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Finally got word from attorney today about yesterday's hearing. It's not great, but it's not horrible, either. It should sound very familiar to YDH!!!
"Hello Rebecca. I have GOOD news and some not so good news. It so happens that the day before yesterday (Monday) I responded to the judge and to the DNA to talk about your case. The court told me that everything was ready for the "audencia" (abandonment hearing?). However, when I reported in (to the office) in the afternoon after the morning "audencia," they told me that the Resolution could not be given since the mother of the children did not respond (show up to court?). Because of this they are going to note it and if she does not present herself (show up to court or the judge's office?), then they will find her in contempt of court.
It's important to speak to the judge so that she knows that we cannot delay too much. Let me speak with the judge and I will explain your deadline (INS paperwork) to her.
On the other hand, that same day I spoke with Carmen Donna (DNA director) and she told me that days before she had seen the children and she told them that soon you were going to come to meet them and take them to their new house, and the children are happy! They (DNA?) had asked me not to show your photo to the children until after the "audencia" and I was ready to carry it to them, but now I depend on what the judge tells me. As I said previously, once I can speak with her (judge) in these next few days, I will give you a report, OK? God give you patience! A strong hug from me!"
* * *
I'm not sure if the judge has to hold another hearing to give the mother an opportunity to show up ("respond"), or if she just decides how much time she'll wait for the mother to come to the court to ask about the hearing. We're waiting on a response from our attorney to explain how this works and how long it will take. (I don't think she'll have that answer until she can get a meeting with the judge, though.)
So we're "close," but this really is agonizing. Sound familiar, Y?
Rebecca
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Rebecca!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know it wasn't the outcome you were looking for but THANK GOD your case is definitely moving!!!!!!!! I am jumping up and down with joy for you. Stuff is starting to move!!!!!
On another group I'm on, a similar thing happened in a domestic case I'm following (the mom disappeared before signing papers). The adoptive parents are definitely getting the child, it just means extra paperwork to cinch everything up airtight. Goodness knows you can't compare the two, really, but perhaps you'll finally get lucky and it will just be a matter of papers and not so much a matter of more time.
I am definitely praying for you, girlfriend.
Hugs!!!
Robin
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Thanks, Robin! After I cussed a bit under my breath (after reading the message today), I realized that this is exactly what happens with domestic cases, too. Every parent has the legal right to challenge an adoption, even if they've been terrible and abusive to their kids. So it's just a matter of me being patient with the process.
(That's kind of funny, because that's what my personality profile (Myers Briggs) said about my personality! I'm a "procedural" thinker---like things done in order and in a timely fashion. I don't care about the details or the "big picture," just following a scheduled agenda.) ;)
Rebecca
On Meyers Briggs I've turned out to be an extremely rare INFP. Figures...I just gotta be different from 99% of the population. ;)
This no-show thing has to be more common than bio-parents actually showing up, I would think. Especially when the children are older and have been in the system so long.
Hope you hear something soon!
Robin
You sound really close. This story sounds much better - if the mother doesn't show- which sounds very likely-- you are in and those children have a chance!! As for me, our mom is not consenting. I still get-- "we are close" from our lawyer, but no real evidence of anything. I did find the dates of of some orientation to the "foster home to adopt" program here, I may go, I just don't know. The dates are on my calendar- but not commiting yet. Hang in there with this, I would. Sounds like they just want to make REAL sure this won't go bad. yh
Heard from our attorney again today and she clarified that since the birthmother did not show up in court Tuesday and her whereabouts are unknown, the judge MUST name a public defender to represent her "in absentia."
So our attorney is going to try to get a quick appointment with the judge tomorrow to get the second abandonment hearing scheduled ASAP, and she thinks we MIGHT still be able to travel for the guardianship hearing by mid-May. (I'm not holding my breath, though.) ;) If the attorney can't speak directly with the judge tomorrow, she'll talk to the judge's secretary.
She said if she can't accomplish this tomorrow (if neither will see her), then she'll have to wait until Tuesday, since Sunday is the presidential election and the court offices are closed on Monday.
Rebecca
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Rebecca,
The news that you received was not as bad as you think. The birth mother in our case did not show up for our abandonment hearing either. Our agency had to track her down in the interior and bring her to the judge's office to sign the paperwork. They did proceed with the documents, but nothing could be considered final until she signed. All this did was delay the process which I know you cannot afford any additional delays, but at least the case is moving forward. Your attorney appears to have a good relationship with the Judge (at least they can get in to talk to him). If that is the case, then maybe they can work some magic. You are in our thoughts and prayers that this process moves quickly.
Thanks for the encouragement, everyone!
Lauri, it sounds like this may be the typical procedure for abandonment (termination of parental rights). Although I would think that ours would run a little differently since the children were removed from the birthmother's home due to physical/emotional abuse. I wouldn't think she'd have to agree to TPR, but who knows?
We haven't heard from our attorney since Thursday, so hopefully she'll have a chance to speak with the judge and get the TPR hearing rescheduled ASAP! :)
By the way, Lauri, how long did it take for the officials to find your baby's birthmother and get her to the judge's office to sign?
Thanks,
Rebecca
The TPR hearing was March 8th and the birth mother went to the judges office April 6th to sign the papers. In her situation, she left the child with the orphanage at birth. My understanding was that she just needed to sign an acknowledgement that her parental rights were terminated and that the termination occurred on March 8th during the initial hearing.
Do you know if there is a grace (not right word) period after the TPR where the birth parents can change their mind or that the adoption cannot be final until them? (30 days, 60 days, etc.)
It is amazing how much you have to understand about the process. When we started, I did not think I would have to know so much about the legal system in Panama to get through an adoption. I still do not understand the entire process or the legal requirements/rules: child must be 6 months old before adoptions can be final?, TPR must be signed by birth parents?, Referral should not occur until after TPR?, adoptive parents must be in court for final hearing?, Birth parents must be present for TPR?, the list of questions goes on and on. As always, it appears that these are guidelines that can be enforced or not enforced depending upon the person you are dealing with. (Sorry just a little frustration at not having a concrete - repeatable process to follow - techie talk) It does appear that the guidelines are followed for most of the adoptions with slight variations.
I pray everyday to bring my son without having to learn anything more about the process. (no more gotchas)
Congratulations and Hope you travel soon!
Lauri
Adopting Infant Son
Agency: CAI
Dossier Submitted July 2003
Referral August 2003
TPR March 8th, 2004
Final Court Date June 9th, 2004
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Well, I suppose this is why it's so important that American adoption agencies actually have an office in Panama (or a Panamanian "employee"/attorney with whom they stay in regular contact) to stay up on all of the various laws, and that they work with knowledgable, ethical attornies, huh? ;)
Boy, I sure don't want to have to learn any new rules, either. It will be nice when we are finally home with our little ones and the laws, rules, time tables, etc. are a distant memory!!!
:)
Rebecca
Oh My Gosh, I can't believe they had to have the parent come and sign something saying the rights were terminated. That is horrible. I'm glad we didn't have that. The bmom, left the child in the hospital. We did go through all of the procedures for finding her, but she actually used a fake name, fake cedula, and address. She was no where to be found.
I don't know why the agency didn't tell you that the bmom would need their own attorney, because we knew this from the beginning and at the abandonment hearing, the court had her an attorney. (Of course, her attorney didn't show up, so the court sent out a "bench warrant" for the attorney and within 2-hours, the attorney appeared.) We had an attorney even for our son, but of course, we paid for it.
On a side note, with the election of Martin Torrijos, the adoption process should go much smoother. We met a very good friend of his, (that had he been elected, last presidenetial election, this friend would have been one of the President's cabinet.) that we became good friends, ended up walking us through the adoption process. He was appalled by what people went through during this process, especially when proven the children could be out of orphanages and into loving homes. He said he would make it a mission of his, to straighten out a lot of that red tape.
I have found, that in Panama, there are never 2-cases alike. Each one is treated quite differently. Keep up the faith. Hopefully it'll all work out quickly for you and the children.
K.
K:
I was surprised, too, that our attorney didn't know that the birthmother would have to be in court for the abandonment ("disqualification" or "inhabilitacion") hearing, or in her absense, an attorney would have to represent her! If she had known, she could have made sure an attorney was named BEFORE the hearing so as not to cause a second hearing.
Or maybe the attorney DID know, but this is just the inefficient way things must be done under the current setup. Our attorney wrote last night to tell me that the new president WILL make adoptions more efficient to get children out of orphanages and into loving homes. Yippee!!! Unfortunately, he won't take office until September. Hopefully WE'LL be done by then, but for those waiting on referrals, this should be helpful for you. :)
Anyway, our attorney was not able to get an appointment with the judge, but she's meeting with the court secretary today to see if she can get the second TPR hearing scheduled. Please keep your fingers crossed!
Rebecca
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