NEVOUS/SCARED/Not sure what to do!!!

First, breathe. In, out, in, out. Have you/can you make counseling available to both of them? If so, then I'd suggest it. You may also consider directly contacting your daughter's birthdad rather than having bmom be the 'conduit' as things can get misconstrued. If you're not comfortable with one on one ask him to meet withyou and a 'neutral' third party - religious worker, counselor, etc. Now is a good time to set bouandaries and ground rules. It is OK to say: No visits if we even suspect that either you are using substances or are in trouble with the law No 'unscheduled' or drop in visits Set visits in a neutral place - shopping mall play area, park, etc. Negative contact - hostile, threatening, etc. is grounds for discontinuation of contact. Just some thoughts. Hang in. Regina

Counceling is not even an option. We adopted through fostercare so...it's not like a domestic adoption. These parents originally parented her for 14months then she came into fostercare and right before their rights were terminated they signed over their rights. It's not my responsibility to find them counseling or pay for it. I don't feel that is my place to even offer it...if I even had the money to pay for it...which I don't. My money would be better spent caring for my children...and their future and their counceling if they need it. I don't want any contact with the birthfather. I wasn't even willing to consider sending letters or anything until after that 7 year sentence was served...and by then seen how things developed with our relationship with the birthmom. Instead it's just been 5 months since he signed over his rights. It was after he signed his rights over that he wrote her saying they would be together. I always figured our birthmom would send him some extra pictures that we sent just for him....and update him on things whenever she talked to him on the phone or wrote him.....now things are completely different. I feel like it's just a matter of time before they get back together. Not saying that's bad...I want them to be happy and it seems like they love each other. I just do not feel the relationship we were going to be having with the birthmom is going to be as stable and safe. We were already taking a chance and puting a lot of trust in her and her family....now with him in the picture (when he came in the picture last time...during the visits...the birthmom fell apart....got back into drugs...disregarded safety issues...and just was a different person). I worry what will happen....wether she will again change and how much I can really trust both of them together. Why does it have to be this hard....things were going so well....now I only see a downward spiral of events... .and we might be forced to distance ourselves if things don't go well. How do you guys do it? How can you put so much faith in people you don't really know and don't have a reputation for being trustworthy or law abiding in the first place. How do you make it work, without putting your family in harms way? Without worrying day to day what might happen? I'm begining to wonder if I made the right choice to allow face to face contact to begin with...and why I gave them my address and phone number. We will be moving next month to a new home in the same city, and I'm definately not wanting to give them my new adress. I think I'm going to open a p.o. box after all. Change my phone number and make it unlisted and only allow contact through my cell phone and the p.o. box. Am I going way overboard...allowing my fears to get the best of me? What would you do? Should I slow things down and just see what happens for now? Any advice????? People always say how good open adoption is...(well..mainly on this forum..almost everyone I've talked to in person...disagree's or doesn't really know what to think). How can it be so good...when there is so much worry, stress and emotional stuff involved in keeping it open...sometimes I think...having it be more closed would allow all of us to heal...and move on to lead normal lives. UUURRRGGGG... this is all so frustrating!!!!

I can't say whether your fears are getting the best of you, only you can. respect your decision not to have contact with this person. I'm not in your shoes, so I can't say what you should and should not do. I can only give you some thoughts. I can say that open adoption can be hard at times. There are times when I want to scream. There are times when my heart breaks: when they make another decision that isn't going to bode well for them. There are times when I am sad. Like you, I would never put my son in a place where he's in danger. Danger, though, can be a tricky thing to discern sometimes. Run in front of car: Easy. Birth father says he wants to be 'a family again': Not so easy. Understand that grief is grief, whether you voluntarily place your child or your child is removed from your care due to choices that you make. The "we're going to be a family again" type statements are a stage of grief - not a kidnapping threat necessarily. There is a difference though mentally between placing voluntarily and involuntarily having rights terminated - he may not actually understand that he will not get his child back. You won't know if there's no contact what he's really thinking/feeling/saying. So understand that you're hearing things 'second hand'. When that happens, there's always the danger that you're not getting the whole truth. I also can't say enough about setting clear ground rules. Ryan's birth parents understand very clearly what is and is not OK and what the consequences will be. It's actually made things easier. Lastly, remember that what you do, you do for your child. Open adoptoin isn't about what the parents or birth parents want, it's about what the child needs. Every child deserves to have all their 'pieces' - who they are, where they came from, ethnic and social heritage. By maintaining contact, you give your child that opportunity to know all of who she is firsthand, not just who she was when she came to you and since. It's for that reason we perservere when things get tough. Hang in. Regina

I've been thinking it over non-stop since I heard the news. I've flip floped over and over again between.... Well, other than what_____ said the bmom hasn't over steeped any boundaries and she has always respected our decisions even when she didn't agree with them. Why should I punish her, just because the birth father is out. Why not at least give them a chance to prove they are trustworthy. then the other part of me wants to scream and run away to where I know it is safe(just doing letters through a p.o. box, and maybe some phone calls on special occasions). Thinking, I've already been told of the birthfathers frame of mind, I know they are not always law abiding citizens and I have seen both of them Lie in court and out....so how can I really trust them. What if I ignore the warning signs and find my family in a position that can be very dangerous. How will I ever forgive myself for not putting my family first, but putting the birthfamily before my own. Then, it goes back around to, How can I purposfully hurt her birthmother and birthfamily just because I was afraid of what COULD happen. We have just begun to build a relationship...I don't want to sabotage it by bringing this up...and hurting her feelings...or even putting those thoughts and ideas in her head. I don't want to hurt her. At the same time I don't want to make her mad...because I have been warned about her temper. then, it goes back to...well, why should I live in fear from them, and always worry how to please them or not hurt their feelings. What really matters is our daughter and our family....and although it wasn't a direct threat...it was rumor of one... and we should put our foot down and explain to them...how we will not be a part of a relationship that is not safe and is unhealthy. I've come to the decision so far to.... Write her a letter telling her that our family needs to take a break for several reasons and not have any face to face visits for the next 6 months(through the end of this year). That we will only be accepting letters through our p.o. box and we hope they write as often as possible. That we will call her (on certian holidays etc.) Then after 6 months we will write her telling her what kind of contact we are then ready for. This is something we were thinking about doing anyways....after the adoption. In fact....we've had several visits and phone calls before our adoption was even finalized and we originally told her that we wouldn't have any visits till after the adoption was complete and we were ready to decide what kind of contact was best. She would just call....and before I knew it...we were having another visit....regardless of what I had previously said. I know it was my fault...I should have been more firm....but back then I was really concerned about her...and her feelings...and I put our feelings and what we felt was best for our daughter on hold. Now we are at the point where...we just need a break anyways...to adjust to being parents of our quickly growing family. So we can, put at the back of our mind...everyone and everything else and help ourselves feel more like parents and less like foster parents still. Then after 6 months we will have a better idea how the bmom is doing...wether they got back together, and wether we can start building more of a relationship with them. My only worry is wether I should even mention the comment_____ made to me about the letter she had read. I don't want her to think I don't trust her...or that I think they are planning to do something horrible. I don't want to hurt our relationship. Then, again I want her to know we do take these things seriously and won't be a part of an unhealthy/unsafe relationship.

The simple truth here is that you don't trust either of them, at least not yet. You've watched them lie in a place where truth is paramount (court). You've seen them break laws, which is essentially a breach of society's trust. This is why a 'second hand' comment sends you into a tailspin - because there is no solid trust, only tentative, watchful, hopeful trust. So own this. Part of building trust is having complete honesty. Say to these people "I want to trust. I'm having some trouble with it. For us right now there's so much going on I don't know what to think. I'm sure it's the same with you. So let's take some time to gather ourselves, then get together again in X months and see where everyone's at." Just some thoughts. Regina

Jessica, I think your plan sounds reasonable and gives you time to think things through and become a solid family/parent to your child. You've probably read some of my posts supporting open adoption, and I still do, BUT the health and safety of your child and family has to come first. When you sat before the court and took the oath of adoption you swore you would love and protect you child. You have to do everything in your power to keep her safe not only physically, but psychologically. Could you meet with birthmom without dd present and discuss your feelings? It might be helpful to let her know in person that you need time and assure her that you will continue to send pictures and letters. I was surprised when our kid's birthmom told me she thought we should hold off on face to face contact because we needed time to become their parents, and her and birthdad needed time to heal. In my desire to be supportive of them I had not considered the pain they went through with each visit. I think it was a very good thing to cut back visits. They waited 6 months and saw them briefly, maybe for half an hour, and we have no further visits planned. They want it that way. I continue to send pics through our PO Box and they have my cell#, which they have never abused. I send a self-addressed stamped envelope with every letter so they can respond if they want. You are doing fine....you are obviously compassionate, and you daughter is blessed to have such a person to call mommy!

Thank you so much!!! ohhh...I'm still unsure what to do. I find myself writing letters (writing is my way of getting out my feelings...although I rarely send them unless I've revised it about a million times.) Part of me wants to share with her some of my insecurities, fears, anger, gratefulness etc. regarding the situation. But, the other part of me wants to just keep things simple...not really reveal all my feelings to her. Just give her a short simple note saying this is what we are doing for now and this is what we'd l like you to do etc. But, I'm not that unfealing of a person, I am very emotional and usually very open with my feelings(even when they don't make any sence or contradict each other). The thing is she has never really shown me her emotional side....other than watching her tears at certian ocassions. She's never talked about her feelings other than a short comment. Our conversations have all been pretty much group talk about stuff, not one on one talk about feelings, desires, hopes etc. All that stuff has been one sided by me writing her....but with no response from her. I'd love to build a realtionship with her(where we can just talk or write each other like close friends)...but she is the one who seems more interested in her birthdaughter rather than getting to know me. Which is understandable, it's just that we do need to build a relationship so that we can trust her to have a relationship with our daughter. What bugs me so much is that I've stated to her how much we'd like letters/pictures for our little girl. That that is the main form of communication we'd like to have with her now and in the future. She still hasn't sent one letter. We still haven't gotten any pictures for our little girl of when she was little. We still haven't gotten any stories writen down of her pregnancy or birth or first 14 months of life, or info about her birthfamily. It's like she want's contact but only in the way she wants. Which is mainly visits, then phone calls, then well...we haven't seen anything that we've asked for????? We are the opposite. We want letters/pictures , then some phone calls, then maybe a couple visits a year. There is so much more going on than just the birthfather being out of jail and the possible threat. (the thing is with that, the person who told me told me not to tell her they told me about it. So I can't really even bring it up and confront her about it, as well as give a real reason why we are wanting to back off for a while, without her knowing who said that to me(it's an easy guess). But, beyond that whole situation, I feel like we have always tried to make her happy, always allowed visits even when we told her to wait till the adoption was complete before we discussed having visits etc. But, then she'd call with one drama or another and before I knew it we were having a visit. I feel like we have kinda allowed ourselves to be taken advantage of(emotionally). I see her benefiting from this relationship. Yet, I'm here an emotional basket case trying to deal with my own emotions, my own concerns about our daughter, about her birthmom and birthfamily. Yet, we haven't seen her do the things we've asked that really make this relationship more benficial for our daughter (the whole purpose we are keeping it open). We've already sent her several lengthy letters with tons of pictures. I also paid for all the photos we had taken as a group and as just her with her birthfamily and mailed them off to all of her birthfamily for mothers day. I also talked to her the day before mothers day and wished her a happy mothers day and she didn't even wish me one(that I can remember). It just feels like I'm giving everything to this relationship and she is just taking and taking. Part of me wants to just tell her... "we've opened a p.o. box, we aren't having any visits or phone calls for the rest of the year and we will plan on writing you once a month and hope you do the same....this relationship is a two way street meant to benefit our daughter and if you choose not to write at all, than we will choose to close contact until our daughter is old enough to re-unite. Basicly, after 6 months we will match the frequency of how often you write her. (or we won't write her again until after we receive a letter from her.) I'm tired of giving and giving and still not getting what I feel our daughter needs. I just want to lay it out and say, "take what we are offering you....or walk away" Once I see she is making contact in the way we want, and we can see that the situation is more safe with birthdad, than we will think about adding phone calls, and possibly visits. I guess I can justify the no visit part as a safety issue, but the phone call part is me wanting to take a break...from actually talking to her (and possibly getting talked into more visits or contact than we want), and a way of putting our foot down until she gives our daughter what we feel she will benefit from...actual letters and info ...that can be preserved...not just spoken and forgotten. What are your thoughts? Is it ok, for me to hold off on calls unitl we see things done the way we have asked. I know if we keep going on with phone calls she will probably never write, just wait till the next phone call, and try and do things her way again. Then there is me...who feels guilty for saying no to a visit, when she now lives out of state and is only here every now and then.....(much more often than we....had hoped or feel comfortable with right now). But I feel like a terrible person if we don't allow a visit. How can you say NO...without being mean, hurting feelings etc. Knowing perfectly well, that we do have the time, she is in town, yet, we choose not to allow her to see her birthchild......uurrg...see I can't justify that (unless there is a safety issue..which right now there is). I think my personality is one where I like to please people, I like to do what I can to make them happy even if it means I'm not. I don't like to hurt anyone's feelings. Rather than staying firm and commited in my decisions as a parent, I flex. and am to accomadating. Thus, the reason why I feel I allow myself to be taken advantage. The reason why at times I feel this....FLIGHT need....so I can avoid the situation altogether. Or, so much anger that I just want to burst...then i write it all down...till I allow myself to be trampoled al over again rather than, actually confronting the problem in the first place. Well, this is turning out to be quite theraputic....maybe that's my answer. I need to finally make a stand and be firm and not worry so much about everyone elses feelings(particularly birthmoms). In case I didn't state before....we had no agreement...I made no promises...before the adoption or after. So it's not like I am choosing to abandon a promise or not live up to my part of the bargan. Thanks to who ever is still listening to me rambling....I'm so sorry I've gone on way to long. I'd love to hear your opinions or advice.

Hi Jessica, Not sure what I can add except this: It's not unusual for bparents to not send things, respond, be as 'two way' as we think they will be. Maybe she dosen't send pictures because they're the only ones she has and she doesn't want to lose them. Maybe she dosen't quite want to 'share' the early days with anyone. Maybe she doesn't write well. Maybe she can't get it together to get stamps. Some of these may seem easily solvable. Some not. She's not where she's ready to solve them differently. For now, she can call and see and maintain contact. In our case, ours is a fully open integrated adoption. Our son is 3, placed at birth voluntarily. Most of the contact though is coming from us to them. We make sure we touch base with them and the extended birth family abuot every 4-6 weeks (they live in different states) and send pictures pretty regularly. Sometimes they call, though not as often as we do. We only recently started getting pictures of his birth brother - not from them, from his Aunt. Occasionally we get an e-mail. So what you're experiencing is not atypical for any open adoption. I think you do need to find a happy medium for yourselves, where you're not feeling taken advantage of or unappreciated while still being a good guardian of your child's relationships. I wonder though if instead of 'cutting off' visits, you can set a schedule and politely decline any requests for more? So when she says "Can we get together Saturday?" you can say "Oh, can't do. We'll see you on the 25th though." Just some more random thoughts. Regina

Jessica.....Just wanted to add that all the things you are feeling are completely normal from a foster/adopt situation. A large majority of poeple I've spoken with wouldn't even consider ANY contact, one way or otherwise, so what you are struggling with is okay. I have had all of the same feelings, and at times still do. It does get better with time. I have gone from thinking about them much of the day right after the adoption, to several times a day, to occasionally now. I feel like I have a much healthier outlook. I still care very deeply about them and hope they are able to heal and become whole again. I now feel like I can parent the kids without all the worry getting in the way, and that they are fully a part of our family now. I look back and realize it is a grieving process. I went through ALL the stages.....anger, sadness, bargaining. You'll be okay, too. Give yourself permission to spend some time focusing on being your daughter's mom for a while. Take a break from this and see how things change. I even had to take a break from the boards for a while, because it seemed like adoption was consuming every part of my life. That's not healthy for the child either.....I think there has to be balance. Sorry to be so long.....not trying to sound like a know-it-all. Sending hugs and prayers your way!

Thank you both. I guess I'm lucky...our bmom is the one who usually makes the calls...and asks for visits. So, at least it's not all on me. It's just that...what she's asking for right now i don't feel ready to give..and what I'm asking for she either doesn't want to give or doesn't feel ready for. I agree we have to find a happy middle ground or this will never work. I am glad to hear I'm not the only one plagued with these worries, fears and mixed feelings. I'm glad it gets easier with time...it's just that...I'm not sure how much time I'm willing to put up with it all. But, i do appreciate hearing how you made it through to the other side. On top of everything else on my mind....comes the new problems. Which I've started another thread about. Even after my long letter to her explaining why we were changing her name and why we wanted her to only call her by her new name, and after her saying "I'm not happy about it...but I'll respect your decision." She had avoided calling her any direct name for the last couple phone calls, and now is back to calling her her birthname. When our daughter told her the exciting news that she was now adopted and her new (full)name she was so proud of...the only responce she had to both...were..."Ooohh" not an oh...like oh I'm so happy for you or oh that is so cute it was a dissapointed, irritated, awkward moment..."Oooohh". My daughter looked at me..and I tried to lighten her mood by smiling at her and being happy for her. It worked, at the moment. But, her bmom continued to call her by her birthname...deliberately..not just because she forgot..or something like that. Then, later after we had gotten off the phone I talked with R for a while and she started saying how she wanted her name to be D again and she didn't want to be R anymore. I know it had a lot to do with...just getting off the phone with her bmom...and also her response when she told her bmom her new name. Our little girl is only 3....but she is pretty sensitive to others emotions. Now, I'm starting to question myself again...and my decisions as her parent. Obviosly I want my little girl to be happy about her new name....she picked it out...she was excited about it....there have only been afew times were she would bring it up on her own that she wants to be D...then i remind her that she is D. she is RDSG. She has 4 names. Then she is excited about the whole new name again. Now, I feel like maybe we made a wrong choice. Maybe we need to switch it back for our little girl, maybe it will be too confusing for her over the years, especially if Bmom coninues to call her by her birthname. All this stuff is just boiling up. I want to write her so bad and just tell her my feelings about everything...good/bad/mixed etc. But the other part of me wants to just keep it short and simple with little explanation...or at least a positive one...until I've had at least through the end of this year to really work through all this stuff on my own first before doing something in haste....or saying something that will destroy our relationship. I already feel like she's sabotaging it, by calling her by her bname when I made it clear what our desires are and already set that boundary with her. Why couldn't she be happy for R...and for me and say congradulations or at least something positive...while we were on the phone with her. This makes me think even more that she is having a hard time dealing with all this...making our situation even more at risk, especially now that bdad is out of jail. Why did we even consider this KIND of contact to begin with????? Why didn't we just simply say...NO Visits, NO calls etc...till after the adoption is final, then make the choice to start slow, like we should have from the begining. Honestly, it's because of these forums. I've read so many good reltaionships between birth family and adoptive family for the sake of the child, that I wished we could offer that to our children as well. I don't see how you guys do it!!!!! Now, also because of these forums, I feel like a failure if I don't make it work. I feel like I've betrayed the birthfamily(which I haven't because I've made it a point to say..."I can't promise you anything". I feel like I'd be failing my child by not sticking it out for her sake in the long run. Honestly....I just can't see a long run.....other than it ending in just letters and updates through the mail....if birthmom even chooses to send letters. I also can't imagine sending letters/updates to an address and never getting anything back in return.....I know that wouldn't last that long with me, Maybe some people can do it...but not me. I don't even see how it would be benficial to my children. The only one benefiting at all from the relationship is the birthparent.