Defining "reasonable access"

Here are a few of the recent threads about establishing boundries with bio family while still maintaing some contact.: [url]http://forums.adoption.com/openness-foster-care-foster-adoption/402040-how-decide-how-open.html[/url] [url]http://forums.adoption.com/openness-foster-care-foster-adoption/402743-initiating-oa-groundrules-after-adoption.html[/url] [url]http://forums.adoption.com/openness-foster-care-foster-adoption/393877-looking-advice-post-adoption-visits-irate-first-mom.html[/url] [url]http://forums.adoption.com/openness-foster-care-foster-adoption/393561-initial-boundary-expectation-setting-after-adoption.html[/url]

Open adoption agreements are legally enforceable in our State, and our attorney advised to only agree to what we could live with long-term. We agreed to 1 visit a year and 2 updates, with the stipulation that we could increase contact at our discretion. We can also discontinue the agreement if we determine that it is detrimental to our DD. But our DD's birth mother is not a relative, so I know that brings a whole different dynamic. Every two months seems like a lot to me. I would "legally" agree to less and if they happen more often when you see your niece, so be it. But at least you wouldn't be legally on the hook. Best wishes!

I read this as 2 x a month..........no way would I commit to seeing anyone 2 x month....life happens. I would only agree to a yearly minimum and allow visits to happen as often as it works.

We sent our niece and her attorney the document stating what our minimum is...pics/update once a year. Visits would be as previously agreed, we see her when our schedules meshed and that ends up being once every 1-2 months, although we did not specify that...just as mutually agreeable. This, of course, is not acceptable to them since it's what we've been doing for the last 2 years, except that I send pics/news more often. She wants more frequency, unsupervised visits with possible overnights. We had agreed to consider it, in mediation, if we felt it was appropriate. We don't and this won't change due to her circumstances. I believe this stance prompted her to get her attorney involved. They were going to set up another mediation, but I haven't heard anything for a week. I happened to mention that we felt visits shouldn't be on a set schedule and that we should be the ones to set the terms since she is serving a sentence for child endangerment. I'm wondering if he was unaware of her sentence! That wouldn't surprise me, she consistently hides info from everyone. There is no way we'd give her any kind of custody and even if we ended up in court over it (she doesn't have standing) I can't imagine a judge signing the order. Not only do we, the parents, object but the charges rule her out as an acceptable custodian. So, now we wait to hear from her side. My attorney isn't in the office for a couple of months, so they may be waiting until she can be present. My stress levels have hit new highs, yay:grr: Even though she doesn't have standing to file for anything, she will still try to stir up trouble and we'll still have to allocate our finances to legal charges. When this current issue is closed, we're taking a long break from it all!

Hi, Fellow relative adopter here (through foster care) :D I remember being where you are at like it was yesterday. how close do you live to your niece? Is she apt to drop in unannounced? Will she think she can spend the night? What are your thoughts on phone calls? skype? email? once every 1-2 months sounds very reasonable when you start, but its going to be hard long term. Life happens. Initially we saw them every 2 weeks its now tapered down to family get together's (sometimes 3 in a month, sometimes none for 3 or 4 months) It sounds like your niece hasn't yet accepted her change in role. She's still talking like you are taking care of HER kids. Not that you are going to be their mom. As hard as it it, really firm, clear boundaries will help her accept reality and move on with the new phase of these kids lives good luck

Hi! I've read some of your threads and could definitely identify with some of your experiences. We adopted in 2010, so we've been trying to work with her for a long time. There have been many conversations about appropriate behaviour and she'll tow the line for a while. But, eventually her nature overcomes her and we have lapses in judgement. You are right, she doesn't see us as the parents. She thinks we are her long-term babysitters and that she deserves a close relationship with the children. As you know, the children still love their first parents. The poor decisions that brought then into care aren't something they understand and don't change their feelings for her. THAT is why I've kept trying, for the kids. I've communicated when she's done something hurtful to them and have restricted visit type and location over the last 2 years. We just had another incident. She whispered to one of the children, "this is the last time you'll see me". I don't know what the exact words were, they were out of earshot, but it doesn't matter because the child "heard" the above and was distraught (I thought he was angry about something else). Then he told his siblings and they were confused and upset. They told me about it a couple of days later and by that time I had been communicating with her attorney. She figured visits would be on hold until the legal issues were resolved but she was WAY out of line for saying that. I believe that she feels validated when the kids are in pain. I've decided to require her to attend therapy in order to have anymore visits, after our break. She doesn't think she is doing anything wrong and it's time to realize that she is emotionally manipulating them. This, coupled with her grief at the loss of her family, needs to be addressed so that she CAN have a positive relationship with the kids, and hopefully us. I'm sure this will cause another rift in the extended family, but that's the way it goes. It happens periodically, anyway, as she tries to rally support for her side.

Wow! That was definitely over the line. I would absolutely cancel the next visit. tell her the kid needs therapy before she sees her again DUE TO BM's ACTIONS

I'd further point out that was "strike one" I'm so sorry

Not only should she have the therapy you mentioned, but if you ever restart visits, you should never let the children walk off with her out of ear shot. Each time you have a visit, she gets a chance to show she is safe and appropriate. It might takes years for her to get it and understand.

We have stopped visits until she's been in therapy for a year. They can restart if she's made an honest effort with a therapist and I included the caveat that we must be able to tell the therapist our concerns before deciding to see her again. I contacted her lawyer and gave him the terms as well as the reasons. He seemed concerned over this last episode (of which there have been several), as well as understanding our stance as parents. I'm sure it's not over, but this decision won't change unless she puts in some effort to recognize her behaviors. New development. We traveled to see family recently and spent time with my in-laws, who are first mom's family. The kids spent two nights with bio grandma, which we've done for the past 3 yrs. I offered to install the carseat and boosters before I left. I was told that it wasn't necessary, they'd stay home or walk to the other grandparents' house a few blocks away. I was hesitant, but they assured me it wasn't needed. The entire family knows how important safety restraints are to me...we've talked about it often. Found out that minutes later their aunt took the boys to get carry-out in her car!!!! They are 4 and 7 and much too small for seatbelt only AND it's illegal in that state. The next day they got into the car to visit the other grandparents a few blocks away and the boys were in the back, not wearing seat belts, and my 8 yr old sat in front with a seatbelt. THEN, bio grandma says to the kids that they couldn't tell me because if I found out I wouldn't let them stay with her again. The children always end up telling me, so I found out a couple of hours after I picked them up. I was lied to, they put my children at risk, broke the law, THEN asked the kids to lie to me in order to cover up their actions!!!! After the rage passed and I could think about it clearly, I think that I've figured out her motivation. I have to assume that she doesn't really want them to spend the night with her and she made choices that obligated me to decide for everyone. She will look like the victim because her mean SIL(me) won't let her have unsupervised visits anymore. I am, again, cast in the light of an ogre by denying the kids a certain type of access to their bio relatives. I believe the first mom did the same thing. Why else would they do the exact things they KNOW will have that consequence? If it weren't for a few people in that family that I love and AM friends with, I'd write my in-laws off as impossible.