transracial adoption issues

Mark, I will agree, so many childish responses. But I suppose it only matters to you when you are the target, and not when you have been doing it through the last several pages of dialogue. You have been extremely rude, condescending, and dismissive. The only futility here is for those of us who were trying to have an open and honest conversation. Any time you were challenged you became arrogant and mean-spirited. Self-awareness is obviously in very short-supply with you. One thing that has troubled me, and I finally figured it out: this is a Transracial Adoption board. Being that you don't believe these issues merit speaking of, why even bother to come on this board in the first place? Was it to school us into thinking, those of us that think race matters, into thinking just like you? Because your intention throughout has been to dissuade at every turn, that we talk about racism with our children. No need to answer those questions, they are rhetorical in nature, because you see, I have a glimmer of hope that you might still glean something that we all tried in vain to let you in on: it's not about YOU and how YOU see the world. It's about our children of color. Peace out Dickons and Nick. Dickons...you just opened up a whole other can of worms, but we should save that thread for how we hysterical women just don't know what we are talking about. :eyebrows:

I'm having a terrible time with my words today apparently. I was being sarcastic. I've been thinking about this thread today a lot. I was laying on the floor with Matthew throwing a ball up for him and I was thinking about the layers of all this folks have been talking about and tried to put them with Matthew.Liberian/foreign bornAfrican Americanadoptedpost cleft lip/palleteprofoundly deaf/Cochlear implants(not sure how they're working, but speech is an issuegets his nutrition through a G tube due to cleft larynxBalance issues due to his undeveloped cochlea etcwhite parents (who are older too)I was very thankful for what an amazingly strong little guy he is, and for his wonderful personality that has withstood so much.And I realized how lucky I was and what a privilege it is to be his Dad.Having lost two kids, I never thought I'd feel that way again.So yes, it was meant as a joke when I talked about the 'war'. With that I'll bow out of this discussion until I get better at putting my thoughts in print Edited to add Matthew's feeling about this thread and that we need to knock it off and do better or he's going to step in :)

lol he has big gorgeous eyes if I may say so about the little guy. My first kid was a preemie etc; but his g and j tubes were temporary, but such kids are great fighters.

That really stinks Dickons, simple measures could have prevented such damage. Another pet peeve topic of mine.. but I digress. Hugs to you.

Guppy - instead of being sarcastic why not take the time to learn about the layers - then if anything in those layers apply at any time throughout his childhood and adulthood (because many don't appear until then), you can understand the why's...and help with understanding instead of denial, or disbelief that they can and are impacting him... You guys have the ability our parents never did as far as that generation of AP's knew we were blank slates and nurture would win over nature anyday and love was enough, we would never wonder what happened before or any of that stuff...they too had blank slates as far as knowledge on adoption and its inherent loss that would show many faces and had to get by when things smacked them in the face out of nowhere - you guys have the luxury of knowledge. You don't want to hear it from me that's fine I provided a link to someone not as blunt. Kind regards,Dickons

First I want to send my best wishes to Dickons and trust that you will get through all of the health challenges/rehabilitation and come out stronger on the other side. I shared information a few days ago about one of the most fascinating transracial "adoptions" in American History, that of George Washington Carver. Had he not be rescued and then reared by Moses and Susan Carver our world today would be much, much different, and not for the better. In large part we enjoy the abundance in our grocery stores because of the butterfly effect that Dr. Carver put in motion late in the 19th century. THE SEEDS WE SOW, KINDNESS THAT FED A HUNGRY WORLD, does indeed deal with a transracial adoption, but it is primarily a treatise on the power of kindness. As I read the posts on this Thread I just wanted to share that kindness and respect are without doubt the most powerful way to communicate. Best wishes to you all. [url=http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Kindness-That-Hungry-World/dp/0865347883]Amazon.com: The Seeds We Sow, Kindness That Fed A Hungry World (9780865347885): Gary Beene: Books[/url]

This thread really does need to be closed simply because it's going nowhere but south. However, I see there hasn't been a reminder posted about being KIND and RESPECTFUL (sarcasm from ALL can go out the door, thanks) so I'm giving you ONE.Everyone has different experiences so let's respect that and have a dialogue that can actually help and not hinder. Not every belief and situation is going to apply to every person on here or their children, so keep that in mind as you debate. It's not a "my way or no way" situation after all.Thanks.

I've been reading this since it started & thinking the same thing. Everyone's experiences with adoption & transracial parenting are different, I think everyone is trying to tell the truth about their experiences. My daughter is a toddler still but so far we haven't had any negative experiences. We live in a pretty conservative, about 80% white suburb that's a mix of classes (we have blue collar families like ours & also middle class families & some richer families) , our subdivision has a couple black families in it that I know of, & everyone has been really accepting of Nicole. The lady across the street (who is white) loves Nicole & invites her over to play with her granddaughter who is about the same age. She also helped me plan Nicole's birthday party last year & gave her presents for Christmas. I'm also trying to find more diverse friends, I've gotten to be good friends with a black mom who also has an adopted daughter Nicole's age & we have playdates at the play area in the mall that is very diverse. If we get any nice weather this summer we'll take her to a pool in a mostly black neighborhood that we went to last year & everyone there was nice to us. I don't know if it'll be different when she's older but I'm hoping she'll be happy with who she is & being in our family. I want to have a home where she feels like she can be honest & tell us anything & we'll listen to her & help her the best we can.

I was wondering when you were going to step in, Crick. :) Guppy - That picture is adorable! I love it. He's such a cutie.

Marnie as parents we do look for validation from those who we deem important to us, nothing wrong with that. In general we raise our children to the best of our ability, environment, and personality. We all have our own family dynamics; noisy, outgoing, laid back,mixtures of all. Love, and feeling safe and secure, is an important part of a child's foundation.Parenting is not easy, as mentioned prior add the layers of adoption, and it's a bit more navigating, that's where it can become trickier. I would love it if DDs initial attachment problems from inconsistent parenting (prior to her being placed with us) as an adopted toddler/closed adoption did not pop up at times. While it would be easy to say oh she is just like my biological boys, we will treat her the same way, deep down I know that's not always the case. I can love her as I do my boys, but her deepest needs are a tad different, time will tell. So while focusing on the wonderful aspects of her, I still prepare, and put away information, implement some, and so on. Saying in general here, have to be careful where we get our validation from. Discussions regarding race relations and such, while it got testy for a bit, myself included, is important. Discussions regarding race is never a comfortable topic.

I'd like to share a little of my personal experience. I'm caucasian. My husband is too. [Is that CC? Sorry, not so good with the abbreviations. Do you have a place here to help decipher what some of them mean?] We live in Africa and are in the process of adopting three and a half year old triplets (African, of course) after having fostered them for two years (two boys and a girl). When the adoption is complete we plan to move to Australia. I love Africa and I love my children, but sadly the cultural situation has been difficult for our family. I dare to say it is racism, though there are many issues intertwined. Everytime I take my children out people talk about us. My understanding of the local language is better than my childrens' which is some protection for them. They don't understand what people are saying around us. But people will also come up and straight out ask me where I "bought" my children, jokingly ask to take one of mine or offer me one of theirs, or express concern for the mere fact that these children of a different race are with me at all. Occasionally the situation gets tense, and so we have been advised to carry an official letter from the Children's Department on us to prevent things getting ugly. In addition to this, there is not a lot of respect (from strangers) of my role as parent with my children, and a feeling that because they are of the same race as my children that they have a right to come up and start doing something with my children without any effort to communicate with me (and sometimes despite my or my children's objections). There are also certain cultural practices, like the fact that children are supposed to be friendly to their elders, even if they are strangers, that we struggle to know the best way to deal with (like it's teaching the opposite of stranger danger). My children are starting to understand more of what is going on and we've been trying to get the right mix of cultures plus prepare them for some of the uglyness of what they have to deal with. They already know that they're adopted. They know that my husband and I are "different" and often use the term "white people" (though I prefer the term "European"). They have not yet learnt that there is a different term for "non-whites" as they are the majority here and so they think of themselves as the normal, whereas my husband and I are the unusual ones. My husband and I look forward to getting to Australia where WE will not stand out in a crowd and hopefully people will be a bit more cautious in their racist comments (even if they still think it in their heads). In some ways this is selfish of us though, as moving to Australia will mean our children will be the ones to stand out and will have to deal with the racism a lot more. I know most (or all) of you are from the U.S. and so you cannot help me in knowing what it might be like in Australia. But I'm still curious about the level of racism you feel your kids have had to experience. Like HOW ugly does it get? And how often? Thanks for your help.

Hello Triplets and welcome to the forums! I am American and I've never been to Africa so I can't give you much advice on how to handle the situation you are in right now. I can tell you to contact a member here named Sbaglio. He is from Zimbabwe. He might be able to give you some advice on understanding and dealing with the cultural concerns you have. Also, contact Caths1964. She is from Australia and lives in New Zealand. She can give you advice about that transition. Good Luck!

Thanks Gwen. I will check out the people you recommended. I'm not really so concerned about the situation in Africa, as we've had to deal with it for some time and can handle it a while longer. We try to remind ourselves that people's "helpfulness" with our children and even their concern for their safety (why are with these white people) comes from a good heart. The trick is to stand up for our children but to do so respectfully towards others. And with regard to stranger danger, my children actually quite resent strangers expecting them to be friendly, so it works out well (except that they come across as quite rude!). For now, I'm favouring teaching them to be a little more friendly and respectful of their elders, and then give them a bit more of a crash course on stranger danger whenever we get to Australia. I guess we are, perhaps naively, hoping that things will be much easier culturally when we get to Australia. I really hope so, but I also don't want to stick my head in the sand and end up not doing the right thing by our children as a result. Reading through what others have written, it seems there's a fair bit of difference in people's experiences even in the U.S., but I get the feeling that some level of being treated differently must be felt quite regularly by African Americans, perhaps even on a daily basis. I have an AA friend who visited Australia once who said he didn't experience racism in his six months stay there. He said he felt a bit out of place but that was more an internal thing and people treated him quite well. I suspect it's being unrealistic to expect the same for my children, since other children will probably speak their mind (i.e. prejudices) more freely than adults. Thanks again.

I am posting here to say that I have lived in a society like the one you describe - where children are expected to be respectful to all elders, including those they do not know - and I too consider it to be somewhat dangerous for children - especially actually for the known adults since known adults are more likely to abuse children, but children are expected to go along with everything adults ask them to do (there's a local saying where I lived, "your elder is always right"). I feel it was rather like that in Western countries in the past; there is something to be said for mouthy modern children! I noticed that European children were expected to go along with this a little but not as much as local children, so I think you may find that people are expecting your children to behave as if they are with an African family. I wonder if telling people your children "may look African but actually they are European" might help at all? If it's anything like where I lived, a few people will have a first reaction of "whoa, that's amazing" and semi-believing it, but then getting the message over? Incidentally I knew a few families who had adopted locally and there was a very positive attitude to this - though perhaps through an incomplete understanding of adoption, as a more temporary thing (you can PM me for more details if you like).

Thanks questioning. I really appreciated your input, and it confirms within me that what I've been doing up to now has been right. I KNOW no-one will believe me if I say they are not African kids, but it's worth a try. I think overall I need to stop worrying about what others think and try to do what I know is right and what is best for their safety.I guess one of the reasons I struggled with this is that they ARE African kids. Africa is and should be part of their identity, so I don't want to just throw out things from the culture just because I personally don't like something. But this does seem important enough to not conform on.