how much has changed?

Ripples, Excellent question...early morning person... I think what has changed the most is that adoption is being studied and talked about and information is available to people who are interested in understanding can access it. But there are still many, many people who don't want to hear it...and I can understand in a way - they simply want a family and are solely focused on that aspect. People on this forum are far more open but sometimes they still become defensive or dismissive at times. I don't know enough about truly open adoptions to voice an opinion on them. The semi-open where updates are sent seem to be primarily a one-way street which seems to defeat the intent, while it still does leave the door open for future contact without going through 20-30 years of searching and then still being subject to a luck of the draw - except of course those monitored/censored through the agency - where I still think names/addresses are taboo. I do know that the innane sadness/fear of the birth family (when not truly an open adoption) is still present and that to I think is just something that is. No matter how many times we tell them one does not negate the other and cannot replace the other and both can live in harmony and there is ample room in the heart for more family - it is hard on them. I was never teased or stigmatised at school or with extended family about adoption and never had issues that way - although I heard adults gossiping in church hallways about unmarried women who were pregnant etc so I did feel the slap in the face there for being illegitimate (and being adopted did not erase that feeling)... I always knew I was adopted and questions answered and discussed - it was never taboo becuase my parents lived in reality. They also talked about the social stigma mothers from my era faced and how society wasn't always right etc. So for me that type of discussion that happened way back when so is nothing new...perhaps society just caught up with my parents approach! What hasn't improved is the lack of a process to update medical history etc. That falls squarely on the professionals involved with some responsiblity on the parents if they do not ask for it. I do not think the professionals have done squat to rectify it - probably people do not want to pay a fee so they don't bother - cuz we all live in the world of "no it won't happen to us" mentality... But I do agree with you that people dismiss to quick and believe it is for several reasons. 1. They know adoptees who are just fine - we are all the same you know or we had crappy parents who did not raise us right so we had a bad experience or we mal-adusted have mental issues and their children will be just fine. 2. We are forever perptual children and never grow up so therefore we can be talked down to and dismissed because they are parents and adoptees are children - regardless if we are old enough to be their grandparents AND have a good experience and still love our families and visit and phone and celebrate with them... Take care,Dickons

Those two things happen a lot to me LOL All I can do is laugh and imagine that the conversation would be entirely different if we were sitting next to each other at my kitchen table. Sometimes I just sit back and enjoy being the perpetual kid that needs a good reprimand. ;) Makes me feel younger. It seems to make some feel better, and when feeling snarky I suggest they can call my mom and dad and tell on me if they think it could help set me straight. (dying to post their number LOL) Nobody ever takes me up on it tho, I wish they would :evilgrin: LOL PM me rofl i think within the adoption community, things have gotten much more open, the discussions seem to have become easier and what we say more easily accepted. It's when you step outside into the general public that you will find the comments are behind the times a decade or two, or ten. I know lately I have said "Um, single parents adopt all the time" and people are shocked and uh uh uh ... need to retreat and rethink their arguement.

I should also reply, "Glad to hear that now birthmothers, particularly those in Ethiopia, Guatemala, Vietnam, etc; have so much access to community-funded post-relinquishment support services! Just like war veterans!"

i actually think for me....that this makes me a better adoptive parent. i think things HAVE changed....and it makes me MORE aware of things i need to do to be more supportive of my son. i appreciate when adoptees raise awareness, because it always causes me to pause and think.....even when i necessarily don't "agree" with everything that is posted...the bottom line is i know i'm not an adoptee...and my kids are. i have to at least stop and think, "will this apply to MY kids...will MY kids feel this way?" maybe they will. i might still argue or be defensive...but i do walk away and give it a second thought....and i feel like just that process alone makes me a little more aware and proactive when it comes to raising my child born in another country. i agree that there is a LONG way to go. i know i have a lot to learn....i know i won't get everything right...but i can only hope that adoptees will CONTINUE to raise awareness of issues that we as parents need to continue to hear, contemplate, or address. don't let those of us who are being dismissive stop you from telling your story...there are PLENTY of adoptive parents who are listening (even when we might not seem like we are).......and we want to learn. :)

MommytoEli - we are spoiled on this forum by members like you - who listen...absorb...tuck it away to be aware of...be more open to...we really are... But outside of here - I am seeing the 'that was then - this is now' attitude reflected even on the words spoken by the adult adoptees in the study by the adoption institute - beyond culture camp. The feelings of the adoptees about identity increasing in adulthood, being raised as white with all the privileges that go with it at home but in the real world they are not white...and those feelings are being dismissed as - the stigmas they faced are now gone from the real world as compared to 10, 20, 30 years ago, there are many interacial families etc. But the stigmas are not gone - the interacial families are not the same - they have just been covered up with pretty language. I do not see the dismissal ever changing... Ripples - love your addition to Beth's points...bet there is alot of that post adoption support happening... Kind regards,Dickons

[url=http://justenjoyhim.wordpress.com/]Just Enjoy Him[/url] I like this blog by an AP... Kind regards,Dickons

Dickons, I agree with much that has been posted.I am an old adoptee and it is true that there have been changes in adoption circles. The climate of adoption has become more positive and certainly there is less stigma attached to b-moms and adoptees.It would seem that in the various stages of the adoption reform, that adoption has come in on the coat tails of the changes in the fabric of our society.The quality of life for women has improved remarkably. They are no longer simply a homemaker confined to the narrow requirements of simply answering to family needs.Women now have the freedom to make choices in terms of family, careers, education, etc. Many successfully juggle a busy schedule, e.g. "soccer Moms."Few people have any interest in lifestyles of the '20's, '30's and '40's etc. Adoptions during those periods was based on secrecy and adoptions were sordid transactions. Many posts have indicated that the stigma of adoption and unmarried moms remained up into the '70's.The common thought during many of those earlier years, was that children were "seen, but not heard." It was an adult society. Adults were first and children were loved and cared for, but their concerns were secondary. Very different now from the concerns families have for their children.The love, concern, and care posted by moms for the children they have adopted, has often brought me to my knees. In the '80's, a newer and more radical approach was seen when women began to think "outside the box" and believed that if they wanted children, marriage was not necessarily a requirement. They could pick a father for their child, but raise the children as a single parent. In spite of all the advancements and techniques used to care for the newer generations of adoptees, many posts here confirm that the emotional attachments of grief, loss, and sadness are still present.So far we have not been able to find a fix for that.I wish you the best.

Hi Drywall,Thanks for your responses - I very much agree. And I'd rather be a woman in today's (Western world) than decades ago. However, may I add that the improvements that we enjoy in the West still have a VERY long way to go. According to the UN Development Fund for Women, women in developing countries still bear the brunt of a lot of social, economic, political injustices - eg. they comprise the majority of the world's impoverished. And I'm certain that these injustices have a flow-on effect regarding unplanned pregnancies, relinquishment and the associated stigmas. As the founder of the Inter-Country Adoptee Support Network said recently, the last of the voiceless and disempowered in the intercountry adoption triad are birthparents.

When I, and every adoptee, can go pick up our birth certificate, our original one, just by requesting it like everyone else in North America - Only then will I agree that anything has really changed here. The secrets haven't changed much at all when the smoke clears. That is pretty hard to dismiss imo. I forgot how many other countries seal OBC's or I would say the world. And I am clueless as to what happens to international adoptees OBC's, or even if all countries have some kind of record of birth. Or even if adopted parents get a copy of the original, where ever anyone is born. I wish a form could be created, instead of altered birth certificates, to reflect people as family, legal family and allow for name changes. It could help many people. A Forever Family form. <<<< that was me dreaming I'm thankful for the many moms here that are willing to listen about the tangled and conflicting thoughts and feelings an adoptee can run across, throughout their lives, you have no idea what a sense of relief, and hope you bring to me. Hearing other adoptees from all over, and all ages, say the same things I feel, and often say them better than I ever could, really validates what I have found on my journey. Hearing an experienced amom validate much of it, really cements it in for me. :flower:

oh good grief, you gotta be kidding me, I'm glad I haven't heard that one yet

Too many people still see adoption as an easy solution to the problem of infertility and unwanted pregnancies. Outside of A.com, I still hear way too often people advising childless couples, "Just adopt." With unwanted pregnancies, I still hear, more times than I'm comfortable with, people advising birthparents, "place the baby with a family who can give the child what you can't", and with open adoptions, so many birthparents misunderstanding the ramifications of their decision, thinking of APs as, sort of, babysitters, or in other cases, thinking, in 18 years they can have their baby back. Having said that, it certainly understandable as to how a young teen, or emotionally imature young person would come to those conclusions. However far adoption has come, it still has a long way to go. I agree with Beth, until closed/sealed records are done away with, adoption really can't be what it was intended to be. Sealed records make it too, too easy for secrets and lies to continue, as well as, make it easier for those who would take advantage of the unfortunate situations of others to get what they want or gain monitarily. A lot has changed, but there is still a long way to go.

While Adoption has become more of a talked about subject, the fact that folks react and or treat us differently once they find out we are adopted, is well at the least distasteful. 35 States Still to this day have and enforce Statutes the Strip Away our UNENUMERATED RIGHTS, a Granted by the Constitution, Ninth Amendment. These Laws, allow and enforce a system in which WE (the Adoptees) are veiwed and treated as Second Class Citizens - Yet we are asked to accept this and go along for the ride. What I find amazing, is that such a Double Standard of Law can and does still exist.

i don't know if the original bc's are sealed in Guatemala after adoption...but we did received a copy of our son's original Guatemalan BC. in addition to that, his family's information- social worker report of his family history and situation, his mother's and grandmother's address- are part of his adoption paperwork that i have. APs of internationally adopted children can also file something called a g884 with the uscis for the return of the original documents provided to immigration when the child arrived in the US. there is also more info in there- including more contact information and pictures. :) i know your wonderings are 2 months old....but should you wander back here i wanted you to have an answer. :)