Bio Father Contested,very Afraid In Tn.

WELL I HAVE SPOKEN WITH QUITE A FEW ATTORNEYS AND THEY ALL SAY THAT HE KNEW HE WAS TOLD HE WAS THE FATHER AND HE NEVER TRIED TO FIND OUT. THEY ARE SAYING SINCE HE NEVER EVEN TRIED TO DO ANYTHING EVEN WHEN I TOLD HIM HE WAS THE FATHER IT IS CONSIDERED ABANDONMENT. YOU SEE HE COULD'VE TAKEN ME TO COURT TO ESTABLISH PATERNITY AND A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CHILD AND HE DID NOT. THE FACT THAT HE CHOSE TO IGNORE THE FACT THAT HE COULD HAVE HAD A CHILD IN THIS WORLD AND DID NOTHING I HOPE WILL BE HELD AGAINST HIM. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING THOUGH. BUT EVERYONE WHO I HAVE TALKED TO SAID THAT SINCE I HAVE THE PROOF THAT HE KNEW ABOUT OUR DAUGHTER AND THE FACT THAT THE BIO FATHERS MOM HAS EVEN VISITED WITH THE CHILD SHOWS THAT THE FATHER HAS NEVER SHOWN ANY INTREST IN BEING IN OUR CHILDS LIFE. YOU ARE STARTING TO SCARE ME WITH ALL OF YOUR ADVICE. IF YOU DON'T MIND MY ASKING, WHAT EXACTLY HAVE YOU BEEN THROUGH PERTAINING TO MY SITUATION?

Basically when you remove the emotional issues from the situation you are left with the basic question. Will a court terminate the parental rights of a parent (presuming he is shown to be the parent through a DNA test) due to their lack of activity in the child's rearing and or maintenance after a couple of years? The answer to these two questions is really specific to your state's law and federal appeals from any such rulings and their respective findings. In my humble opinion the lack on both sides, that of your negligence in not enforcing paternal responsibilities and his for not submitting to them voluntarily makes this a difficult situation to call. Using abandonment as the element in the push to terminate his parental rights is murky since he could argue that he did not believe he was the father, and given that you never attempted to establish paternity this would also be indicative of your beliefs (hell say) that he was possibly not the father, or worse yet your attempts at keeping him from the child. If his name in not on the BC, then he had no legal right to visit or obligation to pay support. Once in court, then comes the true behavior of most witnesses on the stand, "to lie and tell nothing but a lie". Fabricating a myriad of reasons of how YOU kept him from the child. Your tapes are going to be thrown into a match of sound bites and the ғhe said and ԓshe said three stooges routine, and unless he said something indicating pathology or other severer mental illness, are not going to be that probative. I would probably say that if the father (assuming he is) has the resources to fight you on the termination he stands a good chance of contesting such termination. However these things are not viewed in a vacuum and as such no definitive answer is available. IԒve seen judges make some pretty whacky decisions and appeals cost tens of thousands. The case will be decided on the totality of the facts, the current precedent and the judges internalӔ guidance. Sure the judge will look at the best interests of the child as the most important issue here. But his/her interpretation of this standard and yours may be different. Remember that the majority of courts in the US tend to rule in a fashion that reasonablyӔ keeps biological ties in place. Even in the direst of welfare cases where true and gross abuse is apparent the courts have an obligation to reunify where possible and terminate only under the direst of circumstances. The priors he had are insignificant and my advice is as follows: ~If you are well moneyed then face the matter head on. Excellent lawyer and strong aggressive attackin discovery, in timing and in inconvenience to the putative father, make his life hellŅa good lawyer REALLY can! Make the SOB understand you will FIGHT. If he is just being a gnat he will back down, if he is in it for a fight, then the lawyers will make lots of money and the result may still not be what you want. ~If you think he is bluffing and really does not care for the child or to be part of the childs life, then file and be as generous as possible including him in the process so that he and you are not antagonistic. In other words have a sit down and present him with a draft of the voluntary termination and ask for his input and ask when he can meet with your lawyer to get things in place, or you meet with his lawyer. Be cooperative. If this doesnҒt work you can always revert to the above scenario, and if it does, well the lawyers will just have to buy new cars from the fees of a different case. Good luck. Samuelcv

WELL I CERTAINLY THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ADVICE. OF COURSE I HAVE READ OTHER CASES VERY SIMILAR TO MINE,EVEN WHERE THE FATHER HAS SUPPORTED A LITTLE AND HIS RIGHTS WERE STILL TERMINATED. I'M JUST GOING ON THAT HOPE. THE BIO FATHERS WITNESSES ARE GOING TO SAY THAT I NEVER TOLD HIM THAT I WAS PREGNANT FACE TO FACE. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE GOING ON. FIRST HIS DEFENSE WAS THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW I WAS PREGNANT,THEN IT WAS THAT IT WASN'T HIS, NOW IT IS THAT I NEVER TOLD HIM FACE TO FACE THAT I WAS PREGNANT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT DIFFERENCE THAT MAKES. HE DID SEE ME TWICE WHEN I WAS PREGNANT AND THREATENED TO CALL THE POLICE ON ME FOR HARASSMENT IF I WAS TO EVEN COME CLOSE TO HIM. THAT IS THE TYPE OF PERSON I'M DEALING WITH. MONEY IS NOT GOING TO BE AN OBJECT. I HAVE A GOOD ATTORNEY AND I WILL APPEAL TO THE COURT IF IT DOESN'T GO MY WAY. BUT WHAT I AM UNDERSTANDING FROM YOUR FEEDBACK IS THAT BASICALLY I AM GOING TO LOOK BAD. AND THAT IS SCARY.

Good job, sounds like you learned a lot from your experience. Sometimes lawyers need to practice "tough love" with their clients and advocate what will be and not what one wants. Shame is that the majority of them do not because they almost always win (their fees) regardless if their clients do or do not. Be wary... A judge once told me..."if you want justice look to God, if you want law, look to the courts...." Samuelcv

Wow...interesting thread and wonderful responding posts. I hate to intrude on this very delicate matter, but as I read it I couldn't help but wonder why you allowed this to occur? If you indeed put someone else's name on your childs birth certificate then you have done her a grave injustice; AND you've committed a fraud by lying on an official document. Babies aren't meant to be handed out as door prizes to the person who stands by the mom during her pregnancy. The line that says "father" should list her true father on it; it doesn't say "guy who supports you" or the "guy you're considering marrying someday." Just b/c the parents don't get along doesn't mean a fathers rights should be terminated, and niether does having someone else in your life who you feel would make a better father. You have actually put a whole new spin on identity theft and if you read any of the posts where adoptees are struggling with who they are, you will know that your actions were not appropriate and may cause your child to suffer emotionally someday; it appears there were valid reasons for his confusion as to who her father is. JMHO...MissyM

FIRST OF ALL, MISSY, IN MY DEFENSE EVERYONE WHO I HAD CONSULTED BEFORE I DECIDED TO PUT MY HUSBAND ON THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE SAID THAT IT WOULD BE OKAY. THEY SAID THAT SINCE I WAS MARRIED THAT IT WOULD MAKE HIM LIKE HER FATHER ANY WAY. AND HELLO- SINCE THE BIRTH FATHER WAS NOT GOING TO BE THERE AND HAD NO DESIRE TO BE THERE, I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE A PIECE OF PAPER TELLL HIM TO BE THERE. I AM SORRY THAT YOU THINK I PUT MY CHILD AT RISK. THAT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION. AND HOW DARE YOU DEFEND HER FATHER. I WAS LIVING WITH HIM WHEN I GOT PREGNANT. I TOLD HIM I WAS PREGNANT AND HE KICKED ME OUT ONTO THE STREET. I HAD NO TRANSPORTATION,NO FAMILY, NO FRIENDS. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO HAVE A MISCARRIAGE FROM STARVATION. YET I KEEP CALLING HIM TO SEE MAYBE IF HE HAS YET TO HAVE IT IN HIS HEART TO CHANGE AND WANT TO BE A PART OF OUR CHILDS LIFE.SO YOU WANT TO CONDEM ME FOR WANTING TO TERMINATE HIS RIGHTS AFTER HIM NEVER EVEN CARING ABOUT HIS CHILD. HOW DARE YOU. I NEVER INTENTIONALLY COMMITED FRAUD. I HAVE ONLY TRIED TO PROTECT MY DAUGHTER FROM A DRUG ADDICT ALCOHOLIC FATHER AND I SEE NO CRIME IN THAT. HE HAS HAD TWO YEARS TO FIND OUT IF MY CHILD WAS HIS BUT HE NEVER CARED. BUT HE SURE SHOWED ENOUGH INTREST WHEN I FIRST GOT PREGNANT TO PAY FOR AN ABORTION. I DID NOT JUST GO OUT AND PICK AND CHOOSE WHO WAS GOING TO BE THE FATHER OF MY BABY. HER BIO FATHER MADE IT THIS WAY. EVEN HIS OWN MOTHER KNOWS THAT HE WOULD BE A TERRIBLE INFLUENCE ON HER GRAND BABY. SO THAT HAS TO TELL YOU SOMETHING.

SORRY IF I SOUND SO DEFENSIVE. I WAS A CHILD WHO HAD A DAD THAT PAID SUPPORT AND GOT ME EVERYOTHER WEEKEND AND THOSE WEEKENDS ARE THE MOST HORRIBLE AND UNJUST MEMORIES IN MY LIFE. I HATED BEING AWAY FROM MY MOTHER. HATED IT . AND I DO NOT HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH MY FATHER TO THIS DAY. AND I WAS ALWAYS GOING TO TELL MY DAUGHTER WHEN SHE WAS YOUNG TOO, WHO HER FATHER IS. THAT WAY SHE COULD MAKE HER OWN DECISION WHETHER SHE WANTED A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER FATHER. AND I WOULD ALWAYS BEG HIM TO JUST MEET ME HALFWAY. I JUST BEGGED HIM TO BE MY FRIEND FOR OUR CHILDS SAKE. AND HE COULDN'T DO IT. EVEN WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS CONTESTING THE ADOPTION I CALLED HIM AND AMONG OTHER THINGS I TOLD HIM THAT IF HE WAS TO RECIEVE VISITATION THAT I WANTED US TO BE ABLE TO GET ALONG FOR OUR DAUGHTERS SAKE. AND THAT IF HE WERE TO GET VISITATION IF WE COULD WORK SOMETHING OUT TO EASE HER INTO IT BECAUSE IT WOULD BREAK HER HEART IF I JUST GAVE HER TO A STRANGER. SHE DOESN'T GO TO DAYCARE BECAUSE I AM A STAY AT HOME MOM SO SHE DOES NOT LIKE ANYONE NEW. I'M JUST KEEPING THE ATTITUDE THAT I NEED TO TRUST GOD, NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTCOME. EVEN IF HE DOES GET VISITATION I WILL KNOW THAT GOD HAS A PLAN FOR ALL OF US INVOLVED.

I am sorry to intrude on this discussion, but I can't help but wonder why you are going to these great lengths? Your husband is on the birth certificate (right, wrong, whatever). Why are you going after your ex to terminate his rights to allow your hubby to adopt? Isn't his name on the certificate "enough" to qualify her for anything she would qualify for as his (adopted) child? Ress

The placing of the non-biological father's name on the BC (a public health/governmental record) was, hypothetically, at best an error of desperation for the welfare of the child, or in protection of the honor of the mother. At worst it could constitute documentary fraud of public records. If so, each and every use thereafter of this falsified information causes a compound incident of possible illegality. As to it the belief that it is a shield to an adoption fight on the biological fathers part as to his right to maintain and or establish his parental rights, this would be sheer folly. The adages governing the law's view are best seen in the statements: "equity does equity and "to seek equity one must come with clean hands". In fact, if I were the father (bio) I would offer into proof this act to establish the high level of deception and fraud utilized by the mother to prevent the father from establishing his rights in any real manner. It would also support the argument that given this stated dishonesty by the mother he was justified in not presuming the rights or obligations as it pertains to the child, and thus is entitled to establish, maintain and continue his parental rights. This is purely speculative, but I feel it would play very well in a tribunal. I would still suggest a mediated resolution seeking a voluntary termination. There are religious, public and private mediators for this. In fact in some jurisdictions (most) one can ask for mediation in a contested action as a precursor to a trial on the merits and facts. Good luck Samuelcv [url]www.naftaexecutives.com[/url]

To make a long story short, Ress, the mother to the bio father of my daughter(the grandmother,all that make sense?) wanted to be a part of the childs life. You see when I was pregnant she told me she would go on the doctors visits with me and that she wanted to be there for the child and that she would call ME back, and I never heard from her again. Then in Nov. I see the grandmother and she sees her grand baby and then keeps telling me how sorry she was that she hasn't been there and that she is so sorry that her son is 'no good',as she put it. Well she wanted to keep in contact with me just to see how my daughter was doing and I told her to take it slow out of my respect for my family.Well she starts calling everyday wanting to see my daughter all the time,telling me that she knows her son is a bad influence but she thinks he would change if he was made to be a part of the childs life. So basically my husband felt that it was time to legally adopt my child, due to the pressure of what we felt was the grandmother threatning to pursuade her son to get visitation. Does that make sense? And just because my husband was on the bc did not mean that the bio father could not just one day say 'hey, i want a dna test ordered because she told me I was the father of that child and I have reason to believe that I am'. So I knew that the whole time. So I just wanted to protect my childs stability. Can you understand that. I was never going to lie to her about where she came from. That would be horrible. But I just wanted to give her the stability that I never had growing up and having to go see my bio dad.

I was not judging you..merely offering some humane advice. I actually wish you luck. If the bio-dad is an SOB he doesnt deserve that you or your daughter should shed a tear for him. Honestly I am just giving you an educated, personal opinion. Believe it or not I actually charge for sage advice :D. Just kidding. Good luck....and may your result be in "the best interest of the child". I apologize if you felt I was chastising you.....really. I believe that no one shoud comment as to your rationale for your actions unless they have walked in your shoes. samuelcv

OK...what I dared to do was to respond to a question that you posted in an open forum where I happen to be registered, nothing more nothing less. How I could I possibly be defending someone I never met and will likely never meet? IMHO he isn't the one who needs to be defended; at least not according to your post... Listen, its useless for us to go back and forth; I feel you have all the confusion and drama you can handle at this time. Please take all the rage and energy you are focusing on me and put it where it'll do some good. Your post has said a lot about your situation and I honestly feel sorry for you and your family. Excuse me for not offering you the advice you were hoping to hear; perhaps you should continue to post and gather words of wisdom from the others...Best Wishes....MissyM

Thank you...I never meant to suggest you would lie to your daughter or anything. I'm just mroe of the "let sleeping dogs lie" kind of person, and since it seems like this is very upsetting to you, I just didn't see why you would continue on your course when the ex doesn't think your child is his in the first place. More like, "well, if he doesn't want to be around now, he probably won't in the future, so save your time, energy and money and let it go". I'm sorry to have offended you. As for the grandmother, I would just tell her, if you dropped it, that since her son doesn't feel that the child is his, you need to respect that and not treat her as a grandmother to your child. And, lastly, you might be asking a lot of the guy to get him to admit paternity just to turn around and sign it away, everything else aside. I wish you luck though. Ress

Sorry to come into this so long after the discussion took place, but if TN is anything like IN (and I'd guess they are since we're in the Midwest!), the husband is automatically named as the father on the birth certificate UNLESS that husband challenges the paternity (thinking that his wife cheated on him). So IF you were married at the time your child was born, your child is LEGALLY your husband's...He is LEGALLY bound to care for your child (financially and emotionally) for the rest of that child's life...that is, unless your husband CHALLENDED the paternity of the child at the time of birth. And it sounds like he did not, so my guess is that you don't have to worry about compounding legal liabilities, etc. (In Indiana, the state does not give the nod to the bio dad if he conceived a child with a married woman---their thought?: "serves him right!" Hey, it's Indiana...we're a little 'old school'). But...for anyone still reading this board: I'd be curious to know if a husband (now ex-husband) can challenge the paternity 11 years later and get his child support back?! Does he have to prove that his wife at the time knowingly "tricked" him into thinking it was his child?! Just curious. Thanks.

Best guess would be that laches applies so that due to the time factor the matter would not be timely for litigation in family court. However if actual malfeasence or fraud could be shown an action for fraud or unjust enrichment might not be barred by time. Due to the fact that some jurisdictions hold that a tort of fraud is not considered to have been voided by the statute of limitations until the matter should have been reasonably discovered. Just a lay persons view......good luck.