Advertisements
We have a foster/adopt girl who we hope to finalize with in April. She is 7 and is extremely parentified. We can deal with the aspects of her wanted to be in control of situation, but we are struggling with her consistant arguing and back talk. We have tried everything we know or learned about in training; talking, time out, loss of prevlidges, ignoring behavior. Nothing seems to work. Are there any other suggestions for this problem? Sometimes she is just downright disrespectful and we are at witts end. She has had two failed adoption placements before us and we are starting to understand why. She has been home here for about 3 months. She is doing great in school and Sunday school. But with us it just never seems to stop. She knows when she has pushed too far and then she tries to hug and kiss on you. Obviously, we don't feel very loving after having a 1 or 2 hour confrontation with her. Any help you could give us would be greatly appreciated.
Like
Share
Do you argue back with her? I learned the hard way not to do this with my dd who is now 7.
She's very smart, logical and can debate like a top defense lawyer!! I had to learn to simply stick to my guns and not let her push my buttons. Here's an example of how things might go with us.
"mommy, can I have a snack please?" "Yes, you can have an apple or a granola bar." "no, I want popcorn." "no, you can have an apple or a granola bar." "I don't want those, I want popcorn". "You have 10 seconds to pick one and if you do not then I understand you are choosing no snack."
In the beginning, she would use those 10 seconds to keep arguing and I would then say "times up, you chose no snack" and then walk away. This of course was followed by temper tantrums etc. but didn't take long for her to figure out I meant what I said and that's that. I've just had to learn that I give her choices but choices that I want her to have and she's allowed control over those choices. And the arguing then doesn't happen, because I'm not letting her push me into a "why can't I have popcorn" debate. There is no debate.
time outs and loss of privileges do not generally work with my dd either. My trick was to find out what was really important to her or meant a lot to her. And for her, an immediate consequence always does better than a future one, like say "you can't play this weekend with xx". It works better for her to have a consequence directly related to the offense. So say she talks back to me or is outrightly disrespectful. I might have her sit down right then and there and write out "I will not call mommy a bad name" 10 times, or something like that.
And above all, what I've learned is that I need to do all this by reacting calmly and matter of factly. It was of upmost importance for her NOT to see that she was getting to me, that she could get a reaction out of me. Sometimes I lose though...it happens!:)
Hopefully others will have some others will have some suggestions as well.
Advertisements
Thank you so much. Yes, I don't do it right most of the time I think. She has only been home for almost 3 months and my husband and I are still learning as we go. We thought we would be more creative seeing how we already had 2 bio boys, but she is a different breed :) Thank you so much for your suggestions. I will apply them beginning today. She has seen that she gets to me and I will have to put a very strong lid on that. There is so much to learn. Thanks again for your help. If there is anyone else out there who can help, we would appreciate it. Thanks everyone.
Pretty much what Crick said. It does no good to argue. Just stick to your guns, and eventually they'll learn. The learning process will be difficult on you, while she figures out you really DO mean business.
I have situations like Crick described a lot. Mostly, A will argue about not wanting to do things he knows are expected of him (use fork, not fingers at suppertime. Say "please", etc) or he will want to do whatever it is I'm doing. He'll come into the kitchen "I want to make the meatballs!!" so then I make him ask nicely. He starts making meatballs... well then whatever I'm doing now looks cooler "No, I WANT to make the salad dressing!" Or he'll want to do things himself, such as get his own medication in the morning (we do not allow this) In the beginning every little thing "Tie your shoes" or "Put on your seatbelt" was a fight.
One thing we started doing that worked pretty well was "Inconvenience Time". It works like this:
"Please tie your shoes"
"I don't want to tie my shoes"
"Okay, no problem. I'll start counting inconvenience time. Let me know when you're ready to tie your shoes."
And I start the timer. On A's end "Why do I have to tie my shoes? Why can you tie my shoes? I don't want to tie my shoes. I DON'T WANT TO! I'm not going to"..... and all that good stuff. My response is to pick up a book and read. If he tries to leave the room I sit him back down and explain his choices are count inconvenience time or tie shoes.
At the end of 15 minutes, he ties his shoes. I now have counted 15 minutes of inconvenience time. Well.... that's 15 minutes he has to pay back to me. He may have to do a chore, go to bed 15 minutes early, or give me 3 5-minute backrubs during the day. But the point is that he took those 15 minutes from me and he will now be giving me those 15 minutes back. Usually DH sends him to bed early. I usually give him "Room time" (where he has to play quietly in his room) or make him do whatever chore got interrupted, or I pick from 2 or 3 chores he HATES. (The main one: go around the house and empty all the wastebaskets and take the bags down to the trash can. For some reason this is a fate worse than death to him!)
You might want to take a look at the books: Love & Logic by Foster Cline Building the Bonds of Attachment by Daniel Hughes, Ph.D., Creating Capacity for Attachment edited by Arthur Becker-Weidman, Ph.D., & Deborah Shell, MA. You will also find some very helpful hints at [url="http://www.Center4FamilyDevelopment.com"]www.Center4FamilyDevelopment.com[/url] as well as useful articles to help you. regards
Being an experienced parent (4biokids, 3stepkids, 1adopted), I have delt with these exact problems before. My first advice would be to have her evaluated for possible emotional instablity. Two of my biokids that had these exact same issues have been diagnosed with learning and emotional difficulties. But don't take my word for it, have her evaluated by a professional. I thought I wouldn't live to see the day that my daughter and I would ever get along well, but now we do. Please try to love her though all of this. Having suffered from clinical depression myself, I can say that she is more than likely very scared and is pushing you away because she is to afraid of opening up and making herself vulnerable, but she isn't conscious of it. Again get a professional opinion. Best wishes and blessings on you and your little one.
Advertisements
I'm amazed no one has mentioned attachment disorder. Please have her evaluated by an attachment therapist (most children's therapists are not experts in this and will not catch it). Two very important signs of attachment problems: charming behavior away from the home (school, church) and controling behavior in the home. RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder) children need a very specialized type of therapy and parenting, and it is VERY important to get it as young as possible. If she has had two disrupted placements before you that is another good sign that she has major problems that just tough love are not going to solve. Good luck to you!
sally
As I was reading through this thread, I also was surprised that no one mentioned attachment disorder. Her behavior fits attachment disorder to a tee. Children with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) are often charming and well behaved with others, while being spiteful and nasty with their parents. Also the fact that she will push and push and then becoming loving and charming fits the profile of RAD. It is extreme manipulation and should not be allowed. RAD children want to show affection on their terms. They will push you away and then become affection and play the martyr when you don't want it. Time outs, loss of punishment, etc. will not work with these kids. In fact, this type of discipline an make the behaviors worse.
You need to find an attachment therapy asap. She will not heal without it, in fact, she will get much worse. She appears to have a serious disorder.
....we are struggling with her consistant arguing and back talk. We have tried everything we know or learned about in training; talking, time out, loss of prevlidges, ignoring behavior. Nothing seems to work. ....
[font=Comic Sans MS]I agree with Lorraine...based on this child's history of multiple placements and the behavior described...I would certainly start addressing attachment issues ASAP. Read up on it and find a qualified attachment therapist...ASAP.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]As the mom of an attached challenged infant who is now a toddler...I see too many red flags for a serious attachment disorder in this poor child to ignore attachment as the root cause. [/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font] [font=Comic Sans MS]Also, the longer you wait, the harder it becomes to heal her...[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]Here is a great checklist from Dr Art's website...[/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font]
[font=Comic Sans MS]A professional assessment is necessary to determine whether or not a child has an Attachment disorder. At the Center we use several tests as part of a comprehensive assessment to determine what attachment issues are causing problems and what will be the most effective treatment plan. We work very closely with the parents to develop a plan to help remediate attachment problems. This check list can help you identify areas of potential problem. This check list is not meant to substitute for a professional assessment and treatment plan.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]Circle the items if they are frequently or often true.[/font]
[indent][font=Comic Sans MS]1. My child teases, hurts, or is cruel to other children.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]2. My child can't keep friends for an age-appropriate length of time.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]3. My child doesn't do as well in school as my child could do even with a little more effort.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]4. My child pushes me away or becomes stiff when I try to hug, unless my child wants something from me, in which case my child can be affectionate and engaging.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]5. My child argues for long periods of time, often about meaningless or silly things.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]6. My child has a large need to control everything. [/font][font=Comic Sans MS]7. My child is hyper-vigilant. [/font][font=Comic Sans MS]8. My child acts amazingly innocent, or pretends that things aren't really bad or a problem when caught doing something wrong.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]9. My child does dangerous things such as runs away, jumps out of windows, or other potentially harmful actions. My child seems oblivious to the fact that my child may be hurt.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]10. My child deliberately breaks or ruins his things or other's things.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]11. My child doesn't seem to feel age-appropriate guilt when my child does something wrong.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]12. My child is impulsive. My child seems unable or unwilling to stop doing something my child wants to do.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]13. My child teases, hurts, or is cruel to animals.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]14. My child steals, or shows up with things that belong to others with unbelievable, unusual, or suspicious reasons for how my child got these things.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]15. My child likes to sneak things without permission, even though my child could have had these things if my child had asked.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]16. My child doesn't seem to learn from mistakes, consequences, or punishments (my child continues the behavior despite the consequences).[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]17. My child makes false reports of abuse or neglect. My child tries to get sympathy from others, or tries to get us in trouble, by telling others that I abuse, don't feed, or don't provide the basic necessities.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]18. My child seems not to experience pain when hurt, refusing to let anyone provide comfort.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font][font=Comic Sans MS]19. My child does not usually ask for things. My child demands things.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]20. My child lies, often about obvious or ridiculous things, or when it would have been easier to tell the truth.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font][font=Comic Sans MS]21. My child is quite bossy with other children and adults.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]22. My child hoards, sneaks food, or has other unusual eating habits (eats paper, raw sugar, non-food items, package mixes, baker's chocolate, etc.)[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]23. My child often does not make eye contact when adults want to make eye contract with my child. [/font][font=Comic Sans MS]24. My child has extended temper tantrums.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]25. My child chatters non-stop, asks repeated questions about things that make no sense, mutters, or is hard to understand when talking.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]26. My child is accident-prone (gets hurt a lot), or complains a lot about every little ache and pain (needs constant attention).[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]27. My child acts cute or charming to get others to do what my child wants.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]28. My child is overly friendly with strangers.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]29. My child has set fires, or is preoccupied with fire.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]30. My child prefers to watch violent cartoons and/or TV shows or horror movie (regardless of whether or not you allow your child to do this).[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]31. My child was abused/neglected during the first year of life, or had several changes of primary caretaker during the first several years of life.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font][font=Comic Sans MS]32. My child was in an orphanage for more than the first year of life.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font][font=Comic Sans MS]33. My child was adopted after the age of twelve months.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font][/indent][font=Comic Sans MS]If you find that more than a few items (more than five or so) have been circled, your child may be experiencing difficulties that require professional assistance. If, in addition to several items being marked, any of the last three items is check, your child may be experiencing attachment related problems.[/font][font=Arial]Copyright 2000-2005 Center for Family Development All rights reserved. [/font]
Advertisements
I want to let everyone know that I appreciate all your advice and suggestions. We seem to have turned some kind on corner. While I am not saying that everything is over and my child is "an angel" but we have started using some of your suggestions and we think she is finally starting to see (after 3 months) that we mean business. We sat her down and spoke with her regarding her behavior, our roles as parents, her role as a child and the impact of one persons attitude on the whole family. She seems to be responding. As a matter of fact, yesterday was the first day since I posted that she did not have time out......not even once. She was so proud of herself! And so were we. We instituted a "0 Tolerance Policy" with her mouthing back. The second she would start mouthing....we would simply point to the time out chair. Or if she misbehaved in school or church, we have her write 50 times "I will not________ in school." She hates writing and this seems to have had a tremendous impact on her. I think with the 0 tolerance thing as well, she sees we are not playing and that she needs to listen. In some ways, I think she likes the restrictions and is responding in ways we couldn't have imagined. She and I actually got to sit down together yesterday and talk for about 1 hour. I shared with her some of the journal I have been keeping since we started to whole adoption process. She cried and cried when she heard how much we have gone through to get her and her sister and how much we love her. Like I said, I know that battles are not over, but I believe we have turned a corner. THANK YOU SOOOOOOOO MUCH EVERYONE for your advice and suggestions.
That's great, it is funny how children actually like restrictions though they don't admit it!
A book that is really good is "Attaching in Adoption" by Gray. It has helpful information for all sorts of issues, and suggestions for attachment activities. My daughter first came when she was 7 yrs old, and she loved being held and fed with a bottle, which the book suggested. I thought it would be weird and perverted, but it wasn't at all. My dd has a big need to be nutured, she told me once that her bmom ignored her all the time, so I guess she missed out on some of the attention little children need.