RAD and natural consequences for laziness

I think Withay has a point too. You need time for you. Talk to dh and find an evening a week or time on the weekend when he stays home and you go do something. It could be as simple as shopping and eating by yourself or taking a class, a women's bible study if you are religious or a class in something at the local committee college or find a class in cake decorating or knitting or quilting or painting or gardening or sign language, or French, or tap dancing, or literature, or a book club, singing with a choral group or Karate, something you have always wanted to learn to do or learn more about. Something that gets you out of the house and with other adults.

So because she has nothing left to control, the bedwetting issue has escalated. Maybe she is afraid of all the family time we've been having lately because she can't sabotage that. The problem with choices, is she uses it to create an argument, the choices are never what she wants, she wants complete control. Here's a perfect example, she says she's hungry and wants a snack, I give a choice between fruit or a fruit smoothie, I name off some of the fruits we have that would be great in a smoothie, but what does she want? A chocolate smoothie, (which is essentially a milk shake), and she goes on and on for a half hour about wanting that and it not being fair, and that's stupid, and how come, and why not...

Hello, Okay, back from the smoothie point. I think that if she prefers a chocolate smoothie instead of a fruit smoothie, then, my opinion is that you let it go. It is a harmless choice, so if she prefers a chocolate smoothie, be it. Again, if it were a big consequence choice, intervene. Otherwise, let it go. Frankly, I would say that the chocolate smoothie is a very annoying but harmless. It does not have consequences if you give in and give her a chocolate smoothie : it won't kill you, it won't kill her, she won,t be sick, no one else will be sick, no one else will be hurt.... The problem also is the more she sees you annoyed (angry, furious...) whatever you want, she will continue over it. She will react to your negative feelings even more. So, show her that you will not let become affected by her controlling behavior : don't reply when she start the complaining party. Instead, congratulate her when she does something right, even if it sounds absolutely normal for everyone. What I would say is that she needs you attend what she does right. A good behavior at school ? Congratulate her. She cleaned up the table even if she was complaining ? Thank her for having done it. I would even say that the safest and most efficient punishment for harmless annoying behavior is pretending you didn't see, didn't hear, didn't touch, didn't taste and didn't smell. I didn't say that you should let go a health or safety issue, like having a fire. But if she starts to argue when you ask her to do something, you don't reply to her argument. Her argument is harmless annoying behavior. If you cannot ignore it, walk away. Intervene only when the danger is a real possibility, and not when she argues because of the green glass instead of the pink one you didn't propose her. I know it means shifting the way you discipline her. But I can assure you that if you attend her good behavior and ignore her harmless annoying behavior, you will not spoil her, you will not make her a brat. It is not easy, it is even the most difficult task I've ever done in my life towards people. What helped me most is reading The Explosive Child from Ross Greene. It is absolutely not specific for RADish, neither for ADHD, nor for bipolar.... But well, I can say that it was my sanity saver to manage my stepbrother and my (not less) difficult father. I found also a lot of valuable help by reading Love and Logic. I would say that The Explosive Child helped me to understand that not every issue is a matter of life and death and how to negotiate to make myself obey. I will say that Love and Logic is something more about setting boundaries without adding more mess to the mess. Both of these behavioral programs are absolutely not concurrent. Instead, they are very complementary in their approach. I can even say that you can use both of them at the same time. I can only advice you to read these two books. It won't cure your daughter, but it can only help you and your family.

quit letting her sleep in...and maybe give her TIME to"love" you, ok? have you ever been forced to love someone? put yourself in her shoes... i know it must be frustrating, but SHOW her you are consistent and love her, just find a way to make consequences not punishment for you! dont argue with her, but dont try and "make her cave" either... maybe she can start on the chores on a friday before, so she doesnt have to wake up to work on what feels like a "day off" ...

Two things stand out to me here. One is that you aren't getting the things you need. It would really help if your dh would switch off with you regarding who stays home with your daughter. It will help your resentment of him, it will give you a chance to recharge, and you won't feel so alone in this. The other one is that she is being given a lot of rope to hang herself with. I would stay with her while she does the chores. Do them with her. She does a step, you do a step. If she won't start, just be in the room with her. Stand there saying nothing. Don't react, don't get emotional, just be avaliable. It is a good idea to treat her like a much younger child. She is a younger child in a big body. A younger child would need a lot of help and direction to accomplish the chores you have given her, and she probably does also.

There's been a lot of good advice; I don't think I have anything to add. I just want to encourage you. What your daughter needs most in the world is for people to not give up on her. Every day that you stick with her, you're giving her what she most needs. Even if you're just beyond exhausted and frustrated with her (I know how that feels!). You've already stayed with her longer than a lot of people would have. She just needs you.

A lot of good advice. One thing I wonder is if she has ADHD? It sounds like she might have executive functioning issues on top of RAD. Would make the chores you describe much more difficult for her than they are for you. Also, my parents were "old school," but at 12, I had nothing like the amount of chores that she has, and I didn't have RAD but my room was a mess. It may work to limit the chores to one chore that she can be successful doing, for now. It doesn't sound like she is experiencing success anywhere in her life. What if you tried another tactic, spent 2 weeks doing things with her that she enjoys. As the others have said, presenting them as choices, "would you rather go horseback riding or to the movies?" See if the bed wetting gets better with as many positive experiences as possible, regardless of whether her chores are done or school issues. Take a shopping trip, and ask if she wants "a bracelet or a t-shirt?" Watch a movie with popcorn, and does she want this movie or that movie? Etc., etc. You both need to have more fun, control battles or no control battles. Your husband needs to be right there with you, not leaving you alone with this! I would stop spending Saturdays at home no matter what! Good luck, please keep us posted.

Also, she's failing 6th grade?! That is so important. Has the school done any assessment for learning disabilities? If you request it, they have to do assessment within 60 days, I believe it is federal law. The natural consequence for failing school is to have to go to school longer, repeating the grade with younger kids. I wouldn't pile the loss of movies, festivals, etc., on top of that. She must feel badly about doing so poorly in school on some level. I bet it is also affecting her behavior at home. Schools don't have much money these days, so they work to downplay learning disabilities, so I would consider getting an independent assessment to see what her status actually is. A neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician could do an assessment of what may be affecting her schoolwork in addition to RAD.

With all due respect, I strongly disagree with this. This is showing her that you are not in control, she is in control. For my kids, especially my RADish, it's a restatement "You can have fruit or a fruit smoothie." If she protests again, it's "You can have fruit, or a fruit smoothie, or nothing." If she protests again, then "Ok, you can have nothing, then." YOU are the one in control of the choices. SHE gets to choose from those choices. For my DD, who also continually bedwets, we simply have her in pullups at night (she's much younger, though ... not quite 6). We also put pee pads below her fitted sheet, because it makes cleanup easier. We change her sheets before she goes to bed. She has choices, but we control what those choices are. And we have to follow through with consequences, save those few times when I just lose my head and assign an unreasonable consequence. At those times, I apologize and assign a more reasonable consequence. We are dealing with wetting during the day and I have not found a solution to that yet. Drives me INSANE. We've tried pretty much everything and can NOT get it under control. She's physically capable, but chooses not to.

On the bedwetting issue, remember when we put heavy duty plastic over the mattress so all she had to wash was the blanket and sheet? Well, she decided, I don't know how long ago, to poke a hole in the center of the plastic and pee in it, over and over again. I couldn't figure out why it still smelled in her room until I saw the hole. This was no accidental tear, other wise she would have told me and we would have fixed it right away, the mattress was soaked. We had to throw it out. And we bought a foam mattress pad and a new waterproof washable cover. She now has to wash two load of stuff every time. She is paying it off with chores. Over the summer we decided to just have fun and not having that fun ruined by whether or not her chores were done. Most of the stuff in her room got taken away so that control battle was gone, and it was up to her to do her laundry if she wanted clean clothes to wear. She wants to earn something back then she needs to keep her room clean to show that she can handle personal belognings and take care of them. Even though the only thing in her room was school supplies and clothes, she still managed to destroy it, there were dirty dishes, trash, wrappers, ants... As far as the school thing, we've given up on that, it's the schools problem. They won't return calls or emails to get together to discuss her needs and we don't need anymore control battles over school work. I agree with minibus about choices. But I disagree with 1435 about not having chores and just having fun all the time. How about teaching them responsibility? How about them learning about choices and consequences? And she acts entitled whenever we do something fun. So we just do what we want to do and she comes along. If she acts up, she misses out. We once spent good money on decent seats at the ball park to see a game and when she saw a boy come back to his seat with a new jersey, a new hat, and a big ice cream, she said "That should be me." I was furious.

I suggest the trust jar. And her privileges would be at the level of trust age she is currently showing.When you know the choices will create an argument (fruit vs. chocolate smoothie). Ease the process by telling her she isn't going to like the choices, she'll throw a tantrum, so before you tell her what they are, she should please go ahead and throw her tantrum and get it over with. When she refuses to tantrum, say, OK YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE.... and present the 2 acceptable choices you have come up with. (She has to prove you wrong, so instead of whining she will gladly make a choice).Predict failure???? she'll prove you wrong by succeeding. Predict success? she'll prove you wrong by failing. As far as the bedwetting goes, I would hand her a towel each night, as you tell her you expect her to wet the bed tonight and you want her to be prepared. (On the prevention side, no liquid within an hour of bedtime, and also you must monitor that she has indeed peed before going to bed. It also sounds like she must be waking up in the night to do all this on purpose stuff. So perhaps a camera or motion sensor is in order (Babies need baby monitors!) I would also have her wear pull-ups or depends at night (or anytime she decides to pee) Then go ahead and buy stock in Nature's Miracle. (It takes awhile for mattresses to dry once they have had that applied and soaked in so she gets the floor until her bed it dry.)

yes, we make sure she doesn't drink any more liquids an hour before bed, and yes, she has three alarms that wake her up to go to the bathroom during the night. what no one seems to understand is that she doesn't care, she turns her alarm off and goes back to bed, she sneaks drinks after 8, she purposefully pees her bed, clothes, room, floor, furniture to push us away. i guess that's what drives me nuts the most, i was trying to work with her on her problem in the beginning, but then i wised up to it. she knows better, it's no accident. she knows what she is supposed to do, just choses not to. she says she doesn't like being told what to do. she wants control and only she can control her body. there is no consequence that help her to take responsibility for her choices. we are about to take the carpet out of her room because of the soiled clothes on the carpet. she knew that we bought a brand new mattress for her new room when she moved in and she knew how much we spent on it and she knew how important it was to take care of it and keep it clean, but she chose to ruin it anyway. that's the problem, why??? it is so frustrating and it doesn't matter if we make her sleep on rocks, she won't change and will just blame us for how uncomfortable her sleep has been. Well, let's see you HAD a $350 dollar pillow top, but you didn't want it so now it's gone. how's that MY fault? she doesn't care if she sleeps in her own urine every night as she has been until we discovered it, but we're "mean" for taking her mattress away. NO LOGIC!

It may take awhile, but she will be abandon this behavior in favor of new ones to push your buttons. I had an on purpose bedwetter. I do understand. I just wante dto cover all the bases. As for sneaking in the night, Alarm her bedroom door (Harbor freight has an excellent wireless motion alarm). Then TAKE AWAY the other alarms. I think that only serves to remind her to wake up and pee her bed. Also, I would start having her take melatonin (liquid spray can't be hidden in a cheek then spit out later).Let her try to blame you and respond with "I'm sure you feel that way", or "I understand why you would say that."

I know this is an old thread but just wondering, Lula - did you ever have any success? I am still struggling with the same issues with my now 13 y.o. My biggest issue is how no consequences, etc affect her...she is sooo blase about everything - I have read all of Nancy Thomas/Daniel Hughes books and tried every approach, been thru counseling, nothing has worked in fact it seems to be getting worse (i'm sure it's hormonal) I sooo want to have a good relationship with her, every morning I wake up with a clean slate and by the end of nearly every day she makes me feel crazy! Any ideas that have worked for you would be awesome!!!

Here's how things have changed since I posted this. 1. Grades only affect school activities, if there is a function going at school, she needs to have C's to participate. Otherwise, she can't go. Make sure the grades only affect school stuff,not home life.2. This now frees up privileges at home. We took the TV out of the living room, we have one in the master bedroom and one in the spare room, which has a keyed lock on the door. She is expected to have her room and bathroom "picked up" every day before she can go into the spare room to watch tv which also has a dvd player and an old game console. Parental controls are set on the TV and all rated R movies are in the master bedroom.3. Last year, she and I went through all her junk and threw out half of it, and donated the other half so she could see what was really important. Sometimes I have to help her learn how to organize her stuff, she hates it but it only takes a few minutes and it's lasts for weeks. 4. She is now old enough to stay home alone. And so far hasn't done anything drastic. We started by just going out to breakfast on Sundays, now we are gone all day until about 4 and she is still working on her chores when we get home. 5. We started having family movie nights on Fridays with pizza. Since chores don't start until Saturday, she can't sabotage the family time. She is allowed to stay up as late as she wants to on Friday and Saturday nights, so she sleeps in until 12 or so, giving us some much needed quiet time alone. As fas as mother daughter time, that ship has sailed. If you bond, she will push you away, she doesn't want to get close, so it scares her when you do some bonding. I try to be spontaneous about it, not do anything planned. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We just keep trying to enphasize that her choices affect her only. She has to keep relearning the cause and affect. Her thing is to blame others and circumstances and look for excuses rather than solutions. We she starts feeding me excuses I challege her to find a solution. She just wants control. Let her control her own environment not yours. Right now she is on thing about arguing and being really easy to set off. I am the one pushing her buttons! So we created a consequence jar. Taking away all her privileges every time she acts out is too much and too predictable. So I filled a jar with privileges that can be taken away AND chores that can be earned. Example, she yells, says something mean, and slams the door, I pull a piece of paper out of the jar and it could be loss of TV for the night or pick up dog poop, etc. When you say the consequences don't affect her, I bet they do but she's not going to let you know that, she's going to hide the fact that it bothers her, she wants it to appear that it doesn't bother her, but you have to find out what she really likes and take that away or make it something that's earned. And you have to stick to it, stay consistent, you know what they say, you have to outlast the child, like when a toddler has a tantrum, you can't give in no matter how long they cry. She will occasionally go on these weeks long strikes of not cleaning her room, yeah, so what, it doesn't affect me, I still get to watch TV, make sure the consequences only affect them, so they can't manipulate the entire family. Eventually she's give up the fight and gets it done. Also, she is very sneaky, I have to be on my toes all the time, she will try to find ways to cheat on her chores and hide stuff. I have to be very thorough on checking her chores. She has a laminated chore checklist that we check off with a dry erase marker every week which includes the spare room since she's the only one using it. I hope this helps. All you can try for it to get along, losing the dream of having a mother daughter relationship is one I am still in the mouring process and probably will be until she moves out.