. I think too that just because someone offers a different perspective or flat out disagrees with me, I need to remember that it doesn't make them right. I try to really remember that one voice doesn't speak for all, even if that person comes off that way. Course, then I feel like it runs into a "You don't hear me" line when I did indeed hear it.
And Q honey...NKOTB...ROCKS!;) hee!
Crick, I agree re: education opportunity.
Though I very rarely say it anymore, a situation where I most often see something like this is with the whole "birthmom" label before a woman has even given birth.
Now, if someone is experiencing a failed match or something, they're grieving, and I don't step in and educate them on terminology! I know they're hurting, and it's not apporpriate.
But if it's a more general discussion where someone is talking about "their birthmom" when the woman hasn't placed (let alone given birth) I *might* take that opportunity to gently remind/educate. And many times I've been told that I'm not being supportive and that that's not what the OP needs right now.
And maybe it's not....like I said, I NEVER mention it when someone's clearly grieving and just wants to feel the commraderie of those that have experienced this before.
But I feel like I'm doing a disservice sometimes to not mention anything.....I don't know.
I should probably keep my trap shut more often than I do :evilgrin:
In my mind's eye I equate support with unconditional love. I might support someone, while not agreeing with their opinion or decision. Sometimes supporting someone means expressing your concern over the decisions or opinions they might have. I wouldn't support my friend's decision not to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle - to not voice my opinion would be negligence. Sometimes people need to hear what they don't want to.....
In reference to these forums, I think that if you choose to start a thread in any public forum (or post in response to another's, for that matter), and ask people for their input - whether you are actually looking for other's opinions, just needing others to agree with you, or to support you because you don't have anyone else to turn to - you have to be prepared for whatever comes your way. Good, bad, or ugly - you are bound to get a little of each! If you bruise easily, you might want to reconsider before posting.
That being said, I firmly believe that the world is populated by mostly kind and generous people who's last intention is to be malicious or hurtful. When we read other's comments, we do not have the benefit of hearing their tone of voice, seeing their facial expressions, or body language to help us gauge their intent. Doesn't help that we probably haven't ever met IRL, and we don't know each other's sense of humor. Often, I think that these hinderances contribute to the hurt people might feel regarding what others post. When I have felt the sting of other's words, I have tried to step back and consider the source and to see if I might have been wrong. More times then not I find that my knee jerk reaction was just that, and that the person did not mean any harm.
I have learned more from differing opinions in my life then from those who blindly agree.
I'm glad you brought that up TGM. I personally let that one go more often than I likely should, because I do think sometimes the situation is not appropriate for education. On the other hand, sometimes it gets to be too much for everyone participating. If for example a prospective parent posts in the bparent forums, like this one for instance, I think it's important they know that their audience is likely to be bothered by the term for an emom and does need to know that. I think HOW it's explained is key though - especially when it's a newbie who truly doesn't know.
Courtney - totally agree...the good the bad the ugly is all part of it! Your comment on the sense of humor also resonates because I know I've unintentionally hurt some people with mine. I'm pretty "jokey" a lot of the time and yet need to remember that not everyone gets it or likes it.
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Crick - I tend towards sarcasm, and have yet to master the art of typing out of the side of mouth, much less raising my eyebrows and smirking (those are the dead give aways that I am joking!)
To me, support is just being there to listen and actually caring about the person. My biggest supporter is my best friend and she doesn't always agree with me. It's not that she disagrees, she just gives a fresh perspective, one which usually helps me to see things in a completely different light. This is true support.
If someone agrees with everything you say, you don't learn anything. Often, emotions cloud our thinking. Another perspective affords us the opportunity to gain more knowledge and to grow. Without growth, we are stagnant.
I guess part of the problem is what does it mean to support someone. Do I have to agree with their position? My mom used to feel that if you didn't do something the way she did it you were telling her she was wrong. In part,I think, people looking for support need to believe that you actually hear what they are saying and that their feelings have validity because they are their feelings. I may disagree with your position but I always need to acknowledge that your feelings are real. If I tell you that you can't or shouldn't feel a certain way, I am dismissing your reality and I am NOT supporting you. When I am teaching listening skills, the first thing I teach is to listen to what the other person is saying! Much of the time we are formulating our response while the other person is speaking and may not really hear what they are saying. I think that happens on the forums as well. We want to share our own position and may seem to be dismissing the original poster all together! Of course, some of us (maybe all of us sometimes) are looking for people who agree with our position.
As one poster has already pointed out, the lack of visual and vocal cues also creates some of the difficulties. Crick, when I first was in reunion with D, he would IM me something and then quickly add that he was being sarcastic. I just laughed because we share a similar sense of humor and I had assumed he was being sarcastic.