adoption or abortion?

Wow I am new to this site and I am a christian also. I do have to agree with you Loveangel. And unfortunately we cannot change peoples minds how they feel. As a christian we are always being told that we are judging others when ususally it is jsut the opposite we are being judged for beiing a christian. I do not believe that abortion is the right answer. Do I believe that God can forgive, yes I do. To admit that you are a christian and then to admit that you are pro-choice worries me. If you say you believe in God and then say having sex before you are married and being punished for having sex. I am hoping that I have read that wrong. God isn't punishing any of us by allowing us to get pregnant. Our actions are our choice, that is the only thing that God has give us, except for his son, he has given us a FREE WILL OF CHOICE. But to judge is not up to us. We can give our opinions just like everyone else. But unfortunately, when writing it does sound like judging at times. I am a mother of 4 who was not capable of having any children of my own. I have been blessed with the children that I do have. To hear about abortions is just like hearing someone blasphem my GOD. God has made each and everyone of us. Even that unborn baby that those of you think should be aborted. God doesn't make junk, and none of us are junk. Let's remember the next time we think about abortion, that what if our parents gave us up for abortion, we wouldn't be here right now with the beautiful children that we are blessed with. And what about the baby, that poor little innocent baby, who is/was living inside of you who has no choice on whether to live or die. Who give any of us that right. That is a human being inside of their who has a right to speak, but can't so they depend on their parents to be their voice. Not their murders.

Most of us do care about the people who exist and do try to help and save them in different ways. Embryo's do exist, pregnancies do exist. This tread is entitled "adoption or abortion?" So those of us who are "ranting" and have "passionate views and strengths" (such as yourself AnGel_UK,) are posting them on the appropriate thread. I believe that most women who are becoming pregnant do have the choice whether to become pregnant or not in the first place. I think it would save them much more turmoil if they had made safer or better choices to begin with (using reliable protection, or having some self control, not having sex with someone they aren't prepared to parent with in the first place). I can't imagine what it would be like wondering about a baby I'd aborted. Imagining how old they were or what life would have been like if they were still alive. I can't imagine that pain. I know for many women it exists. Probably as it would giving up a baby for adoption. Except in one case your baby is alive in the other it is dead. I do believe that in most cases there is a right and wrong and much of the time the right thing to do isn't the easiest. I am just so sad for those of you women who have felt that terminating your pregnancy was the best thing for you and your unborn baby. I really am. I am sad that there might not have been the support around you you needed to raise your child.

I totally agree with you MJ. We do have such a strong Passion for our belief. And it does affect us to read and hear about these woman who choose to use abortion instead of adoption, being either way it could be hurtful, but at least with the one, no one is being hurt. Ihave never been able to have children, so I am probably a bit more distraught about this subject. Being as though one of those babies could have been mine or someone elses. Good Job:-)

Re: judging......that statement went a bit too far, IMO. At least let us be honest and fair here. Within Christianity there is a belief that "convincing" others to accept your belief will "save" them. It is that very fundamental belief; one that does not exist in many other religions, that brings about some "feeling judged". When it is a absolute fact that Christians believe I am going to Hell because I am not Christian, that kinda makes you feel a bit judged! I don't have a problem with you believing what you do, but c'mon now, don't try to turn it around! Debi

Deb, I am not sorry for being a christian and for spreading the Gospel. But on the other hand, I am definetly not wanting to be pushing my religious beliefs on anyone. I would never say that you are going to hell for not believing, that is a very harsh statement that I am not PERMITTED to say. That is up to God and any of us will know our eternity when our time comes if not sooner. As a believer I do wish everyone would feell the excitement that I do knowing that I have a place with my Lord and Savior, but that is my only fault in being a christian is wanting to save the world. But then again, that is who I am, wanting to not just save the world but also those poor helpless children. Can I ask you a question?????????? Did you by any chance, see the movie "The Passion of the Christ"? Even if you say you arent' a christian, I urge you to see it, again, I'm not trying to push anything on you or your beliefs. Heidi

This will be my last post on this subject, as it is totally off topic. I addressed your comment that the poor Christians get accused of being judgmental, while actually being the ones that are getting judged. Believe it or not, I am quite happy and excited within my own faith! If the movie you speak of is the new Mel Gibson one, I wouldn't spend my $$. I will probably see it down the road as a video. I can not even begin to imagine how a motion picture, comprised of ONE MAN'S belief would be used as a means of explaining religion? If we are using that medium, I prefer Jesus Christ Superstar. Geesh. Debi PS Nobody has asked you to be sorry you spread the Gospel. I only asked that you not complain about how judged you are while you do it.

Deb I too didn't expect any of this, and I wasn't feeling sorry for myself as a Christian. I respect you for the beliefs that you do have. And I certainly wasn't COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING JUDGED! I could really care less what people judge me of because they are of no concern to me. I do apologize for my words upsetting you. Have a Wonderful Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, please accept my apology

I've followed the turns that this thread has taken with great bemusment. Mama, you say: and then you write: Did you know that Mel Gibson, the writer, producer, & director of the film you so love has publicly stated that anyone (including his wife) that doesn't believe in his brand of Catholicism is darned (can't say "****ed" on this board!) to hell? How's that for judgementalism? As so many have said before: adoption is an alternative to parenting while abortion is an alternative to pregnancy! And another thing: Did you ever think that someone's inability to breed might be god's way of saying that such a person wasn't supposed to be a parent? Could it be that adoption is a violation of god's will? Or do we just live in a world of utter chaos in which we accept simple answers to complex questions and then use those answers as an excuse to crap on the rest of mankind?

I don't believe PrayingMammaof4's comments were intended to offend anyone. Not all Christians believe that non-Christians are going to hell in fact many like to believe that is not the case. But all know it is for God Almighty to decide. Chickenrunshrek, your comment was very insensitive implying that it might not be God's will that people with infertility issues, "inability to breed", cannot have children--regardless of how you phrased/questioned it. Most people desiring to have children do not intentionally make the choice to be infertile. And for many people, yes, they struggle with that same question "Is it God's will that I parent?", so to throw that in the faces of many people on this site is really not necessary. And to answer your question of it being a violation of God's will if we adopt; my son deserved to be adopted. What on earth should have become of him? Being left to die on the streets? Does he not deserve loving healthy parents who desired a child so much, fertile or infertile? I could include biblical references of adoption to answer your questions, but by the tone of your post, I doubt you really care anyway. In case I am wrong, check a bible concordance and look up "adoption" or the story of Moses. BTW, I do agree that adoption is an alternative to parenting but abortion is not an alternative to pregnancy (you have to have pregnancy to abort your baby), perhaps it is an alternative to giving birth. Just wanted to clarify.

Does anyone else notice that this thread is in the "Adoption Forums > Unplanned Pregnancy > Abortion Alternatives > adoption or abortion?"? There are Christian threads available for those that want to post Christian thoughts and beliefs. IMO, this is not a thread for religious discussion.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Chickenrunshrek, where are you coming from. #1 I was tring not to say that if you aren't a christian you are going to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But now that you are sooooooooo attimate on going down that road with such HARSH statements, I will go to my DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!! I am a believer and I do believe that you have to be saved in order to get into Heaven. As for Mel Gibson, I can't speak for him, but I sure can speak on his FRUITS!!!!!!!! "For we will know them by their fruits" And where do YOU get off saying that it might be Gods way of telling someone that they aren't meant to be a parent just because they are infertile?????? HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!! What about the parents that shouldn't be parents, who beat and abuse their children, is that God telling them that they SHOULD BE PARENTS!!!!!!!!! What a contradiction. And how on Earth can you say that ADOPTION is a VIOLATION OF GODS WILL. I have to agree with MJ, what BIBLE are you reading????????? I am not able to have children, but I believe that MY GOD has given me the GIFT of taking care of SPECIAL CHILDREN who need to be loved and nurtured. Where are these children suppose to go???? Have you adopted any children??????? Dlouis, I'm sorry that you feel that these religious discussions shouldn't be on this site. This is Adoption/abortion, so IMO since I am a Pro-Lifer, my religious beliefs go along with abortions, and unfortunately I will voice my opinion as I feel needed, especially when it comes to such a sensitive subject.

Perhaps it would calm things down if it was understood that Chickenrunshreck is an ADOPTIVE FATHER. (it is a good idea to check someone's profile before slamming) His comments, (as I read them) were intended to do 2 things, #1 demonstrate how many different ways the bible can be interpreted. And #2 to show what it is like to have somebody USE their personal interpretations to to prove a point. (Chicken, if I got it wrong, please feel free to correct me) Prayingmama, you may not have MEANT to insult me, but you did. The point about the movie was just that. It is a HOLLYWOOD MOVIE. The fact that it is being made into more than that is frightening to me! Debi PS I read that Mel Gibson's father has claimed the holocaust was mostly fiction! And that concentration camps were just "work camps" Interesting?????? PSS this thread has become totally off topic, and that is rude to the thread started, no matter what an indivual poster believes their "rights" are, IMO

Deb, to try and start this out without offending you or chickenrunshrek. I was just stating MY opinion as well everyone else has. I don't really think it would've mattered if I would have read his profile or not, I did ask if he/she adopted because I felt that his comments were very offensive. But, that topic is not worth discussing on this board anymore. As for the religious points, again, here I go voicing MY OPINION. This isn't a debate about Mel Gibsons movie, we all have our own beliefs on that also. This was a discussion about abortion/adoption. And I will be not be so open on my opinions next time. I do apologize to the person who started this topic if I did get off topic, but that is how I feel about adoption/abortion.

Yet again, one man's opinion is something else for another! I never really get this, bringing something up, then saying you didn't mean to talk about it......feeling quite justified when defending yourself, (thereby insinuating that another person attacked or criticized you) yet being baffled when another person does EXACTLY the same thing! I think it is important to understand that a single individual's intent never creates a standard on a thread. How the comments are taken, the feelings they produce in another, is valid and real. To say "Your feelings are invalid because offending you wasn't my intent" is bizarre. But hey, WHATEVER!! Debi

Hey all, Sorry to do this but the thread is locked I hope for obvious reasons. Everyone take a cool down lap and come back. Start whatever new threads you like, but this one's done.