adopting the "older" older child

I understand your frustration. I had no idea how blessed we were in our last adoption until I requested information from agencies where we recently moved. One of the agencies sent me policy information, including a very specific policy that they will NOT place adoptive children out of birth order (they also won't place children within 12 months of any sibling, won't place within 12 months of the addition of any child in the family, etc, etc, etc). Turns out, some agencies have some pretty harsh ideas about how you can go about adopting. And, yes these people can stop you from adopting. So, you have two choices. You can either sell your right to adopt this child to the agency you are working with OR you can start over with another agency that is more flexible in their placement policies. One is expensive, the other can be degrading. Welcome to the world of adoption! We have to justify our right and ability to adopt to all sorts of people.

Well truthfully I can understand the concren for placing a girl the same age as your oldest daughter! The first and most important issue here is that the agency does NOT want to see the placement for adoption FAIL. It is too hard on the children to experience a failed placement and compounds the issues these older children have to overcome. The only concern of the agency is the success of the child they place with you. Having said this please take some time and read the threads here under special needs and older child placements....read the archievs as well. Do you want your biological daughter to be exposed to another little girl who has been sexually abused? Who might clmb out the window at night to meet boys--or who might have them cralw through the window into your home? Do you want your daughter to have a sister who stands in your kitchen and screams how much she hates you--or who trashes your home because she has attachment issues--and cannot cope with the love you want to offer? Do you want your sons to be molested? Or exposed to a girl who may show them things about life you would rather wait for them to learn? Adopting an older child is often NOT a matter of them coming into your home and being so happy to have a wonderful family who loves them.....it is often a hard and long emotional journey. Do not fool yourself into thinking that ANYONE will be able to tell you that a 12 year old girl has not been sexually abused--or does not have deep emotional issues.... What will you do with your newly placed daughter if you discover she has shown your daughter how to smoke pot? What will you do if your adopted daughter hurts your bio daughter---cuts up all her clothes or bites her or harms her is some way? What will you do if the new daughter abuses you in front of your bio children--scratche you or attacks you? What if your family needs to install room alarms in order to be sure the new child doesn't get up in the middle of the night and slash all the toys in the house? Most families would send the newly adopted child away! This cannot happen to these older children....saying that our family will love a child to the point that child would not hurt anyone else is naive. Besides often these children from Foster care NEED to be the only children--Often the agencies ask the older children if they WANT other siblings? Most of the time older children either want to be an only child or the youngest child..... It is true and we have all heard the great stories of an older child entering a new family with NO porblems--so happy to have a mom and dad and siblings that the whole world is singing--but, it is sadly more true that an older child placed into a new home will come with angry and rage and test the family so hard and for so long that it is more then the family can handle.... Your daughter believes she will have a new best friend and wants a sister.....she may find the worst enemy of her life! She may be the target she may become so hurt that this could end up causing your child more harm then you could even imagine.... The agencies are not placing a child in your hame for your needs they are placing the children for the needs of the child....The agency sees that your desire is to provide a playmate for your daughter---and you could be in for a most horrible eye opening experience....the child you are asking for may have seen more in her 12 years of life then you have even imagined!

I agree with Anna on this one. The people that work with these kids know what would be the best situation for these children. They are looking out for the child as well as you and your children. Even though we have said we would like to adopt a child 0-7. We have been told it would be better for everyone involved if we didn't go that close to our oldest age, he is 8. They said we would do better 0-5. So, our wait will be longer. They have also said that if a 6 or 7 year old comes up that they don't believe would be a threat to my oldest we could eb considered. There's alot at stake and they don't want the child to be hurt anymore than the already have been.

Wow, I'm not sure that I was looking for a scolding that makes me look so naive. I'm quite aware of all of the what ifs. I am realistic enough to believe, though, that no matter how much you screen ANY child (regardless of age), you will not know their true colors until they actually live with your family. This is a true risk and no one can guarantee you anything. I think that all you have mentioned could be true of any child that comes with a traumatic background. Our kids might even be playing with them at school right now. I've seen a lot of really disturbed younger children and that scares me more than the troubled older child. Our bio kids could turn out to be more troubled than some of the waiting kids. Actually, are not looking for a playmate for my daughter. We are looking for someone she can relate to and a 10 year old is not the right fit. We were asking for 12-14. The caseworker told us a week prior to this conversation, that she placed a 12 year old in a home with another 12 year old and it was wonderful. Thanks for the "reminders" though.

I agree also. These older children come into the family with many experiences (experiences our biological children don't have). In fact, my 7 yo recently placed daughter has taught my 16 and 12 yo biological sons some interesting things.... An older child will be quite challenging. I can almost guarantee that your biological children will ask at some point if the new child can be returned. There will be resentment. It won't be a great big happy family for a long time. I am SO glad there are 5 years between my youngest and our new daughter, for a lot of reasons. First, children from foster care are usually developmentally delayed. Therefore, they can't be treated like another child of the same age. If there is an age difference, this discrepancy isn't as noticable. Also, my new daughter requires a disproportional amount of my time and attention. I think children kind of expect this if the child is younger. I don't mean this harshly, but I truly think you are dreaming if you think your daughter and your new child will get along as siblings any time soon. They have such different backgrounds, experiences, and expectations. I really believe is adopting in birth order. I know others have done it out of order with success, but I'm not one of them.

I don't beleive Anna was scolding you. I beleive she was just stating some facts. Anna is in the position of the been there done that. She was only informing not scolding.;)

waiting home--I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding you or to say that you do not have an idea of the situation you might be facing.... Often I write my post to the lurking readers too.... Yes, your children may in fact have problems or go to school with other children who have even bigger problems....but, your children have had you as the parent their whole lives....My BIOS had problems too but, we had a history together and they trusted me--I could lose my temper with them and not fear the consequences..... My bio daughter was 18 when her 5 year old sister moved in.....and our five year old came with a relatively 'clean' background as far as we knew---My bio daughter left for college 6-MOS later with a contributing factor being the amount of attention and chaos our home was after the little ones were placed. She had the option to move on.....and not deal with the deep and long issues our family has had to deal with. My 18 year old had a vision of how it would be to have a little sister in her life....and that vision was very different from the reality of what we found. We have had our little girl who is now only 6 for just over a year. In this time daddy has had to deal with her touching him in the wrong way and so to has my 20 year old son! It has been painfully difficult for grown men to deal with this IN THEIR HOME. They want our daughter to be OK--but, this issue is hard for the men to deal with. The children at school do not live in your house. They do not wake up in the middle of the night with a kitchen knife in your childs face...Families are not forced to establish unbelievable rules to protect innocent members form the children at school. If your bio daughter destroyed your sons toys you would know what to do about it--if an adoptive placement does you might end up with a black eye yourself. I have had to have back surgery over the attack from a five year old......I have had to stay awake all night to protect her baby brother....I have had to keep my eye on a five and six year old every single moment of every single day since she came her.....We have had to go through our whole home and remove certain items--if she sees a mans underwear she gets excited! We have had to place locks on all of our kitchen cabinets in order to keep her from getting up at night and eating everything in the house....we have had to give all of our pets to safe homes....including the fish in the fish tank. Our daughter is beautiful....she needs so much love! I just do not know how on earth I could have possible been able to deal with some of these issues had we had bio children anywhere near her age? It has taken me constant reminders to my grown children to remember she is a baby who was badly hurt---sometimes even my grown children resent the fact that the new adopted children require so much....it was HARD to tell my son we would not be able to attend his college band show because our daughter had a tantrum that started at 8 in the morning and never ended! I know you have been educated on the things you might face....I too was educated on these things and I believed that I was the kind of parent who had proven I could do a good job even with the dramatic things that happened to my own children during their lives--but, reality is very different. My bios were raised until they were 10 & 11 in a home with domestic violence...I thought that if I could bring them through this I could do magic with any child--my son at 9 nearly lost his left leg and had it reattached--became addicted to morphine and had a long road to recover--I thought if I could deal with that I could deal with anything.... I can deal with anything--but, I am thankful I do not have younger bios who have to deal with the every day and night issues that an emotionally upset, abused and hurt little girl has brought into our home..... that is the only point I want to make...I am sorry if I sounded harsh....I remember feeling that some of the things said during my training or in the process of our adoption were harsh and belittled my ability-- The agency is simply going to spend some time with you in order to discover your motivations for this age range and weather or not you have a clear understanding of what this could mean..... What i have told you here was not to put you down but, to give you insight as to what the agency is thinking too and the kinds of questions you will be asked to answer---If the agency feel that your family is understanding the whole situation and able to deal with a match that may come up then I am sure you will be fine--if the agency feels you are not fully aware of the complete dynamics that you may be wanting then I am sure they will let you know their feelings.... One other word of advice I would like you to remember when you do have this meeting is that the caseworkers will not agree with any comparison you make to raising your bio children and adopting an older child....I cannot tell you how many times during my process that I was told--these children are NOT like your bio children....it really ticked me off how often any story I had to share about my mothering experience was squashed into the ground and stompt on ... So during your meeting the idea that your children may have problems and may be around other kids with problems may or may not be something the caseworkers would want to hear.... For your meeting you need to be ready for the attitude you see coming from me....even if the agency does not come right out and say what I am saying they have a lot of experience and their job is to identify a good home for the children they need to place not a good child for the home that want a child to be placed....

Thank you for clarifying. I understand where you are coming from. I think I'm in defensive mode and you identified it very well with your example of how you felt when they were questioning your ability. I think that's where I'm at. I might be a dreamer right now, but I guess that's all part of the process. I just want a chance without being squashed before I've even tried. What I am most upset about is the fact that none of this was brought up or discussed anywhere along the line until now. And I don't know how to answer the caseworker anymore. They don't want "bleeding hearts" but I really do care so much for the older kids. I just don't want "another kid" I want to be the difference in someone's life. But that's the wrong answer to their questions of our intentions too. Maybe I should just relax and get away from it for a while? I'm sorry if I had a offensive knee-jerk reaction; tensions are high right now. Thank you for sharing your experiences. :)

Far better to have a knee jerk reaction here then with the caseworkers! This is a good place to work out some of the over reactive feelings that we do get during this whole long ordeal! I was defensive TOO! Trust me--and I didn't like or respect a lot of the stuff we went through. Remember that there are a lot of people the caseworkers see with who do come to this point with 'bleeding hearts' Not all adoptive parents are as open minded and willing to deal with things like those of us spending time on these forums..... Try to view the meeting as a positive thing for your situation....if they did not have a reason to think you might be able to pull your request off--they would tell you or they wouldn't even bother to give you a meeting in the first place.... Please keep knee-jerking here--it is safe--you cannot hurt me--and it will not harm your case!

Actually that might not be the wrong answer! Sometime the answer is the truth and what you really do feel...... The caseworkes who are placing the older children do not really want families that just 'want another child'. They want families who are willing to be there for the child that is placed. Wanting to make a difference in an older childs life is what they need to hear. The only negative thing I can see from this answer would be if the caseworkers ask you why you want to help these older children right now?........ The caseworkers have such a difficult job....they have to work very hard to weed out the wrong families---thats why the training classes are so flled with doom, thats why sometimes they do not pin point your every request in advance.....why spend the time dealing with some of the details befor the family has gone past the hoops and ordeals that you have already gone past? Many more families drop out before they get to this point.....if the caseworkers spent a lot of time and attention in advance for families who drop out it would take even longer to get the children placed..... Many times they don't even look at what your requests are until the time for matching comes..... Some families start the process thinking there is no way they can deal with one issue or another--only to learn they can deal with something different.....the whole precess can cause many families to consider different things so a lot of the questions don't get asked until the family has gotten to the point of looking for a match......our original application was very different then what we ended up requesting because of our journey.... We are one of the few families who didn't even ask for a baby! We thought we were too old and that we would not be considered--but when the match happened I had to decide if I really wanted to change diapers? It was surprising to us to have a one year old placed....we asked for siblings between 3 and 8! Just go in there honest and you will actually be matched better! Even though our daughter has issues we didn't expect we still feel the match was well done.....go figure that one out!

Can I throw in one more thing (and like Anna, I'm not being critical or defensive, just realistic) - You said Realize that a 12 -14 year old child who has lived its life in abuse and neglect, then in foster care for numerous years WILL NOT relate to your biological daughter. Neither will your daughter be able to relate to them. Their lives are just too different. I, like Anna, ended up adopting a child very different than we began looking for. By becoming educated, we learned what we really could and could not handle. Just keep educating yourself and you will come to the right decision for your family.

I would NEVER advocate for adopting a 12 yr old girl when you have boys in your home that are your sons' ages. We had a 12 yr old girl that we were planning on adopting. I asked ALL the right questions and later found out that not only was I given the wrong answers, but it was in her file that she HAD been sexually abused. It was documented and the worker lied to me, b/c had she told me the truth, we would have said no. They were desperate to get this girl adopted and no one wanted her. We had two sons at home at the time who were in their late teens. We had no concerns at all with them, b/c they went through the fc course with us and knew the type of fc we might get. They would never have tried to take advantage of the girl. She was with us a year. We tried everything not to disrupt her placement with us. The month before we had her removed, our neighbor came over to our house frantic. He had caught his 9 yr old son and our dd in the back yard having intercourse. He brought our dd home and all she did was smile. She said that she liked virgins when we asked her how she could do that to such a young boy. I used to listen in on her phone conversations. I KNEW she was lying to us, but I could never catch her. Well, the night before she was removed, I DID catch her. She was telling a friend of hers how she was going to sneak downstairs and have sex with my 17 yr old son. She told her friend how she had been planning this surprise. I couldn't believe my ears. I was devastated. I talked to "P" about it and she said she was just joking. I didn't believe her. The sw came and got her the next day when I called. I could no longer keep everyone in my home safe. If she had gone through with her plan that night, my son could have been arrested for rape. Could you imagine how that would have ruined his life? When I was going through her room to pack her stuff, I found her diary. I read it and couldn't believe all the lies she had told me. I couldn't believe all the sneaking she had done, especially in the middle of the night. Boys had been in my home and she had snuck out of our home. I confimed this by calling one of her friend's mothers. She admitted that she had caught "P" at her house one night and "P" begged her not to call me. She promised she'd never do it again. Of course she did. I found pills in her room, pot in her coat pocket, cigarrettes in her drawers. Who would have thought that a little girl who was only 12 yrs old would be like that. Certainly not me. She had been in counseling while she was here and the counselor told me everything was going well. "P" had never confessed any of this to her counselor. She told her she loved it with us and everything was good at home. In her diary she wrote that she hated all of us and would use us for all we had. She said the day she turned 18 she would drop out of high school and go live on the streets so she could do all the drugs and sex she could. I NEVER SUSPECTED THIS! I'm telling you this, b/c NO ONE can guarentee that something that happened to us won't happen to you. It's ok to want to make a difference in someone's life. But don't risk your own children to fulfill that need. Wait until they're grown! Even after I did, our kids were still affected. I know there are people who will say that WE did something wrong or that WE didn't have our eyes opened. Believe me, "P" fooled a LOT of people. After she left the stories started coming out. Two boys at church youth had had sex with her (other 6th graders). She had spread lies about our family. We really had to rebuild our lives. We now have two teens that we're adopting. Our birth kids are grown and in college. I am now SAFELY able to make a difference in kids' lives who would have otherwise aged out of fc. They are with a permanent family, but the difference this time is that my family is intact. Don't risk your family. Please.

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