constraints/time frames/etc

All of us would like to be able to answer the questions below on the typical wait time for referral or the typical timeframe from referral to travel. Unfortunately, there is not a typical timeframe with Panama. We have all had different experiences and different timeframes. We do know that the process is a long one. We all hope the new government will improve the process, and they have said that they would. Most of us are working with agencies and the agencies only began adoptions in Panama last year. Rebecca is working with an attorney directly. You can read alot of the information in many of the posts that will answer your questions. As for my particular situation, our dossier was submitted in July 2003 to Panama DNA. We received our referral about 6 weeks later (August 2003). We are still waiting to travel to get our child. We did go to Panama in March 2003 hoping that we could complete the adoption then. But due to circumstances, we were unable to bring our son home. I have posted the entire journey under Panama Journey. Whatever country you decide upon - Good Luck! Lauri

Dear Lisa, I agree with Lauri---please set aside some time to read through all of the posts on the board that deal with time frames and various agency experiences (they were posted when that was still allowed). This will show you that there is no "typical" timeframe for anything in Panama! Some families received child referrals right away, but not much has happened since, while others have gone nearly a year without even receiving a referral. If you are looking to begin your adoption process (choosing an agency, assembling your dossier, traveling and bringing your child home) within the next few months, Panama would not be the country for you. However, if you can wait until the new President is in place and Panama has had a few months to get things in order and clean up the adoption process, then perhaps Panama WOULD be a good choice for you. But that won't happen until Oct/Nov/Dec...maybe even into the start of 2005. Good luck, whatever you decide! Rebecca P.S. I chose Panama due to lower cost and proximity to U.S. so that we could return with our children some day for a visit---plus, I can speak/read Spanish pretty well. Our 2nd choice would have been Colombia, also due to cost, or Mexico, IF Americans could adopt at that time (2002). Back then it was very rare for a U.S. family to get permission from DCF (in Mexico) to be able to adopt (strained US/Mexico relations?)...And we also considered Ukraine with the help of a woman who adopted there before (she has helped 600+ families adopt from there! PM me if you want her Web site address.)

We wanted to adopt from Central/South America and it was really a process of elimination. We were going to go with Guatemala but then the Hague mess kicked in, we are too old for Colombia, Ecuador was halted, we could only find 1 agency doing Costa Rica (that agency has subsequently had their adoption license pulled by the state), and in other countires the children were older. So when we stumbled across Panama it seemed like a great fit for us. When we submitted our dossier our agency had told us 2 to 9 months for a referral and 3 to 4 months until travel after the referral. The timeframes seem to be the big mystery! We waited a relatively short time for a referral, however the wait to travel is excruciating! Not sure on the age of the children given the few number of referrals that we know about. Best of luck with your decision! Julie

Thanks for your responses. Here is a related question - how many have brought children home and how long was it from submission of dosier to the time the child came home? I am starting to realize that Panama's program seems to be fairly new - is this a fair statement? I am assuming people have brought children home - is that true? I am not in a big hurry - I don't have a set time frame in mind. But I don't want 2 - 3 years to go by either. Thanks for your help. Lisa

There have been a number of independent (non-agency) adoptions with Panama for some time. Some of the ones posting on the site now were in Panama with the military and completed their adoptions while they were in Panama. The agency that we are working with began working in Panama the end of 2002. They have successfully completed one adoption. That one was fairly quick (dossier to referral to final adoption - 9-10 months). We are the second family, and we are still waiting for the final court date. We expected the process to be 2-3 months for referral and 3-6 months for travel. Our referral was quick, but the wait to finalized everything has been hard. It will be one year in June since we submitted our dossier. If you read the signature on many of our posting, you will get an idea of how long we have all been waiting. Lauri Dossier submitted June 2003 Referral August 2003 First trip March 2004 Final trip ??????

Just to give you a sense of how LONG the court process (abandonment) takes: The first TPR (termination of parental rights) was scheduled for April 27, but the birthmother didn't show up in court (probably didn't even know about the hearing), so the judge couldn't rule. (The children were removed from her home due to abuse, but even when this is the case, apparently the birthparents have the right to challenge TPR, just like in the U.S.). So since that time, our attorney has been in the judge's office several times each week trying to get things moving. The court finally set a date for when the aunt of the children is supposed to come to court this Friday and declare the birthmother's known whereabouts (a subpoena was sent to her house last week), so that an official subpoena ("cita"?) may be sent to the birthmother for a later hearing for TPR. But, if the aunt doesn't show up, then the court has to find another way to get the aunt into court to declare where the birthmother is currently living so that the court can hunt her down and tell her about this TPR hearing. This is what is so ridiculous about the adoption/judicial procedures in Panama! Our attorney is "fit to be tied" with all of this bureaucracy, and is currently working with the incoming administration (for whom she helped campaign) to specifically reduce the red tape of this particular part of the process. 2/?/04 - DNA social worker submitted his abandonment investigation of the children to the judge after 7-8 months of investigating (it's supposed to take 3 months) 3/?/2004 - judge set date for TPR hearing 4/27/04 - 1st TPR hearing held, but no ruling 5/28/04 - children's aunt is supposed to be in court to give address of bmom 6/?/04 - if aunt doesn't show, court must find another way to get her there 6-7/04 - eventually the bmom will be notified (through a newspaper ad), and the TPR hearing will be held again. Once that happens, and the children are found "abandoned," their file is sent to the DNA. That is when the new director would need to match our dossier with the children's file, and send both back to the same judge to hold a guardianship hearing. The way things are going, that won't happen until July or August! (The children have been in the orphange for 13 months now, with no visits from extended family.)

We too wanted to adopt from Latin America. We started out with Guatemala and then the Hague stuff hit. So, we chose Ecuador. In Aug of 2003 we sent our homestudy to Ecuador and was approved. Three weeks later we received our referral. Our dossier was approved in Ecuador in December and now we are waiting for the "final" meeting so that we can travel for pick up. The paperwork was a breeze (the agency handles it all) and our dossier was processed without one hitch. The hardest part is waiting for this final meeting. The cost is not bad either. Many agencies will say Ecuador is closed but it is not true. Many agencies are not accepting new clients or did not get their licenses renewed by Ecuador. Hop onto Ecuador-Adopt @ yahoo.com and you can talk with many families who have recently brought home children. There are many of waiting as well. Good luck to you! Marsha

My Agency - also started in Panama late 2002/early 2003. 2 adoptions have been completed. One on this board is Sara - hers was very quick - paperwork submited to child home was around 6 months. Second adoption was just over 1 year - start to finish. 2 more families are expected to travel to complete the process and bring their children home in June - those taking under 1 year total. Referral can happen quickly or take a long time in Panama - the question always is where is the child in parental rights termination. That determines how quick you get to bring the child home. Some children (i.e. Lauri's was very young at referral) however, it seems next to impossible that you will bring home a child much under 9 months because - TPR takes so long. We all hope with more completed adoptions and the new administration (taking over in Sept) that the process will stream line and speed up. At this point - I can fairly say - no 2 adoptions have happened in the same timeline - because Panama is Panama.

Oops! Part of the problem with communicating with my attorney via e-mail is that some things are a little vague. I asked for clarification on this process to get the aunt to court to declare where the bmom is, and the response to me was that it's the BMOM who we are hoping comes to court on Friday (5/28)! (So that puts us further along that I thought...sort of.) So let me edit my timeline: 4/27/04 - 1st TPR hearing held, but no ruling 5/28/04 - children's bmom is supposed to be in court so that TPR hearing can be held (the aunt was just given this info and was told to get the bmom to court this Friday) 6/?/04 - if bmom doesn't show, the court must find another way to get her there (then they'll run the ad in the newspaper???) I'm not sure how many times they'll try this before they give up on the bmom and just rule in favor of "abandonment/adoptability". :confused: Rebecca

You've been given great advice and info thus far on Panama.... We're one of the military families that completed our adoption while living in Panama. One other member here, and I, volunteered at the same time at one of the large orphanages in Panama. So, we both got a very personal perspective about how the system works. Our take? Nothing is consistant, nothing is speedy, and nothing surprised us! HOWEVER.... somehow, the adoptions (in the end) always managed to work out. I only saw ONE adoption that failed, and it was expected not to work out. When we were there, there were no agencies, to my knowledge, working on adoptions there..... HOWEVER.... I met several couples from Spain who were adopting through the orphanage. Whether they used agencies, or went w/a private attorney, I have no idea. But they were successful with their adoptions, for the most part. I'm partial to the idea of hiring your own attorney, and going from there, as that's the way it was done when the U.S. bases were there, and there were many adoptions. So, they're familiar with the system and what an American's immigration needs are going to be (although you will have to walk your attorney through what THEY need to do for you re: immigration/U.S. Consulate stuff - which was really no biggie, just some leg work). When you're using an agency - they take care of this for you. When you're going it alone, with an attorney - this will be your job, as your attorney's fees will not include this, although they will give you the paperwork you need from the adoption process. But they cannot be expected to process your Consulate/Visa/INS stuff (it wasn't difficult, I promise). I know that many countries require the use of an agency, however, Panama (at this time anyway), does not require it. I think agencies right now are up against the battle of getting a foothold as far as trust from the courts, etc..... which I'm sure the agencies expect, and deal with when they're working adoptions in other countries. But because they're relatively new in Panama, they're probably going to have a 2 steps forward, 1 step back experience. And I feel for them. Because the bottom line is helping a child find a loving family. They'll get the machine working eventually, though, it's just going to take some time... and it's going to require a lot of patience. And they're going to need to have a team of attorneys that KNOW their way around the system, and who know how to get your paperwork to the top of the pile (can be very aggravating). In the meantime, I've heard through my local adoption network (I'm in Okinawa, Japan presently) that there are a few families having tremendous luck in Thailand. Not sure how valid the claim is, but perhaps you can check it out. :) Best of luck....... and remember..... expect 2 years for any adoption, and that way, when it happens in 1 year, it will feel like a miracle. :) ~Kim