The strain on our marriage

Oh, Keri! You've got to get an attachment therapist! This is too much for you to handle alone. This is so, so hard, you've just got to get support from people who can help you. Please check out the Adoption Disorder Network. They have a website and you can get on their list serve for free. There is so much wisdom there. You might also look at Nancy Thomas's website to see where she's speaking next. The North American Council on Adoptable Children is having a conference in Pittsburg in August, and you might also want to look at ATTach's conference in New Mexico. I'm sorry I'm ignorant of what's going on in Canada, where I see from your profile is where you are from. It is unusual that your daughter is rejecting your husband--usually it's the mother that gets it. It's important that she is not allowed to triangulate. And I'm sure you don't want her to, and it's so hard to stop her from doing it, I'm sure! People who tell you you just need to love her are totally ignorant of attachment issues, as I'm sure you know all too well. I'm so sorry to hear your family is having these troubles. Vent any time.

My best advice is counseling, I hope you are already doing it, not just for your daughter but for your family. We raised 2 nephews, got them at 6 & 7. It was rough on everyone for a long time. I think it was pride that kept me from counseling, I was sure we could do it and didn't want anyone interferring. Things were so difficult and I would tell dh "they are normal, we are normal" it was like a mantra, I know realize I was trying to convince myself as much as convince my husband. Long story short, things got some better before they fell apart. The older nephew is diagonsed w/ RAD. They are no longer with us and I can't even begin to tell you the difference in my life, I didn't realize how much of my sheer will went into day to day life keeping the family afloat. Counseling from day one would have made a big difference. I hope the best for you. J

Thank you both so much. Noone in real life is helpful, and I'm so glad I found this board. My Dad on the weekend was saying, "Well she's fine with us, maybe we should take her for a while." Are you frickin' kidding me? She knows how to be charming with strangers, which is all my family is to her so far. And sending her to someone else would set her back another 2 years in overcoming her disorder. She sees anyone as a potential caregiver so will snuggle and love them as a survival instinct. If people like you they will feed you, basically. But she shows her worst behaviour to us because it's like she's expecting us to abandon her. So I get the feeling that people think we are either making it up that she's difficult to parent, or that we just aren't good enough for the job and shouldn't have taken it on. Which I agree with most of the time, but I don't think she'd survive another move. And I'm losing it. I'll check out that Adoption Disorder Network. Thanks for the tip. Kerri

The attachment disorder website is [url]www.radzebra.org[/url] and is full of moms who know exactly how you're feeling. These children are great at triangulating adults and making it look like the parents are crazy. (of course some of us are crazy but were we crazy before or after these kiddos moved in?) My mother thought I was the meanest mom in the world when I first began parenting these kids. It took a long time but she now sees that I did exactly what my kids needed and they're better for it. You do need to find a good attachment therapist to help support you and help you reach your child's heart that she's guarding so closely. As for your husband, make sure your daughter sees how important he is to you. Don't smooth things over. If she's not nice to him, be sure you go to comfort him, not her. She needs to know clearly that mom and dad are a team. And even though your husband likely knows this, be sure to tell him often that he's a good dad and your daughters behavior toward him is her defense/survival background and isn't about him. These kids are hard to parent and parents get shunned more often then support. But your daughters young and has much potential to heal.

I joined the yahoogroup for the Attachment Disorder Network. A peer support group is probably exactly what I need. Why did it take me so long to seek this out? I guess I needed to be in the depths of despair to be motivated to learn more. I have been in denial that all we need is time to heal everything. I wonder how I could find an attachment therapist? Is there a website or referral service or anything? Kerri

[url]www.radzebra.org[/url] [url]www.attachment.org[/url] and [url]www.attach.org[/url] all list attachment therapists by state.

Kerri - I am also in BC. The AFABC (in Burnaby) could also refer you to attachment therapists. There is also an attachment therapy center in Fort Saint John. They are few and far between in our neck of the woods, but worth checking out. Please feel free to pm me should you have any further questions! Jen

I did an internet search, and found an attachment therapist listed on an attachment disorder site that was recommended on Greg Keck's website. Here's the link: [url]http://www.attachmentdisorder.net/finding_help.htm[/url] If you go to the link and scroll down, you'll see a link for Canada, there's someone listed whose address is in BC. Obviously, it might be on the other side of BC, but it's a place to start. You can email the therapist or the person who maintains the website to get more tips on attachment therapists. After emailing Jen, of course. Nothing like getting a parent's perspective. I sincerely hope you get the help you need. God bless you and your husband for hanging in there with NO help. It is terrible to contemplate how many thousands up thousands of families worldwide are struggling with these same issues and also have no support. Disgraceful! Good for you for reaching out! Keep us posted. We're here for you and we know, from personal experience, how very difficult it is. Peace!

You must not allow her to triangulate the two of you. And its tough because these children are so good at it. We tell our daughter that mom and dad are the same. Therefore if she is mean to dad, then she is also being mean to mom and vice versa. If she kisses mom, then she is also kissing dad and he thanks her for the kiss. She also has to spend extra time with the parent she is being mean to. We tell her she needs time to practice being nice. You will be viewed by others as a mean mom. Thats part of parenting a RAD child. They charm other people like crazy. Other people think my daughter is just the cutest, sweetest, most loving thing in the world. They don't see it and you really can't convince them. You just have to be confident in your parenting and do what is best for your child. Its hard. You need to find an attachment therapist. I don't think we could have made it this far without our therapist. Sometimes therapy was more for us than for our daughter. Be sure the therapist is totally familiar with RAD, otherwise the child will charm them and make you look like the problem. Do not let that happen. Keep posting here. There are people who understand. Parenting a child with RAD is very isolating and this forum has helped me tremendously. Good luck to you.

Thanks so much guys. It's making sense to me. We need to be a team in her mind. No more optional Dad. She's not going to improve as long as she favours me and hates him. and he's not going to attach to her as long as she ignores him. i'm going to praise him more and let her see that our relationship is strong. kerri

Kerri-Jean, You've gotten a lot of good advice here. I mainly wanted to say that I admire you for being so honest about your feelings. This is absolutley the place to do it! I have vented on this board many, many times. We also got our daughter at (almost) four. Although our attachment is going relatively well, I agree that outsiders are (for the most part) clueless behave in ways that are actually harmful (encouraging inappropriate affection from the child). Everyone around me thinks M is just a sweetheart and can't understand why I think she is difficult and challenging (some of the time). I could totally relate when you talked about struggling with liking her. Sometimes I feel so much love for M and can't get enough of her. But other times she ittitates me constantly and I resent having to deal with all her issues. Now don't everyone jump on me. I knew there would be issues and we are dealing with them. But we are all human, and this is exhausting! Well good luck to you. Try to get breaks when you can.

SFBay Mom, Jump on you? Au contraire! I'm impressed there are times you can't get enough of her! My attachment disordered child is so maddening, so defiant, so bone deep disrespectful, it is rare that she is actually fun to be around. She does great in public, so I get a break then, but when she's home alone with the family, it is irritation central. Nancy Thomas says the goal is to have kids that are respectful, responsible, and fun to be around. Boy, are we a long way from that! Her younger brother and sister, whom we also have, have some attachment issues, but far less severe than our oldest daughter's. They really are fun to parent and are fun to be around. They are endearing and I want to squeeze and kiss them many times a day, and do. With my oldest, I do so as an act of will, when she does not push me away, or wipe off my kisses as if I had spat on her. I love all my children, and I'm committed to all three. But parenting an attachment disordered child can be very difficult. Anyone who jumps on you is someone who does not have an attachment disordered child living in their home, and therefore has no clue. And as the authors said in Parenting the Hurt Child, before you had a hurt child living in your home, would you have believed the havoc they could cause?

That is so true. You can go to classes, read books, educate yourself, but daily living with an attachment disordered child is a whole different ball game. And no one understands. Sometimes its the little irritating things they do that drives us bonkers. For example, my daughter just started this habit of repeating whatever we say. (not once or twice, but 20 times) And its everything we say. If you tell anyone who doesn't have AD children that I felt like ringing her neck for it, they say, "Oh yeah, my child went through a phase like that too." They don't realize that it isn't a phase. Its goal is to push me away and drive me batty. I can't tell her stop it or that it irritates me. Thats license for her to do it more because its working. SFMom - Tybee is right. If you have times that you can't get enough of her, then you are doing great. I have times when I can't get far enough away from my daughter. (and no one jump on me). But if someone's goal is to constantly irritate you and push you away, it does get to you after a while. We are humans. We have feelings. We cry.

So true about other people encouraging inappropriate affection! It drives me crazy. Of course a snuggly kid is sweet, but don't they wonder why she's like that with them? It's surely not normal. And I look like such a loser if I discourage her from smooching everyone. Like I should let her be so darling, but they don't realize it's more like a disease than a sweet character trait. It's so exhausting. I resent her so often. We never planned on adopting an older child. It just never occurred to us. Our others were all infants from healthy stable birthfamilies. And this birthfamily is a disaster and couldn't/can't give her what she needs. They planned to place the baby, and at the last minute kind of threw her into the deal. She heard about us and saw pictures, then talked to us on the phone that day, then we met her a few days later and she came home with us then. Her age is squished between Cole and Adam (9 months on each side!) and her baby brother has alot of the same issues, but it seems excusable because he's a baby. I guess I just was totally unprepared. I've written letters to the agency to say they just can't handle adoptions like this. They treated it like an infant adoption, and it is nothing even similar. Sorry to whine. I see many of you have much more difficult behaviours to deal with! Kerri

Kerri-Jean, I was just re-reading your original post. Actually, our situation is a bit similar but not as extreme, as far as M's reaction to DH. M is MUCH more affectionate and loving with me than with DH or my seven-year-old daughter C. That has been hard for them, off and on, but it has gotten a lot better. In the beginning, C was so excited and wanted to hold M's hand, and M wanted nothing to do with it. M would refuse to give good-night hugs or kisses to the two of them, and we didn't push it. Sometimes whe would be willing to blow a kiss. Meanwhile she was/is all over me with hugs, kisses, and 'I love you's. However, I have to say that some of the time I think she is doing it in a manipulative way, for lack of a better word, because she is anxious (wondering if we will keep her). When M finally wanted to hug C, it was C's turn to say 'no' because she had felt hurt before. Now they are more in sync and affectionate with each other. It is still rare that she will hug or kiss DH, and it is hard for him. But she will finally let him sing her a bedtime song, after five months. One thing I wanted to mention to you Kerri-Jean, is to consider post-adoption depression. I have posted about this issues before, and it is a recongnized condition. There are articles about it on the Internet. Not to imply that you are necessarily experiencing it. I feel that I was definitely experiencing it for a few weeks, and still am off and on a bit. If you find yourself crying easily, feeling overwhlemed, and especially telling yourself over and over that you are failing or are an awful mother, it is something to consider. For me, just recognizing it helped me feel better. I had suffered major post-partum depression after C for a full year before I recognized what it was and got help. This time around (with the adoption) I did not need medication (so far ;) ). However, M's therapist now comes 30 minutes early so just she and I can talk and I can vent. I would think you might benefit from talking to a therapist, even just to deal with your feelings about how this all happened...meaning that you had not intended to adopt an older child. I think your feelings of resentment toward the agency are totally understandable, and maybe a therapist can help you to move past those feelings. The book Toddler Adoption, The Weaver's Craft talks about sometimes adoptive parents intending to adopt an infant end up with a toddler, and that they need to grieve; that this is a loss for them. I am not wording it well, but I get what the author means. Just like an infertile couple needs to grieve the loss of having a bio child, in this situation maybe you need to grieve what 'could have' or 'should have' been. I worry that in our situation people look at me complaining and think "well you chose this". It must be even more frustrating to be in the situation when you did not 'choose' it. One last thing...don't feel guilty about 'complaining'. I feel the same way all the time, because I know there are people dealing with much more difficult issues than we are. But the fact is, this is still REALLY hard...harder than anyone can imagine who has not been there. As someone else said, all those classes and books can't really completely prepare you. The venting really seems to help. Hope you have a good day today! :)