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Hi everyone - I don't post very much (I like to lurk around alot, lol) but have a question for you. My husband and I have a match meeting next week with a expectant mother and father. They are not married and are teenagers. The baby is due in a few months. We have attended Open Adoption seminars and all that and feel very comfortable with the idea of pictures, letters, and visits. That being said, I think an open adoption is a relationship that needs to grow and I wouldn't feel comfortable agreeing to something that I thought would be "too much" for us to handle. Know what I mean? We intend to absolutely stick with what our legal agreement is (With regards to the level of openness) and would like to have it be expressed as our MINIMUM that we would do. Does that make sense? For example, we were thinking 2 visits a year for the first few years, pictures and letters several times a year in our agreement, with the understanding that we would certainly be open to more visits as our relationship with them progresses. I want to stress - I don't have any problem with visits, but at the same time, the PBparents are 2 hours away. So...I asked the social worker what she thought THEY were thinking and she said that the PBmom is more flexible, but the PBfather is thinking a minimum of 4 visits per year. My question is this - if they break up, wouldn't that be like 8 visits a year? More than every other month because it wouldn't be fair otherwise. I just don't thinkI can say for certain that that many visits for the child's lifetime is doable. I mean, when they get older, they are busy and a visit every 6 weeks or so seems like a lot to me. Do any of you have any advice on whether the potential birth parents are flexible on this? Or do they have their idea and if you don't go along with it, they will look for someone else? I mean, do you come to a mutual agreement? ARGH! I'm nervous and excited and scared all at the same time. Any advice would be really appreciated. FWIW, I am adopted but through a closed adoption so this is new to me. I REALLY hope I didnt offend anyone with my questions. It wasn't my intention, I was just wondering what other people's experiences have been...
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If you don't think you are able to meet their requirements, you should not match with them. There is a big risk of heartache later if you are not able to fullfill your commitment. You might keep in mind that expectant parents who are considering adoption are sometimes advised to ask for the maximum amount of contact up front so they so not have to negotiate more later when they have no leverage. I know that sounds kind of cold, but they need to protect themselves too. Whether or not they walk away will depend on a lot of things. If that "click" is there, they may willing be to bend a little. Before my daughter decided to parent her son, she talked to a few couples and said that couples who tried to negotiate contact "gave her bad vibes" about their comittment to open adoption. Good luck and be honest. Happy G'Ma
There are questions/topics that you can ask be covered in this meeting. In our case we had a match meeting to get to know each other and then later had an open adoption agreement meeting to go over contact. It's totally reasonable to ask the counselor to have everyone discuss their ideas of contact:
-frequency, type, location
-what would happen if they broke up, would they be agreeable to working things out to have joint visits?
-since they are teens now and may not have transportation, it's likely that you could be doing all of the travel for now, but will that always be the case or are they also willing to travel?
Honestly the best model I've ever heard for discussing frequnecy of contact/visits is the extended family model. Ask yourself how often you see your (extended) family, do you get together with siblings, cousins, aunts uncles, etc. weekly, monthly, biannually. Thinking about how often we saw our families really helped us solidify our understanding of our patterns of contact and it helped our babe's birth parents do the same. I went weeks between seeing my parents (who live close by) and sometimes two months or more between seeing girl friends... that's just how it is, so if I had agreed to weekly or even monthly visits that would have been out of our pattern and an unwise choice for both my husband and I. That said, there are families who have that amount of contact and do very well, it works for them.
sarahbunny
We intend to absolutely stick with what our legal agreement is (With regards to the level of openness) and would like to have it be expressed as our MINIMUM that we would do. Does that make sense? For example, we were thinking 2 visits a year for the first few years, pictures and letters several times a year in our agreement, with the understanding that we would certainly be open to more visits as our relationship with them progresses. I want to stress - I don't have any problem with visits, but at the same time, the PBparents are 2 hours away. So...I asked the social worker what she thought THEY were thinking and she said that the PBmom is more flexible, but the PBfather is thinking a minimum of 4 visits per year.
My question is this - if they break up, wouldn't that be like 8 visits a year? More than every other month because it wouldn't be fair otherwise. I just don't thinkI can say for certain that that many visits for the child's lifetime is doable. I mean, when they get older, they are busy and a visit every 6 weeks or so seems like a lot to me. Do any of you have any advice on whether the potential birth parents are flexible on this? Or do they have their idea and if you don't go along with it, they will look for someone else? I mean, do you come to a mutual agreement?
Our daughters birthmother wanted to visit every other month in the beginning but we just told her that we were not comfortable with visiting until our daughter expressed wanting to know her. She was fine with that as long as we promised to tell her from the beginning that she was adopted and to send letters and pictures often. We also started out talking on the phone and emailing about twice a month. By the end of the first year we had decided that it felt right to visit with the birthmoms family so we called them up and had lunch together for Castle's first birthday, it was great. We now plan to visit every year for her birthday. You have to be honest and upfront and I feel it is better to risk loosing the match now than later. If it is meant to be this will not cause the pbparents to choose you or not. Getting through all the decision making is so hard but it is best to do it early so that no one is suprised in the end. Good luck!
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In our open adoption agreement, we all agreed to letters and pictures twice a year for 18 years. I originally said every other month, but was told that the minimum should be in the contract. Also, we agreed to one visit per year. Dd's bmom was surprised that we would agree to that, especially every year. We have exchanged all information (all contact numbers, address, email, etc) and we're been home less than two weeks and we have already talked twice and I just sent off a bunch of pictures and an update.
I would certainly say that you have to know 100% of what you are comfortable with. I sincerely had to realize that there was no way I could live with myself if I ever let her down. Now, granted, she totally says she understands if there are time constaints or if we get busy but, even then, I will make sure that I make it easy to keep to my word.
My sister does scrapbooking and I have called her to purchase a new book to send to D so that I can create a page every other month (more or less) with milestones and she can take each page and add it to the book.
It's actually good that you're thinking all of this through now before the match so that you will be better prepared. I also understand your concern if their relationship doesn't continue but I don't think that would be an issue. You can have two separate agreements and make sure that they BOTH cover everyone's needs. For example, instead of 8 visits each per year, you may want to negotiate separate visits. You never know, they may remain cordial to one another and may not mind being together to have a joint visit. If not, I don't think they would both ask for more than you can possibly handle. It's certainly worth discussing and it may never happen anyway (a breakup).
Good luck on your match! :D
Oh, I think I didn't explain myself correctly. First off - I would NEVER agree to something that I wasn't going to fulfill. That is not my personality, and I think people who say one thing about openness and do another are deplorable. And no, I would not agree to a match unless all of us were certain of the agreement. Secondly - I meant 4 visits per year for the first 2 or 3 years, then going to 2 visits per year as part of the agreement. I typed it wrong in my original post. Our agency has said that some pbparents want more contact in the beginning when the baby is changing so much so quickly. My main question was just asking what other people have found. I have no intention of starting off with visits and then just stopping them later. When I posted about it being flexible later, I meant if the relationship progresses well (And I dearly hope it does) then we would have MORE visits. Not ever less. ANd by a "few years" - I meant a few to all of us. In the agreement, it woudl be more clearly stated. I mean, we are willing to sign the legal documents around it (which is not needed in my state) so I think that shows that I take this very seriously. I understand that they may find other parents who would be wanting the exact same number of visits. I was just wondering, for those who have been through a match meeting, if it is something that both sides tend to agree on and discuss or is it something that one side says "this is how I want it" and the other side says ok or not. Know what I mean?Thanks for everyones advice though. The whole thing is so confusing and since our meeting is not until the end of NEXT week...I have so much time to mull things over, debate, etc. Too much time, frankly. :)
[font=Comic Sans MS]Just wanted to drop in with my .02 worth. We met before hand to just talk and get to know each other. After we decided and we were getting ready to sign the papers, my counselor asked what we were looking for and I told her and they told her what they were looking for and we agreed. Come to find out it was the same.[/font][font=Comic Sans MS]Good luck with the meeting. :) [/font]
Honestly?
Don't dangle 'if things go well we're willing to be more open down the line'. It's unfair to everyone, including yourselves, and is a recipe for disappointment, misunderstanding and hurt down the line.
Because here's the thing - when this child is 3 or 4, you will not think you need to do anything more. Because at that stage not only do they keep you *very* busy but really, you are meeting all of their needs. It's at that same time that some bparents want more contact - hence a dilemma, tension, unhappiness because nobody defined 'going well' and what exactly would happen if that definition was met.
So tell them exactly what you're comfortable with now, and assume that's actually the MAXIMUM you're interested in because right now that's the only thing that is true.
If they do not choose you, fine. I always recommend that as a potential aparent you should only connect with people who actually want less contact than you because then it gives the relationship room to actually grow without strain.
Most of the issues I see in adoption surrounding continued contact are as a result of different interpretations of the 'we'll see down the line' scenario. It's wiggle room that isn't really.
JMHO. In our case, both families wanted a fully open integrated adoption, we actually see less of each other than we'd like because we're all in different states now *sigh* but by all accounts it's going well.
Regina
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Personally, I would not agree to visits in a legal document, but since you are here is my thoughts on the matter.
I agree with the posters who say agree to the minimum. If you agree to the maximum, you just might find it overwhelming...especially in the first year. Yes, some birthparents want more contact during that time, but I found visits from ANYONE difficult for the first while.
Be honest, be yourself....and if it's a good match, it'll work out...if not, you're better off waiting for the right one anyway. :)
Leigh
we're not big family folks, so it was weird negotiating an open adoption. but as it turned out, we ended up agreeing to a minimum of 4x photos and letters with bmom. Of course then we left the hospital and saw each other repeatedly that first week, lol. nothing wrong with thinking about a mininum. it's what fits your family needs. We didn't promise visits (we're 2000 miles from each other), but we do see each other so far at least once a year. I think distance is key.
also, many teenagers have no clue about parenting an infant/toddler, so they don't really know what it means for you to have visits once a month. it's part of being a teen. I know dd's bdad wanted pictures every month for 18 years, lol. our facilitator asked him if he really thought that was doable, and after he thought about it, he laughed and said "probably not". I think our agreement is now for 4 or 5x a year, but we send a ton pretty frequently.
good questions :) .
lisa
sarahbunny
Secondly - I meant 4 visits per year for the first 2 or 3 years, then going to 2 visits per year as part of the agreement. I typed it wrong in my original post. Our agency has said that some pbparents want more contact in the beginning when the baby is changing so much so quickly.
...I was just wondering, for those who have been through a match meeting, if it is something that both sides tend to agree on and discuss or is it something that one side says "this is how I want it" and the other side says ok or not. Know what I mean?
Our atty actually helped us work this out.... DD's bparents asked for 3 visits a year. We agreed to this with the understanding that if they chose to part ways, we may not be able to have 6 visits a year, but maybe 4 total (2 each) or something like that. I really can't remember exactly but it was something along these lines and they were comfortable with this, too. HTH
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THank you so much for everyone's advice. I am nervous as all get out, of course and trying to plan how it will go. You know how it is. I know they are just as nervous. I just don't want to stumble around if they ask a question. This is our first in person meeting with them, yes. AwaitingBeloved, that is TOTALLY what I was wondering. If there could be a provision about how many visits if they weren't together. The whole thing is mind boggling and I knw I am making too much of it. I wish we could have met sooner then next Thursday...the social worker is out of town until Monday though. This gives me so much time to be nervous and scared and hopeful and doubtful. I really want us to have a regular conversation...I need to stop analyzing everything. Thanks again everyone. Now if only I could breathe...lol.
You are NOT "making too much of it". We recently adopted and have an open adoption with visits with birthparents and we, who didn't consider ourselves naive, left it pretty open saying "whatever the birthmother wants", not thinking she meant every other week. The agency tried to pin us down but probably should have taken us aside and asked us to be more specific. That said, now we definitely never want to hurt birthmother by changing our minds but she is young and likely doesn't understand how much work a new baby is and wants many more visits than we feel we can do. It's hard moving backward and we are left wishing we had been much more specific. So, please, do what you feel is best for you also. Life with a baby/toddler/child/teen is hectic. Consider your family realistically.