Differences in opinions should not cause lock-outs

Im sorry, but you just cant compare a forum based on the emotionally charged topic of adoption to one based on business issues. Its apples and oranges, IҒm sorry. You also said: Id be happy to try the redirect approach, AGAIN. As for being quick to ban, as I have said, and Kiwi has said a number of times, there is just too much that goes on behind the scenes҅we are far from being quick to banӔ

Ok, cool. Obviously 100 small infractions would be bad......wouldn't the warnings have kicked in by then? Using a "tone" is a hard thing to determine. Even phrases and words can be misconstrued. If I say "great" that is ok. But if I am being sarcastic, it is a different story. One can't assume they "know" exactly what I meant in that case. But a racial slur is clear cut, isn't it? I don't think that should be tolerated. If it is used in the context of explaining something...."that bo-bo called me a "whatever" That is different than, "you are just a whatever" right? So perhaps the seniority needs to come into play more when interpreting the things that aren't as clear cut. If you have a new poster, with a very narrow interest of adoption, over on a particular board....and this person ONLY participates within that arena...and a longtime HELPFUL member, who transverses the triad boundaries offers an opinion and is slammed and told their opinion is not welcome, I KNOW you can understand how that hurts us! We have been told over and over that the forums are guidelines, not boundaries. Anyways, there is my suggestion. Debi Oh...I DO understand that this is bugging you Brandy. I would like to suggest that a good long hard look be taken at the sheer number of longtime consistant posters that have either left, been banned, or are expressing their dis-satisfaction. I really believe it says something.

Deb, Again, I am still trying to understand and learnhonestlyŅbut I believe most people who are banned get some sort of warning before its doneif they donŒt, well work on doing so. I donҒt personally send the warningsI'm not required to. Also, not to sound redundant, but wouldnŒt agreeing to the Terms of Service be the only warning you need, after all, it does say: Monitors will be regularly checking these Community Websites for inappropriate messages and material. Those containing such will be deleted without warning or explanation, and users posting such messages may be banned without warning from all Community Websites. Adoption Media reserves the right to delete any message, thread or user without warning or explanation. Every member should be following the guidelines posted in the Terms of Servicea moderator shouldnŒt even have to ban or warn, because the rules shouldnt be broken. Again, I am trying to understand where everyone is coming from҅I truly am

In all honesty, what it says to me is they didnt want to follow the rules. The rules have been here from the beginning, but have only truly been fully enforced for several months. This has caused some members to leave, and thatҒs unfortunatebut the rules are the rulesŅeveryone has to follow them, regardless of their length of time on the forum. Edit: Sorry, left out a whole paragraph Regarding current members dissatisfactionthatŒs why I am asking these questionsI want to know what I can do to make enforcing the rules a more pleasant experience.

That brings me back to the unfairness of the way these broken rules are discovered! I believe I am "flogging a dead horse" as my hubby would say. But I think one of the absolute main problems is that, NOT everyone who breaks the rules is scolded, or anything else. So the more visible members are not treated the same. And the only reason they are more visible members is because they post often. (in most cases) Again, I have NOT seen any serious infractions of the TOS in the most recent bannings. Absolutely NOTHING I don't see all over the boards. So the only common denominator I see is visibility. I think it is important to remember that "behind the scenes" works both ways. Anyways, I guess those who have left have been deemed of no value. I adamantly disagree and mourn their loss on these boards. Debi

Brandy or Kiwi, Does a member get a private warning that they may be taking things to far? Do you warn them of a possible banning or are they just banned?:confused: As you can see this really worries me. I don't go around attacking anyone, but I do stand firm in something I believe in. I just don't want to get banned for having a voice about something, but like I said I would not personally attack someone woth different beliefs I would just share mine. I think it has been some of the heated topics have helped me the most, but only when they are left open for us to work through it. I think when they are locked mid-topic it only leaves the problem there to fester and grow, not to cool down. Then someone will just start another thread and it will be even more heated. I don't know. I know I am rambling here, but things have really changed the past few months....:confused:

AMEN "I think it has been some of the heated topics have helped me the most, but only when they are left open for us to work through it. I think when they are locked mid-topic it only leaves the problem there to fester and grow, not to cool down. Then someone will just start another thread and it will be even more heated." Debi

Again, I have NOT seen any serious infractions of the TOS in the most recent bannings.Ӕ If you havent seen them, then that means the moderators are doing their jobs҅thats all I can say to that҅Im sorry. IҒm not even sure which bannings you are talking aboutthere were 10-15 bannings this weekendŅwhich is average for a 2 day period. In regards to people with more posts being moderated moreI think thatŒs a pretty fair assumption, because they post more, they typically have more to read or moderate. I guess thats what you mean by saying they get moderated more. If you mean they are watched more carefully, then I have to agree there too. People who have posts moderated are watched a little more cautiously because of their history of violating the Terms Of Service҅to me that seems logical. If I misunderstood, please let me know

The idea behind locking the thread is to allow it a fresh start with out all the verbal jabs. If it gets heated, it too will be locked. If you read back over the thread, you will see each person comment differently on this. Some want them locked for further discussion on another thread, others want them deleted all togetherand IŒve even see some people say we shouldnt ever lock or delete a thread, I can tell you now, that will never happen҅Im sorry. Regarding a warning҅I think most times someone receives a warning before they are bannednot right beforeŅit could be months beforeit normally comes in the form of an admin email and states something along the lines of, œYoure skating on thin ice so watch yourself pleaseҔ. This isnt the standard tho. Someone can violate the Terms of Service, and not be notified of the reason until later, because it happens on a weekend or holiday, and I donҒt have access to the Admin email account to send out such an email. Again, I will say that the Terms of Service is always everyones first warning. You agreed to it when you joined, and it states clearly that violations will result in a ban. So always consider the ToS when posting, and there really shouldnҒt be a problem. A person will NEVER be banned for expressing how they feelthe problem generally occurs in the manner in which they post that opinion.

I am not sure how I would define a senior member. I think it would be someone who is here on a regular basis and someone who has a post history that can be looked at. Maybe a time period as well. I have a lot of posts but thruthfully I have only been a member for 5 months---maybe I should need to be a member a min of 6-months with a certain number of posts to be considered a senior member. The agreement I 'clicked' on when I signed up made it clear that I could be banned without notice. At the time I signed up I didn't think that was a big deal. I would actually, hope that if I were banned I would at least understand why so that in the future I could aviod crossing lines in other forums. So far my observation of the people being banned has been kind of clear why? I mean when things get out of hand on a thread...and posts are deleted or changed and that should be a clue. To come back on the thread and scream about it and turn the thread into another 'unfair moderators' thread right in the middle of a conversation is very much asking for trouble. How many times have I told my 6-year old that she is in 'time out' for doing something--only to have her make an effort to argue? And how many times has her arguments EVER gotten her out of time out or what she wanted? NOT very often if ever. I think that those of us who find ourselves on a thread with a heated debate and notice that a post has been deleted have a choice to make right at that moment....We can ask directly and privately a moderator or admin to let know what it was about the post that caused a problem--so that we can correct ourselves in the future....OR WE CAN START A TANTRUM ON THE THREAD. Which from my observation is the greatest insurance for banning of all. Most of us have learned along the way that when dealing with anyone who has any kind of control at all over anything that we are part of--conflicts are best handled out of the view of the others who are involved. It is just like having an argument about discipline of the children--with your spouse. If we do not wish to have the children divide us then we need to keep our arugments out of thier ear shot. And figure out what our united front is. Members who want to argue with moderators or admin about certain situations should do so but, not on a thread about which diapers are better. I think that a senior member would feel that it is far more productive to address concerns and problems to the people who can resolve them and not to the general public. Once a person is a senior member they should actually know who to talk to about problems and issues. Anyway--thats all I have to say--I am getting tired of this back and fourth and will be continuing to find help for myself and offer any advice I have to others.....

Wonderful post Anna, Thank you.

Ok, I just want to make sure everyone knows I'm reading too... all 12 pages and I want to address as many concerns as possible. Spaypets- I think you are right that often (but most definitely not always) people do feel that they are being flamed because they are being told they are wrong. I have indeed read reported posts and though "what's the problem here?" and not removed a post. Dlouis- You bring up a very deep point when you mention ads and demographics... one that I'm going to use to hopefully show people that there is no "agenda" in forums other than to provide a community space. There are not very many ads for searchers yet the search and reunion boards are probably the most popular. I have no of why the international boards are so popular, but I know its a lot easier to create a forum specifically for the needs of international adoptive parents and their needs (main category, adopting- sub category, adopting from a specific country) as opposed to where the needs of others in different points of adoption are more emotional and the forum name/category/subject, is just harder to put into words exactly. Please let me know if there is any topic we are missing and I'll do what I can to get it added! A while ago, I'm certain that if asked, members on one international board would have though that moderators never left that forum and delighted only in moderating those threads. Also mentioned a couple times-- Though we do try to stick to the ToS in general (I think most of it is just plain common sense so I don't have it printed and framed or anyting like that) but there are occasions where something is in that grey area and it slides. There is not entirely a "by the book" way of moderating. If you're new and you have only posted flames, odds are you'll keep doing it, so no more posting for you, if you are a longstanding member and you have a bad day, its another story--- we'll probably count on you taking that hot bath and coming back tomorrow and know we'll see your usual posts as soon as things are sorted out for you. I see that most everyone is concerned about getting banned for posting something inappropriate. I know ingrade school, I'd have my name on the board all the time for speaking my mind, but I did know where the line was that would get me kicked out of school or sent to detention. If you have any doubt that your style or voice conveyed may be inflamitory or ban worthy, PM a longstanding member and ask them to take a look at your post. Or Email admin and ask our opinion ;) It's like a big city... as the population grows, the occurences of everything increase. It may be that there are just more radical viewed members who come to the forums and express their views in an edgy way and to cross "the line" and that is why it seems to be more commonplace. I am open to suggestions on anything. It is possible to change settings so both time and # of posts are taken into account when a title is set. You can have a "custom" title as well such as Anna's (who has made the most wonderful posts on this thread, btw). Input is welcome, please continue to keep it positive!

I'm curious where the "behind the scenes" issues take place with members as I want to make sure I don't go there. I participate on the public forum and personal messages ~ never been in a chat. Several members that have been banned said those were the only areas they participated in and have no clue how they were involved in any "behind the scenes" dealings. debsdone: Your post, to which this dismissive response was given, included those that "are expressing their dis-satisfaction" which would be almost everyone on this thread. Not feeling members are "of value" is probably at the root of many of the feelings of frustration. While on the weekends there was sometimes a shortage of moderators, the rules have been enforced since I joined the forum in October of 2002. The Terms of Service were the same. The former administrator, Sabra, was also accessible by email. Enforcement was not done in such a heavy handed manner but the rules were enforced. Moderators did not post on threads that they were moderating so when an enforcement occurred, it was not possible for members to view it as a personal issue. Enforcement was done in a professional business like manner which resulted in mutual respect. If this is supposed to be system generated, you may want to update the system. HappyMomAnna: I think you may have hit on what the real problem actually is. The Administrator, Moderator and yourself view this as a Parent/Child relationship. Most Members that I have communicated with view it more as a Manager/Employee relationship. Previous Administration and Moderators treated Members in a manner similar to a good manager ~ as a respected employee. How Members are viewed and treated with the change in management style, is, IMO, the reason so many Members that other Members valued, have left and why, as twelve pages have demonstrated, so many are frustrated. Members value the forum and each other and previously felt valued in return.

how about anther section called the 'vent board'....this way new members really wouldnt be interested in that...and those of us who might have a beef, can go there. there are TOS and i had to reread them....so that answered all my questions...thanks brandy for directing me there. but i cant promise that i might lose it now and then, but then i guess i will have to deal with consequence for my actions dadfor2

Dlouis- as was mentioned previously- people do move on, they have come to the boards, they had their needs fulfilled and they have done other things. You can't honestly expect the same numbers of banned members and number of moderators to stay the same when the population of the boards goes from 10,000 to over 60,000. Since there has been a call for admin to post openly if someone is crossing a line, I would like to say that Dlouis, you have been highly dissrespectful. What do you expect that manager to do who is constantly complained to/about for enforcing rules? If I complained to a boss that I thought they were unfair whilst standing in the middle of my workplace, I'd probably get in trouble too. There has been no trickery or favoritism in who has been edited other than maybe giving the likes of yourself another chance to flame administration. That was the last straw for me. This thread is being locked as a consensus of ALL the moderators.... even those not participating. In the future, attacks on moderators and administration will be removed immediately and appropriate action will be taken. This horse is dead.